OCI/FCI of Many Years But With Low Miles

[Jim Rogers]

Similar situation and thoughts.
I have a Grand Caravan with the 3.8 V6 (just a bored/stroked 3.3). I've ran a 2200 mile OCI and FCI over 2 years and the filter and UOA looked fine. It was a Wix oil filter.

There is no doubt that, at a minimum, I will go two years (from my usual annual changes) on both the oil and filter. That would be a 2-year, 3,000 mi O/FCI. I think there is plenty of support to do that and wouldn't think twice about doing it.

I'm also fairly certain that I could do oil changes every 2 years, with the filter change happening every other oil change (i.e., OCI 2 years, 3,000 miles; FCI 4 years, 6,000 miles). I think there is enough indirect support here for that plan that it wouldn't represent any great risk.

To some extent, the only reason I used 6 years/9,000 miles for both oil and filter change intervals was to have a concrete number as to what I meant when I said "many years," and because I don't think I would go beyond those numbers.

Nothing magic about the 6 years, 9,000 miles benchmark for this conversation.

I have a BBC that runs the same PH30 size oil filter. I've used Purolator, Wix, ACDelco up to 3 year or so OCI/FCI but at very low mileage. I plan on doing a UOA in the Spring to see how the oil looks and change the filter. One thing I have considered is bumping up to a PH5 size filter. Fram does make an Ultra XG5 version of that filter (as you have mentioned, the XG30 is discontinued).

I would put a PH5 in a sbc if it was in a truck or regular car, but the Corvettes ride pretty low.

The PH30 is stock, and it's 4" long, which is perfect in the Corvette. The Wix 51069 I've been running is 4.3", which is acceptable but puts the bottom of the filter at about the same level as the pan.

A PH5 is 5.23" long, which means it will be an inch below the (already very low) pan. So, I don't think I want to risk that.

This person went 5 year OCI/FCI:
https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/t...ock-m1-10w-30-5-year-oci.258463/#post-4190879

One concern I would have about the EG/TG is the fiber end caps. I have no issues running them for standard OCI over a year or so but have no idea what years would do to them, maybe nothing.

Thanks for that link-- I hadn't found that. Checking that guy's posts, he also says he has a car that he's gone 8 years (1,000/year) with the same filter. Said he planned to push it to 10 years!

Unfortunately, he never did any C&P's to determine the results of that experiment and stopped posting all together in 2018.

Looking at some of the related posts that I hadn't run into before, I have a sneaking suspicion that in a normally-functioning engine, time is really not all that big of a factor in filter life, and probably for oil life as well.

Plenty of hints here and there on this forum that there's no inherent problem with filter age (assuming the miles are low), and I'm not seeing any catastrophic reports that were due to a (low-mileage) filter failing because it was too old.

But, probably like everyone else, I'm not confident enough in simple "sneaking suspicions" to actually do the experiment to confirm it!

I could be wrong, but I don't think there is any risk associated with fiber end caps-- certainly not from time in the oil. I know they get a lot of negativity, but I think most practical experience says that they're fine. But, that's just another intuition on my part based-- don't have any solid proof that I'm right.

 

[SHOPete]

I have searched and found this topic discussed, but the time frames are usually much less (like a year or two) than I am considering (six years).

I am recently retired and will be putting lower miles on several vehicles, so I'm looking to decrease the number of oil changes I do. I'll be putting about 1,500 miles a year on each of four vehicles that I will discuss below.

I live in the upper Midwest, so average lows in Jan/Feb are usually below 0F, with the extremes being 5-10 days of -15 to -20F. Summers are hot, with extremes being 10-12 days over 100F in July/August.

I never short-trip and won't even start a vehicle if I'm not going to drive it long enough to get the oil temp over 212F (190-200F in the winter) for at least 10-15 minutes. Two of the vehicles have oil temp gauges, so I know how much to drive to get the oil in that range.

