The words they used were so loaded as to make it seem an injustice. Then they never say were there more people on the jet. They never say how many hours it saved. Never mention possible security concerns. Stuff like this is what I hate about the current news media. What ever happened to giving two side of a story, instead of a sensationalist clip to grab viewers.
Chinese to buy GM and Chrysler
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Yes, lets not forget that the secretary, personal assistant, masseuse, and butt-wiper had to make the trip as well.
Who cares how many hours it saved?? It's time they won't be spending at DC's most expensive restaurants.
Security? Well I guess that's valid since it's entirely possible that there are thousands of people who'd like to assassinate GM execs right now.
There isn't two sides of this story. They're too good to fly commercial, period.
Who cares how many hours it saved?? It's time they won't be spending at DC's most expensive restaurants.
Security? Well I guess that's valid since it's entirely possible that there are thousands of people who'd like to assassinate GM execs right now.
There isn't two sides of this story. They're too good to fly commercial, period.
How about I run this story.
Big 3 execs get payed to do nothing.
Instead of running there companies today the big3 where found sitting in a lounge at the local airport. There were a total of 3 execs from each company there waiting for a flight. It is estimated that the time they wasted at the lounge at their current pay rate was worth a total of around 10,000 dollars.
It is also reported that the cost of a private jet 1 way would have cost 10,000 dollars and allowed the exec to work during the flight which we estimate is worth approximately another 10,000 dollars.
In total it is estimated that the time lost to waiting for the flight and the flight of the the exec it's self cost the company 40,000 dollars. How can a company begging for money be wasting money so fast.
Big 3 execs get payed to do nothing.
Instead of running there companies today the big3 where found sitting in a lounge at the local airport. There were a total of 3 execs from each company there waiting for a flight. It is estimated that the time they wasted at the lounge at their current pay rate was worth a total of around 10,000 dollars.
It is also reported that the cost of a private jet 1 way would have cost 10,000 dollars and allowed the exec to work during the flight which we estimate is worth approximately another 10,000 dollars.
In total it is estimated that the time lost to waiting for the flight and the flight of the the exec it's self cost the company 40,000 dollars. How can a company begging for money be wasting money so fast.
Yes, because all major corporations count time spent in an airport as time lost. I don't know how long YOU wait for a plane, but I wait an hour at most. If they're getting to the airport too early, perhaps their personal assistants should help them manage their time more effectively.
These execs are getting paid whether or not they're working, so do your math again: $1100 per person for first class tickets, or $20,000 for a private jet.
These execs are getting paid whether or not they're working, so do your math again: $1100 per person for first class tickets, or $20,000 for a private jet.
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When you break a CEOs wage down to an hourly rate it makes sence for them to fly privately but also if you look at what the big 3 lost for the last couple of years, they should not be earning more than 200-300k per year. For those critical times that a private jet may be needed for secrecy purposes, a jet can be rented, after all they are trying to get some opertating capital right now, time to sell some useless assets.
Kestas
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All this talk over $25B auto industry bailout has taken the attention (and heat) away from the finincial industry, the $700B, and the waste at AIG. I'll bet they're loving it.
Originally Posted By: Kestas
All this talk over $25B auto industry bailout has taken the attention (and heat) away from the finincial industry, the $700B, and the waste at AIG. I'll bet they're loving it.
Good point.
I have to ask, and this is not directed at anyone in particular, how many people who are for the Big 3 taking it in the ding-dongs and going under are the same ones who were aghast at those of us who suggested the same of people who used their houses as ATM's and were now facing foreclosure for their stupid decisions?
Stupid financial decisions are stupid financial decisions, no?
Just wondering.
All this talk over $25B auto industry bailout has taken the attention (and heat) away from the finincial industry, the $700B, and the waste at AIG. I'll bet they're loving it.
Good point.
I have to ask, and this is not directed at anyone in particular, how many people who are for the Big 3 taking it in the ding-dongs and going under are the same ones who were aghast at those of us who suggested the same of people who used their houses as ATM's and were now facing foreclosure for their stupid decisions?
