CK-4 Diesel Oil for old 6.0l PowerStroke?

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I ran an '04 E-350 PSD to over 250K miles with Valvoline Premium Blue Extreme 5W40, changing every 5K, and the only injector issues I had were caused by Speedway putting gasoline in their diesel tanks, and it was still running the original variable vane turbo when the TorqShift blew reverse & the company got rid of it. Even bad head gaskets from Day 1 didn't hurt the lubrication & injection system any (massive work done at 50K or so, dealer had the body 6 ft. in the air for TWO MONTHS!
 
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Originally Posted by LubricatusObsess
Not sure what "bulletproofed" means. There is a laundry list of things on "EngineBuilder" website that were design flaws, and Navistar's various & sundry attempts to fix them.
In the diesel pickup world the term "bulletproof" universally refers to the well know fixes required to make Ford's remarkably problematic and ill-fated 6.0 long term reliable. You can google and read about it to your heart's delight, but it essentially means replacing head studs with ARPs, replacing head gaskets and modifying the EGR system to prevent pressure build up. Most knowledgeable diesel guys wouldn't consider the 6.0 without these mods ("you can pay me a little now or pay me a LOT later...). I've attached a sample of what you'll find online below - nothing special regarding it's selection: https://www.fourwheeler.com/how-to/engine/what-does-it-mean-to-bulletproof-a-diesel-engine/
 
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Originally Posted by LubricatusObsess
Yes - I see Motorcraft 10W30 meets Ford wss-m2c171-f1 and is $19.68 per 5 quart jug at Wally's. I am concerned about viscosity. It can be -20 to +96 here in Minnesota. I thought a 5W-40 Group III synthetic would be best? Wally's only has this and syn blend 5W-30. The 0W-40 recommended on the back of this jug is not offered. https://www.walmart.com/ip/Motorcraft-Super-Duty-Diesel-Motor-Oil-10W30-5-Quart-Jug/36204278
And am I RI and have no problems in the winter with cold starting with the 10w30, without use of block heater. What is your son going to be using the truck for? I use 15w40 in the summer because i do heavy towing. I'm sure the 10w30 would be fine but I'm too chicken to try it. The 10w30 is much more shear stable than the 5w40 and will hold its grade through the OCI. Where as the 5w40 will be a light 30 grade by the end. FYI if it's an early 04 it shared a lot of injection system parts with the 03 model. Late 04 was a hybrid of the late style and early style systems.
 
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LubricatusObsess

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maineiac - got it. Right, I googled all those issues on EngineBuilder.com As far as I know it has not been bulletproofed. As I said in OP, 2 injectors are sticky @ 113,000 miles so all 8 are being replaced now. Supposedly the truck was not used for heavy load / often so he's gambling on the head gaskets. Not sure about the cooled EGR. He's 20, an engineering apprentice, with 5 years engine overhaul experience. He's also a poor college student taking gambles with what he can afford, so I just consult. The job at hand is what modern motor oil best fits this thing in our ambient conditions in mid-Minnesota. I googled the original O&M. API CJ oil hadn't even come out then (2003 manual). Recommended vis was 10W-30 "normal usage", only covered -10F to +90F. It routinely gets below -10F and above +90F here. I know, who the [censored] would live here, right? 40 years ago there were great jobs here. I've googled the current Ford Diesel Filter & Oil Reference Sheet, published Feb. 2019. They revised 10W-30 "normal usage" range from 0F to 100F+, 15W-40 (mineral) from 20F to 100F+, and added 5W-40 (synthetic only, to my knowledge) from -20F to 100F+. They didn't include their tirade about having to meet Ford wss-m2c171-f1, publishing that elsewhere, later. Ford doesn't seem to really know what they're doing. Navistar may have been convenient, but that whole joint venture was a mess. It is what it is. I haven't seen a reply yet to the original question which of the 3 approved synthetic 5W-40's is preferred. I appreciate all the history, but it's not really the point.
 

LubricatusObsess

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Googled into this older thread on Shell Rotella T6 5W-40 CK-4. https://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php/topics/4526887/Shell_Rotella_T6_5W40_CJ-4/SM_ UOA new oil results looks good to me....plenty o' ZDDP and Phos in it. Meets Ford Spec. Shell seems to know what it's doing in API Group III hydrocracked base stocks. Not sure how they do it at a more competitive price than anybody else (Valvoline Premium Blue Extreme). Maybe sheer sales volume? Also PUP is the bomb. Never did find out why "made from natural gas" is only an API Group III. Everything I was taught by Mobil is API Group IV PAO is ethylene compounding from natural gas. Really bugs me.
 

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Noack higher than Delo and Delvac semi … Other than extreme cold … can't understand a coal burner that can't use a 15w40 at least part of the year. I know guys who run Delo or Delvac in PSD's … Heck, know one who has the dealership put it in … service manager cries while mechanic laughs … … but don't think XOM likes dealing with Ford … Let the others have them. A brand new DMax comes FF with Delvac Super … CAT contract too …
 
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I ran a couple 6.0's for a combined 350,000 mi. And had the best UOA,s with 10w-30 John Deere Plus 50, which was ran exclusively in the ,07 6.0 after 75,000 mi. My climate is similar to yours, I,ve had to cold start at -40 and ran loaded at +90f through the summers without issue. The 6.0 prefers a 10w-30 as it doesn't sheer nearly to the degree as a 5w-40. I ran all of my OC intervals out to 7,500 mi. Without issue, and never had an injector issue with either truck. There are several uoa,s posted here in the hdeo section for reference if you wish to compare notes for one oil vs another
 