For many years I've done annual oil/filter changes with ST 5W-30 FS and a Wix filter on all these vehicles. I've just recently taken advantage of that awesome Amazon deal on Pennzoil Euro L 5w-30, so starting this spring they will all get that oil.

My questions revolve around the possibility of combining this fancy new Euro L Longlife oil I'll be getting with a higher quality filter with the idea that I might be able to run them both for 1,500 miles/year for 6 years (9,000 miles total).

From the discussions here on filters, it seems that many believe that synthetic (vs cellulose) media is important for a multiple year application, as is wire mesh backing, so that's what I'm looking at. All of the synthetics have very high mileage limits, so my 9,000 miles shouldn't be a problem, but is 6 years reasonable?

Same with the Pennzoil Euro L-- 9,000 miles is not a problem, but is 6 years ok?

Here are the vehicles, and the plans that I would like feedback on (and have some questions about). All of the engines have a reputation for being pretty easy on oil and not particularly picky about what oil they get. They are all still pretty low miles and use/burn no oil and have no other problems.

F150 w/ 4.2l pushrod V6, Dodge Grand Caravan C/V, 3.3l pushrod V6 (no towing; both do regular hauling but never exceeding their payload ratings):

Both take a 3600 filter, so I'm considering the Fram Endurance since the synthetic media and wire mesh backing would be what I've seen recommended for a long FCI.

Would a Fram FE3600 + Pennzoil Euro L 5W-30 last for a 6 year, 9,000 mile interval with no extreme duty and no short trips? Or, if the oil had to be changed at, say, three years, would the filter be ok for the full six years?

2 x 1985 Corvettes, totally stock L98 sbc (no racing, just normal street driving):

Same Pennzoil Euro L oil as for the vehicles above, but there is no Fram Endurance for this engine. There is the TG30, but I've seen some here say that that filter is not all that much different/better than the PH30. Seems like the XG30's have been discontinued as they are hard to find (and always seem to be expensive).

There are a few synthetic media filters for this engine (e.g., Boss PBL15313, Ecoguard S1513, etc.) but pretty much all of the synthetics that would fit a sbc either have had little discussion here (e.g., the Ecogard Synthetic) or get luke-warm reviews (e.g. the Purolators).

So, is there any filter for a sbc that would be suitable for a 6-year, 9,000-mile FCI?

BTW, there's nothing more classic than a PH30 in a sbc, and I've seen some discussion here that both the PH30 and PH3600 are pretty decent filters for the money. I have no problem with things like fiber end caps or general lack of bling factor of the EG series, so if a Fram PH30 would work for 6 years/9,000 miles, that would be fine with me! Same for a PH3600 in the other vehicles.

Hope I've provided enough information to allow a response and look forward to any input you all might have!

Thanks!

Four vehicles? Given all the parameters and constraints you have described, I would change one each year which would be four years and six thousand miles. Not time, labor, or cost intensive. Not tempting fate. Good balance.

 

[Jim Rogers]

Four vehicles? Given all the parameters and constraints you have described, I would change one each year which would be four years and six thousand miles. Not time, labor, or cost intensive. Not tempting fate. Good balance.

Actually, the plan you are indicating was the original basis for the six-year O/FCI plan I came up with and asked about here!

I actually have six vehicles, and (for various reasons) the two that I did not include in the list above will still be getting some miles put on them in my retirement. So, they are on their own plan of the factory-recommended O/FCI of 7,500 miles (which has always happened every 10-12 months).

However, in a few years, I think that those two will eventually join the four I listed above in getting about 1,500 mi/year on them, so the possibility of changing one vehicle/year was how I first came up with the idea of the 6-year, 9,000-mile O/FCI.

But I'm not sure that the other two will end up having that few on miles on them, so I just left them out of this discussion.

You say 4 years/6,000 miles is not "tempting fate" and, combined with the other hints to that effect that I've found on this forum, I think you're probably right for both the oil (a Euro C3) and the quality synthetic filter (Fram Endurance) that I'm considering for this plan.