Stupid financial decisions are stupid financial decisions, no?
Just wondering.
One stupid decision is not like another when millions of people's livelihoods are at stake. One family's foreclosed home doesn't affect anyone but them, and on a much smaller scale...the mortgage company. GM's screw-ups affect a LOT of people...so many that our economy will take yet another hit..one that it likely can't afford to take. It isn't an apples-2-apples comparison.
Below is latest story from CNN. The impact of GM shutting down would be far greater than most people realize.
A bankruptcy of one of the Big Three automakers could hit American consumers hard, industry experts warn.
General Motors said on Nov. 7 that it will run out of the cash it needs to operate late this year or early next year. On Tuesday, Chrysler LLC CEO Robert Nardelli told the Senate Banking Committee his firm is also at risk of running out of cash. He and the CEOs of GM and Ford Motor are seeking financial assistance from the federal government.
Executives at GM have repeatedly maintained that bankruptcy is not an option, and Nardelli said his firm also wants to avoid a filing. But there is enough opposition to a bailout to make a bankruptcy, or even outright failure, of two of the nation's largest automakers a serious risk in the coming two months.
As a result, some experts predict higher car and truck prices, vehicle shortages and difficulty finding replacement parts for owners of American as well as Asian cars if Detroit's Big Three don't get the $25 billion they are asking for from Congress.
"Vehicles could cost anywhere from 5% to 15% more, maybe even more than that," said Michael Robinet, vice president of global vehicle forecasts for auto consultant CSM Worldwide.
Capacity Cuts, Fewer Incentives Possible
The main reason prices would likely head higher across the board is that production for the overall industry would be cut by a GM bankruptcy, especially if buyers shun GM models due to concerns about their warranties or resale prices.
GM, despite years of market share losses, is still the nation's largest automaker by U.S. sales volume, with a 22% share.
"Anything that would take significant supply out would shift the market to a seller's market very quickly," said David Cole, chairman of the Center for Automotive Research, a Michigan think tank that is a strong advocate of a government bailout.
Others say that the incentives that many automakers have offered buyers, such as cash-back or low financing rates, may also be a thing of the past if GM goes bankrupt. That could make it even tougher to entice consumers to buy in this tough economic environment.
Sales tracker Edmunds.com estimates the average incentive on each vehicle sold in October was $2,677, up $500, or 23%, from a year ago.
Mike Jackson, CEO of AutoNation, the nation's largest auto dealer group, adds that a very painful recession could accompany a GM bankruptcy and further eat into the current weak demand for new vehicles.
"The economy is going to be in such a state of shock, with double-digit unemployment, that few people will buying cars," Jackson said when asked about how bad he thought the economy could get if GM went bankrupt.
Bad News If GM Goes Bankrupt
There are some experts who believe that General Motors and Chrysler will be able to continue operations even if they are forced into bankruptcy.
Still, even if GM and Chrysler were to survive a bankruptcy filing, they might not be able to pay money owed to their supplier base. GM alone owes $28 billion to suppliers as of Sept. 30. A comparable number is not available for closely-held Chrysler. If suppliers don't get money they are owed, some would likely have to shut down themselves.
"Many of the parts suppliers will have to file for bankruptcy immediately - some that day, some two or three days later when banks sweep their accounts and put a halt to their borrowing," said Kriss Andrews, head of the North American auto practice for consultant BBK, who has specialized in bankruptcy among suppliers in recent years.
That would be a major headache for car owners, according to Kimberly Rodriguez, co-leader of global automotive services for accounting firm Grant Thornton.
She said she's worried that many replacement parts will be in short supply if there are the widespread bankruptcies across the supplier base. In many cases there's a single supplier making specific parts. So a closure of a supplier can make it difficult to get a new part.
"The first thing they'll stop making is [replacement] parts," she said about the suppliers. "That's the least profitable business they do. If the production suppliers aren't functioning, the 150 million used vehicles out there are going to have trouble."