4WD

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That's interesting … is that John Deere oil on the OEM approval list for the 6.0 ? Good point on shear … 5w40 starts out with barely more HTHS than 10w30 HDEO … it's the 15w40 that's thick … especially some of the CJ blends …
 

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It certainly can use 15W-40 "part of the year". But his OCI's are sporadic and unpredictable with a college and summer job schedule. That's why my OP asked for advice on selecting one of the 3 I listed. I can't find 0W-40 anyway. Fleet Farm just announced a spring sale on Shell Rotella T6 5W-40 for $74.99 per 5 gallon pail ($15 / per gallon). I've read they bumped up the antiwear package after they launched CK-4 in response to Ford's complaints of not T6 not meeting Ford wss-m2c171-f1 in CK-4 trim. Done. I bought a pail. Modern 5W-40 shouldn't shear much. It uses a small amount of VI Improver additive with the Group III Base Stock. It should be similar to the 10W-30 mineral oil that also must have VI Improver additive with Group II base stock. 4WD is spot-on. Almost all other diesel manufacturer's specify 15W-40 preferred for good reasons. If Ford is so concerned about antiwear, they should too. In fact, now they do in the new 2019 lube chart I referenced above, retroactive to these older engines also. More indication they / Navistar didn't know what they were doing in the 2000's. I remember talk of Navistar and bankruptcy back then, and they ousted the CEO after the Tier IV debacle. Thx for the comments.
 
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Modern 5w40 will shear right down due to the injection system pressure.
 
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Originally Posted by LubricatusObsess
Evidence? See comments on HTHS tests above.
Search UOAs for HEUI engines, or specially for the 6.0. The evidence is clear on viscosity.
 
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LubricatusObsess

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Originally Posted by mattd
Originally Posted by LubricatusObsess
Evidence? See comments on HTHS tests above.
Search UOAs for HEUI engines, or specially for the 6.0. The evidence is clear on viscosity.
Makes no sense. We're discussing synthetic 5W-40 versus mineral 10W30. Both have VI Improver additive. Not comparing two mineral oils. 4WD made the point earlier in this thread: "5w40 (synthetic) starts out with barely more HTHS than 10w30 HDEO (mineral)" I searched 2005, 2004, 2003 Forums. The only UOA post I saw was a big one from 2003. https://www.bobistheoilguy.com/foru...esel-oil-analysis-on-ford-psd#Post586356 I could not open the files in the post. The key reply I saw said: "I spent a lot of time sifting through the data and concluded that there was NO significant differences between those HDEO oils. The higher wear on some trucks correlated with higher Si levels and not type of oil. This should not be surprising though, these HDEO are very similar in weights, HTHS, and levels of ZDDP. Apparently, the type of base oil does not matter much in this NA application." The modern CK-4 oils have boosted the antiwear additive to meet the Ford spec as well. The conclusion that synthetics are therefore irrelevant is incorrect when one considers the wide ambient range I described for this application over the 5,000 OCI.
 
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Rotella 10W30 or Motorcraft 10W30. Doesn't matter where you live. It WORKS. My truck is an 05, it has had plain Rotella (non-syn) in it since new (Service records show it left the dealer and went to a shop to have Rotella installed with 50 miles on the truck) I now mix back and forth with Rotella and Delo oils and always 10W30. I was amazed at the difference in the truck when going away from 15W40. I tow heavy here in Florida and it holds up just fine. That 5W40 or 15W40 has sheared to a thin 30WT in a few hundred miles anyway! These HEUI system beat oil up fast! You don't want a ton of VII's in the oil. BTW- My truck has 150k on the clock now, it has had the EGR deleted since very early in its life, and coolant system flushed and changed over to CAT rated ELC coolant with coolant filter. It has never had a valve cover off, gets 18mpg with a load and runs like new. Only other mod I have is a Atlas 40 FICM tune installed. which replaces many of the factory reflash strategy screw ups.
 

LubricatusObsess

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Pondering this unique engine some more, an analogy would be trying to pick a single engine oil to use in a Caterpillar Excavator in both the engine and the high pressure hydraulic system for the boom & carriage. No owner of repute would consider such a thing. They would use a dedicated hydraulic oil in the hydraulic system operating at 3,000 to 5,000 psi (not sure how high these days), and a dedicated diesel engine oil in the engine. I remember we chuckled at all the issues HEUI had in practical application. If we lived in a temperate climate, the choice would be easy - a straight weight (SAE 40) chocked full of antiwear for the high pressure hydraulic oil pump - to minimize sheardown deposits and viscosity loss, with the usual diesel detergent dispersant add pack for soot blowby. We live in the most intemperate part of the U.S. - ghastly hot and ghastly cold, with wide, unpredictable temperature swings. I know - move, right? Being as we're still here, I think Rotella T6 5W-40 is the best compromise as it meets Ford HEUI antiwear spec wss-m2c171-f1, and they advertise high quality shear resistant Group III base stock + VII add pack. Religious OCI of <5,000 miles. Any parting shots?
 
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Many people have told you their thoughts and you seem to have your mind made up, and did so a while ago, maybe before the start of this thread. Not sure why you are still asking questions.
 
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Originally Posted by mattd
Many people have told you their thoughts and you seem to have your mind made up, and did so a while ago, maybe before the start of this thread. Not sure why you are still asking questions.
LOL yep, spot on. He just wanted blessings from the gurus.... I like T6 5W40, I just don't like the fact that its a THIN 30wt oil within 1000miles when used in a 6.0. The 10W30 oils have proven over and over to stay in grade longer and perform just as well or better than the High VII 5W40's
 
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