So, yes, I would love to have a one vehicle/year oil change routine for all six of these vehicles, but would also be happy if I could do it with just the four I listed.

Thanks for your feedback!

 

[subyski]

I would put a PH5 in a sbc if it was in a truck or regular car, but the Corvettes ride pretty low.

The PH30 is stock, and it's 4" long, which is perfect in the Corvette. The Wix 51069 I've been running is 4.3", which is acceptable but puts the bottom of the filter at about the same level as the pan.

A PH5 is 5.23" long, which means it will be an inch below the (already very low) pan. So, I don't think I want to risk that.

That's fair on a longer filter causing ground clearance issues.

Since Fram doesn't make an XG or FE (PH30 equivalent), there's the Royal Purple #10-454 filter that's wire backed synthetic and 99% @ 25 microns. Walmart.com and Amazon have them for $12.88 currently.

 

[Triple_Se7en]

I have searched and found this topic discussed, but the time frames are usually much less (like a year or two) than I am considering (six years).

I am recently retired and will be putting lower miles on several vehicles, so I'm looking to decrease the number of oil changes I do. I'll be putting about 1,500 miles a year on each of four vehicles that I will discuss below.

I live in the upper Midwest, so average lows in Jan/Feb are usually below 0F, with the extremes being 5-10 days of -15 to -20F. Summers are hot, with extremes being 10-12 days over 100F in July/August.

I never short-trip and won't even start a vehicle if I'm not going to drive it long enough to get the oil temp over 212F (190-200F in the winter) for at least 10-15 minutes. Two of the vehicles have oil temp gauges, so I know how much to drive to get the oil in that range.

For many years I've done annual oil/filter changes with ST 5W-30 FS and a Wix filter on all these vehicles. I've just recently taken advantage of that awesome Amazon deal on Pennzoil Euro L 5w-30, so starting this spring they will all get that oil.

My questions revolve around the possibility of combining this fancy new Euro L Longlife oil I'll be getting with a higher quality filter with the idea that I might be able to run them both for 1,500 miles/year for 6 years (9,000 miles total).

From the discussions here on filters, it seems that many believe that synthetic (vs cellulose) media is important for a multiple year application, as is wire mesh backing, so that's what I'm looking at. All of the synthetics have very high mileage limits, so my 9,000 miles shouldn't be a problem, but is 6 years reasonable?

Same with the Pennzoil Euro L-- 9,000 miles is not a problem, but is 6 years ok?

Here are the vehicles, and the plans that I would like feedback on (and have some questions about). All of the engines have a reputation for being pretty easy on oil and not particularly picky about what oil they get. They are all still pretty low miles and use/burn no oil and have no other problems.

F150 w/ 4.2l pushrod V6, Dodge Grand Caravan C/V, 3.3l pushrod V6 (no towing; both do regular hauling but never exceeding their payload ratings):

Both take a 3600 filter, so I'm considering the Fram Endurance since the synthetic media and wire mesh backing would be what I've seen recommended for a long FCI.

Would a Fram FE3600 + Pennzoil Euro L 5W-30 last for a 6 year, 9,000 mile interval with no extreme duty and no short trips? Or, if the oil had to be changed at, say, three years, would the filter be ok for the full six years?

2 x 1985 Corvettes, totally stock L98 sbc (no racing, just normal street driving):

Same Pennzoil Euro L oil as for the vehicles above, but there is no Fram Endurance for this engine. There is the TG30, but I've seen some here say that that filter is not all that much different/better than the PH30. Seems like the XG30's have been discontinued as they are hard to find (and always seem to be expensive).

There are a few synthetic media filters for this engine (e.g., Boss PBL15313, Ecoguard S1513, etc.) but pretty much all of the synthetics that would fit a sbc either have had little discussion here (e.g., the Ecogard Synthetic) or get luke-warm reviews (e.g. the Purolators).

So, is there any filter for a sbc that would be suitable for a 6-year, 9,000-mile FCI?