Expect a Flood of Imports If GM Can't Survive
But bankruptcies at parts makers wouldn't just cause consumers problems when trying to find replacement parts. Because automakers share suppliers, bankruptcies in the parts sector would quickly cut into production of all brands of vehicles made in North America. That would feed into the shortage of vehicles and cause prices to rise.
Ford has more cash on hand relative to its ongoing losses and is not in the immediate cash crisis that GM and Chrysler face. But a GM or Chrysler bankruptcy could spark a cash crisis at Ford as well because of the impact on suppliers. There would also be production problems for financially healthy Asian manufacturers.
"A major portion of the supply base will be decimated. It will be a very small number of days, if not hours, before Ford and Chrysler will be affected (by a GM bankruptcy), and the same is true of Asian manufacturers," said Andrews.
Toyota Motor, Honda Motor, Nissan and Kia, have 17 North American assembly lines now operating and two more under construction. Together, their North American plants built 3.5 million vehicles in 2007. The Asian automakers will top that total this year - which is more than what Ford and Chrysler will build this in North America this year.
But the Asian automakers' North American plants don't have the excess capacity to make up for the loss of GM, especially if they see disruptions in the supplier base, according to experts.
"There's no way for them to meet demand, even in this reduced demand environment," said Rodriguez. "You can't ramp up production that quickly. We'll be faced with a massive increase in imports."
A bankruptcy of one of the Big Three automakers could hit American consumers hard, industry experts warn.
General Motors said on Nov. 7 that it will run out of the cash it needs to operate late this year or early next year. On Tuesday, Chrysler LLC CEO Robert Nardelli told the Senate Banking Committee his firm is also at risk of running out of cash. He and the CEOs of GM and Ford Motor are seeking financial assistance from the federal government.
Executives at GM have repeatedly maintained that bankruptcy is not an option, and Nardelli said his firm also wants to avoid a filing. But there is enough opposition to a bailout to make a bankruptcy, or even outright failure, of two of the nation's largest automakers a serious risk in the coming two months.
As a result, some experts predict higher car and truck prices, vehicle shortages and difficulty finding replacement parts for owners of American as well as Asian cars if Detroit's Big Three don't get the $25 billion they are asking for from Congress.
"Vehicles could cost anywhere from 5% to 15% more, maybe even more than that," said Michael Robinet, vice president of global vehicle forecasts for auto consultant CSM Worldwide.
Capacity Cuts, Fewer Incentives Possible
The main reason prices would likely head higher across the board is that production for the overall industry would be cut by a GM bankruptcy, especially if buyers shun GM models due to concerns about their warranties or resale prices.
GM, despite years of market share losses, is still the nation's largest automaker by U.S. sales volume, with a 22% share.
"Anything that would take significant supply out would shift the market to a seller's market very quickly," said David Cole, chairman of the Center for Automotive Research, a Michigan think tank that is a strong advocate of a government bailout.
Others say that the incentives that many automakers have offered buyers, such as cash-back or low financing rates, may also be a thing of the past if GM goes bankrupt. That could make it even tougher to entice consumers to buy in this tough economic environment.
Sales tracker Edmunds.com estimates the average incentive on each vehicle sold in October was $2,677, up $500, or 23%, from a year ago.
Mike Jackson, CEO of AutoNation, the nation's largest auto dealer group, adds that a very painful recession could accompany a GM bankruptcy and further eat into the current weak demand for new vehicles.
"The economy is going to be in such a state of shock, with double-digit unemployment, that few people will buying cars," Jackson said when asked about how bad he thought the economy could get if GM went bankrupt.
Bad News If GM Goes Bankrupt
There are some experts who believe that General Motors and Chrysler will be able to continue operations even if they are forced into bankruptcy.
Still, even if GM and Chrysler were to survive a bankruptcy filing, they might not be able to pay money owed to their supplier base. GM alone owes $28 billion to suppliers as of Sept. 30. A comparable number is not available for closely-held Chrysler. If suppliers don't get money they are owed, some would likely have to shut down themselves.