BTW, there's nothing more classic than a PH30 in a sbc, and I've seen some discussion here that both the PH30 and PH3600 are pretty decent filters for the money. I have no problem with things like fiber end caps or general lack of bling factor of the EG series, so if a Fram PH30 would work for 6 years/9,000 miles, that would be fine with me! Same for a PH3600 in the other vehicles.

Hope I've provided enough information to allow a response and look forward to any input you all might have!

Thanks!

What city do you live in?
Just trying to verify the extreme average temps you mention..

 

[Jim Rogers]

That's fair on a longer filter causing ground clearance issues.

Since Fram doesn't make an XG or FE (PH30 equivalent), there's the Royal Purple #10-454 filter that's wire backed synthetic and 99% @ 25 microns. Walmart.com and Amazon have them for $12.88 currently.

Thanks for that! I knew the Fram FE's had Amsoil and RP equivalents, but since everyone was saying that the Fram version was so much cheaper, I did even look at the others' prices. That RP is not only not more expensive, it's actually a few cents cheaper that the Fram FE!

That said, I think I'm going to go in a different direction all together. Here's the story:

I asked this question about the feasibility of using a filter for 9,000 miles and six years but didn't get any firm answers-- certainly no confirmation. Tellingly, some of the experts around here that provide highly technical commentary on filters (e.g., dnewton3, 53 Stude, zeeOSix, etc.) did not provide any comment. So, from this I'm concluding that there is no affirmative support for such an FCI. Which is fine-- not surprising if no one has ever even tried it.

I have in my stash some Purolator ONE's that I got cheap in the "15% off what you can fit in the bag" sale at Menard's, and I ran into a box of 4 Wix filters in the garage that I had forgotten I had.

So, I spent about a week doom-scrolling BITOG, massively using the search to see what my alternatives are as well any way to increase the cost-effectiveness (through longer OFI) of those Wix/Purolator filters I have.

As has happened to some others here who did such a deep search, the whole process was kind of dispiriting. Both Purolator and Wix are dissed as having poor filtration statistics and/or big quality concerns. There are a few fans, but the strong consensus seems to be that both brands are victims of M+H corporate cost-cutting.

Fram seem to have a better reputation around here, with good filtration specs and quality design, but recent C&P's call into question their quality control. The recent C&P of that TG with a huge section of media missing was pretty disconcerting. Do I really want to risk having a bum filter like that installed over those 9,000 miles I was considering?

Basically, when you do enough reading around here it feels like there just isn't really any filter you can totally trust to both have good specs and build quality, plus the manufacturing quality control to make it possible to assume those build and spec qualities are actually making it into each and every filter the company makes.

So, here's what I think I'm going to do instead: Rather than attempt to use a high-quality (and more expensive) filter for a long interval, I'm going to do the opposite and use the cheapest filter I can find and use it over a short interval, but still keep the oil for the longer interval.

So, something like changing the oil every 6 years, 9,000 miles, but changing the filter annually.

The rationale here is that the Ecogard Standard filters are often dirt cheap on Walmart.com and seem to get good reviews as to build quality. As far as I've seen, all C&P's look good. They're only good for 5,000 miles and have a nitrile ADBV, but I'll only put about 1,500 miles on these vehicles in one year, so that should be fine. Labor won't be bad-- on all my vehicles the filters are trivially easy to change.

It's far more common to do multiple oil changes with a single long-life filter, but I'm going the other way and doing multiple filter changes with a single long-life oil change.

I think this might make the most sense for my main goal of saving time and money because the oil is generally the larger share of both the cost and time involved in an oil change than the filter, so I actually save more money (and time) if I change a cheap filter more frequently and keep the oil for longer.

I think the Pennzoil Euro L I have will be up to a longer OCI, but with annual changes the filter won't have to face that challenge. And, if I were to get a bum filter, it wouldn't be on the car for very long, minimizing potential damage.

So, I think I'm going to follow this plan using up all my current Wix/Purolator stock, and then will continue it with whatever cheap filter I can find that has decent filtering specs (likely the Ecogard Standard, but open to anything on sale at a killer price).