"Many of the parts suppliers will have to file for bankruptcy immediately - some that day, some two or three days later when banks sweep their accounts and put a halt to their borrowing," said Kriss Andrews, head of the North American auto practice for consultant BBK, who has specialized in bankruptcy among suppliers in recent years.
That would be a major headache for car owners, according to Kimberly Rodriguez, co-leader of global automotive services for accounting firm Grant Thornton.
She said she's worried that many replacement parts will be in short supply if there are the widespread bankruptcies across the supplier base. In many cases there's a single supplier making specific parts. So a closure of a supplier can make it difficult to get a new part.
"The first thing they'll stop making is [replacement] parts," she said about the suppliers. "That's the least profitable business they do. If the production suppliers aren't functioning, the 150 million used vehicles out there are going to have trouble."
Expect a Flood of Imports If GM Can't Survive
But bankruptcies at parts makers wouldn't just cause consumers problems when trying to find replacement parts. Because automakers share suppliers, bankruptcies in the parts sector would quickly cut into production of all brands of vehicles made in North America. That would feed into the shortage of vehicles and cause prices to rise.
Ford has more cash on hand relative to its ongoing losses and is not in the immediate cash crisis that GM and Chrysler face. But a GM or Chrysler bankruptcy could spark a cash crisis at Ford as well because of the impact on suppliers. There would also be production problems for financially healthy Asian manufacturers.
"A major portion of the supply base will be decimated. It will be a very small number of days, if not hours, before Ford and Chrysler will be affected (by a GM bankruptcy), and the same is true of Asian manufacturers," said Andrews.
Toyota Motor, Honda Motor, Nissan and Kia, have 17 North American assembly lines now operating and two more under construction. Together, their North American plants built 3.5 million vehicles in 2007. The Asian automakers will top that total this year - which is more than what Ford and Chrysler will build this in North America this year.
But the Asian automakers' North American plants don't have the excess capacity to make up for the loss of GM, especially if they see disruptions in the supplier base, according to experts.
"There's no way for them to meet demand, even in this reduced demand environment," said Rodriguez. "You can't ramp up production that quickly. We'll be faced with a massive increase in imports."
There are two distinct ways to look at the problem.
If you believe than the bail-out will work and that corporate and union management will straighten their acts out, then the bail-out is a good thing.
If you don't believe that corporate and union management will and/or can get their acts together, then the bailout is money urinated down a rat hole.
If you believe than the bail-out will work and that corporate and union management will straighten their acts out, then the bail-out is a good thing.
If you don't believe that corporate and union management will and/or can get their acts together, then the bailout is money urinated down a rat hole.
Originally Posted By: XS650
There are two distinct ways to look at the problem.
If you believe than the bail-out will work and that corporate and union management will straighten their acts out, then the bail-out is a good thing.
If you don't believe that corporate and union management will and/or can get their acts together, then the bailout is money urinated down a rat hole.
I vote for the later.
There are two distinct ways to look at the problem.
If you believe than the bail-out will work and that corporate and union management will straighten their acts out, then the bail-out is a good thing.
If you don't believe that corporate and union management will and/or can get their acts together, then the bailout is money urinated down a rat hole.
I vote for the later.
The unions only get what management gives them. No matter how you look at is it is the overpaid underperforming management.
...and would they really admit to that? Nooooooooo. Let's blame the economy so I can continue to afford my house in the Hamptons.
Hi,
The Unions AND Management destroyed the once dominant British Automotive Industry
Management through a lack of investment and innovation
Unions through unrealistic work practices and crazy demands
The Unions AND Management destroyed the once dominant British Automotive Industry
Management through a lack of investment and innovation
Unions through unrealistic work practices and crazy demands
The hot place has frozen over. I am on the same sheet of music as Tempest and SteveS. The end must be near.