I had planned to let this thread die out since it was a weird question that was possibly unanswerable. But since it was revived, I decided to share my plan and would be interested to hear anyone's thoughts on it!

What city do you live in?
Just trying to verify the extreme average temps you mention..

I'm in eastern Nebraska, and note that I was giving the stats for the extreme years. Since I was considering six-year OCI's, there are bound to be a few extreme years for both hot and cold over that long of a period.

Last month we saw -16F, last summer we saw 104F!

 

[subyski]

As has happened to some others here who did such a deep search, the whole process was kind of dispiriting. Both Purolator and Wix are dissed as having poor filtration statistics and/or big quality concerns. There are a few fans, but the strong consensus seems to be that both brands are victims of M+H corporate cost-cutting.

Fram seem to have a better reputation around here, with good filtration specs and quality design, but recent C&P's call into question their quality control. The recent C&P of that TG with a huge section of media missing was pretty disconcerting. Do I really want to risk having a bum filter like that installed over those 9,000 miles I was considering?

Basically, when you do enough reading around here it feels like there just isn't really any filter you can totally trust to both have good specs and build quality, plus the manufacturing quality control to make it possible to assume those build and spec qualities are actually making it into each and every filter the company makes.

So, here's what I think I'm going to do instead: Rather than attempt to use a high-quality (and more expensive) filter for a long interval, I'm going to do the opposite and use the cheapest filter I can find and use it over a short interval, but still keep the oil for the longer interval.

So, something like changing the oil every 6 years, 9,000 miles, but changing the filter annually.

The rationale here is that the Ecogard Standard filters are often dirt cheap on Walmart.com and seem to get good reviews as to build quality. As far as I've seen, all C&P's look good. They're only good for 5,000 miles and have a nitrile ADBV, but I'll only put about 1,500 miles on these vehicles in one year, so that should be fine. Labor won't be bad-- on all my vehicles the filters are trivially easy to change.

There have been some quality issues in the past with Purolators and lately with WIX models made outside of the USA. The Corvette spec standard WIX 51069 is still made in the USA. I picked one up recently and looked fine and it's a model that WIX calls out beta ratio efficiencies (2/20 = 6/20: 50% @ 6um and 95% @ 20um). The WIX XP as is a much less efficient filter, despite its construction. The standard WIX is probably still a fine filter but I would be picky based on where the specific WIX model is made and if beta ratios are at least called out in their specs.

Frams have select quality problems. The TG media missing is concerning but hopefully isolated. I generally have no issues with the Fram Extra Guards for the price. The OG Fram Ultras were pretty much perfect for the price but no longer applicable for the Corvette.

Go on the Chevy forums and they rip on Fram left and right and so many call WIX as the best option. Go figure.

Ecogards (and sister brand Premium Guard) are good standard options for the price for your plan of 1 yr FCI. Probably avoids any issues with longevity (quality, time, or miles).

 

[Jim Rogers]

There have been some quality issues in the past with Purolators and lately with WIX models made outside of the USA.

Yep-- I did a search on filters around 2010 or so, and (regular) Wix seemed like a great choice. At that time, I didn't realize that the business environment for filters was so changeable, so I never researched it again. Now I know you have to stay on top of the changes-- good/bad in the past doesn't guarantee good/bad today... unfortunately.

Since I have a lot of vehicles, I can order batches of filters from Rock Auto, which reduces the shipping cost per filter. Just looking now, I can order 4 each of 57356, 51516, and 51069 regular Wix (which covers all six of my vehicles) for $5.40 each, shipping included!

That price isn't bad, and 99% at 23um seems like reasonable efficiency, so I would be ok with just always using Wix.

But, as you stated, there are questions about the quality of Wix since the M-H takeover, and since I can't specify country of origin on a Rock Auto order, I'm now kind of nervous about Wix.

The Corvette spec standard WIX 51069 is still made in the USA.

That's what I've used since 2010. That filter is interesting-- no ADBV at all, and no bypass. It's like a throwback filter for a throw-back engine! Apparently, the engine has its own bypass and the filter orientation make as ADBV less critical. Obviously, it would be optimal to have an ADBV (regardless of filter orientation), but I've never had any bad noises on startup, so I assume it's ok.

I picked one up recently and looked fine and it's a model that WIX calls out beta ratio efficiencies (2/20 = 6/20: 50% @ 6um and 95% @ 20um).

Interesting-- Bellavita's (totally awesome!) spreadsheet shows the regular Wix to be 99% at 23Um. The curve must have a steep fall-off if it's 95% at 20 um. Either way it's fine as zeeOSix says that 95% at 20um is a reasonable cutoff for filtering efficiency and I use that as my benchmark.

However, 95% at 20um is the same as the Fram Orange Can, which I can get cheaper ($4.16) than a regular Wix. So was going to go that direction.... until that horrible TG C&P showed up. That's as bad as a Purolator (and maybe Wix?) filter tear!

Geez-- does anyone make a decent filter that you can count on? Maybe not-- thus my plan for annual changes of cheap filters.

The Ecogard X5313 is on sale for $2.87 at walmart.com, so I'm going to use those and just change them annually (and probably change the Euro L oil every other year).

The WIX XP as is a much less efficient filter, despite its construction. The standard WIX is probably still a fine filter but I would be picky based on where the specific WIX model is made and if beta ratios are at least called out in their specs.

Agree- Wix XP is out of the question for me for those reasons, as well as the price differential over regular Wix.

Frams have select quality problems. The TG media missing is concerning but hopefully isolated. I generally have no issues with the Fram Extra Guards for the price. The OG Fram Ultras were pretty much perfect for the price but no longer applicable for the Corvette.

Go on the Chevy forums and they rip on Fram left and right and so many call WIX as the best option. Go figure.

Yes-- Corvette Forum put the fear of god in me about Fram. While there might have been a justification for their Fram hate 20 years ago, I think they held on to that hate for far too long. They were (maybe still are) very anti-fiber endcaps. I used to be as well, but my study here has convinced me that not only are they not inherently a problem, they might even have some advantages, so I no longer care about that.

And, yes, they have historically liked Wix. That's one of the reasons I went with Wix in 2010. I've nothing bad to say about the Wix filters I've used and would be happy to continue with them if the quality was standardized. But I hate the idea of rolling the dice on them.

Ecogards (and sister brand Premium Guard) are good standard options for the price for your plan of 1 yr FCI. Probably avoids any issues with longevity (quality, time, or miles).

Exactly-- that's why I think that's what I'm going to do.

Thanks for the great feedback-- I really appreciate it!

 

[Jim Rogers]

The Ecogard X5313 is on sale for $2.87 at walmart.com, so I'm going to use those and just change them annually (and probably change the Euro L oil every other year).

For anyone interested in the Ecogard filters for a Gen I SBC, my X5313's were delivered today. It is 1 1/4" shorter than the Wix 51069, but, despite the smaller size, weighs exactly 1 oz more. As I said before, the Wix has no ADBV at all and no bypass at all, so maybe that accounts for the weight difference?

The Ecogard may have less media, but with my new "high frequency filter change" plan described above, I don't think it matters for me. On the plus side, I definitely won't have any problem with ground clearance!

FWIW, the X4610 also arrived-- it is 3/6" shorter than the Purolator but weighs 0.29 oz more.

 

[Allaneddie]

I looked up this thread because I am now at 15 months since last oil change in January, 2023 on my 4.7 Liter V8 Grand Cherokee. There have been about 4 thousand miles put on the vehicle in that time and I've been sure to make some extended trips here and there to get everything hot. Synthetic Pennzoil and best Fram filter are in place. I have the timer set for 5000 mile oil changes and still have a little over a thousand miles to go. I plan to change when I've reached that 5000 mile mark which should be in a few months.