The real problem is there is a disconnect from the public, the workers and the CEO's. No one is listening to each other and it's creating the mess they are in. My Brother is a Mechanical Engineer currently studying at MIT. He worked for Toyota here in Ontario (Cambridge) and he said the whole company works like an open forum where everyone contributes their ideas and nothing is left to chance and nothing is too taboo for consideration. Very regularly the CEO's from Japan and Canada come to visit the plants, talk to the workers and sometimes jump on the assembly line to see what everyday is like. They also visit Dealerships and sit in on sales-men/women and watch the process of how the vehicles are build, sold and serviced. They "LISTEN" to their customers and to the public and "CATER" to their needs/desires. The Amercian Big 3 try to Dictate to the world what they think is best, cry to the Governments for Tax Breaks when their dictated products aren't selling and then cry foul when the Japanese/Koreans are outselling them. They need to "LISTEN" not "DICTATE". The Japanese didn't invent the car, they just found a way to make the products fit the consumers wants/needs and this is what needs to change. As for the UAW workers, they have had it too good for too long... Time to change the tune.
Originally Posted By: Steve S
The unions only get what management gives them. No matter how you look at is it is the overpaid underperforming management.
The unions hold the company management hostage every time the contract comes up for renewal by striking, meanwhile taking strike pay from the workers who continue to work for the other big 2. The company that is on strike has no choice but to capitulate. It's illegal for industry to collude but its ok when the union does it.
The unions only get what management gives them. No matter how you look at is it is the overpaid underperforming management.
The unions hold the company management hostage every time the contract comes up for renewal by striking, meanwhile taking strike pay from the workers who continue to work for the other big 2. The company that is on strike has no choice but to capitulate. It's illegal for industry to collude but its ok when the union does it.
Hi,
in my previous Post I said this:
"The Unions AND Management destroyed the once dominant British Automotive Industry
Management through a lack of investment and innovation
Unions through unrealistic work practices and crazy demands"
I should have added that they could not speak on the subjects that mattered - a them and us mentality prevailed for years!
Then, the British Govt took over the ropes - and drove it all into the ground
GM, Ford have great products that have been developed in their far flung regions. A German State for instance has ofered to take over OPEL who make great cars! Ford in Europe do too. GM here in OZ have developed some OPEL products to a high degree of refinement - at huge cost to the OZ taxpayer who does just that - keeps paying........! For what? to develop a hybrid that Ford, GM and Toyota already have - I ask you!
GM, Ford and Chrysler need to downsize, embrace modern technologies in products and in manufacturing. And surely the Euro model of Labour relations within the Auto Industry needs to be thoroughtly and exhaustively studied for a starting point
In my close exposure to GM in the US many years ago they were like a great immoveable monolith just waiting for an avalanche to hit them. It finally has - it moved slowly for 30 years or so - it's here now!
Ford announce about three weeks ago that they would shut down an engine plant here. Today they have reversed the decision - some Business Plan!
Sad but the big three need to re-invent themselves!
in my previous Post I said this:
"The Unions AND Management destroyed the once dominant British Automotive Industry
Management through a lack of investment and innovation
Unions through unrealistic work practices and crazy demands"
I should have added that they could not speak on the subjects that mattered - a them and us mentality prevailed for years!
Then, the British Govt took over the ropes - and drove it all into the ground
GM, Ford have great products that have been developed in their far flung regions. A German State for instance has ofered to take over OPEL who make great cars! Ford in Europe do too. GM here in OZ have developed some OPEL products to a high degree of refinement - at huge cost to the OZ taxpayer who does just that - keeps paying........! For what? to develop a hybrid that Ford, GM and Toyota already have - I ask you!
GM, Ford and Chrysler need to downsize, embrace modern technologies in products and in manufacturing. And surely the Euro model of Labour relations within the Auto Industry needs to be thoroughtly and exhaustively studied for a starting point
In my close exposure to GM in the US many years ago they were like a great immoveable monolith just waiting for an avalanche to hit them. It finally has - it moved slowly for 30 years or so - it's here now!
Ford announce about three weeks ago that they would shut down an engine plant here. Today they have reversed the decision - some Business Plan!
Sad but the big three need to re-invent themselves!
Cops get paid way less than these CEO's and their able to resolve hostage situations so why can't these CEO's stick it to the unions and tell 'em the fat lady is singing! DAMMIT!
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