Chinese tire quality
- Thread starter measureman
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My Nankang tires (rated 50,000 miles) are half worn 6 32nds at only 18,000 miles despite rotations and easy driving. I'll be lucky to get 35,000 miles and that's if I kept them all the way to 2 32nds which I doubt I will.
The way a tire guy explained it to me, is that the Chinese and other off brand Asian produced tires, are better than Michelin tires tires of 20 years ago. He said the difference is in materials and manufacturing techniques, from then, until now, The cost difference now is related to labor and the brand names can command more based on reputation.
I haven't owned any Chinese tires. I have owned a set of the Ohtsu brand, which were so loud, that after 6 months I got rid of them. I upgraded in price somewhat to a sub-brand of Hankook, Laufenn, which I have been very pleased with. Up until me being retired, I always drove Michelins. My miles driven have reduced drastically, and I have no need to drive in the rain or snow anymore. In the climate I live in, that is easily arranged. The other thing is the wheel sizes of modern cars have made the price of premium tires too expensive, for someone who drives 5,000 miles a year on dry pavement.
I haven't owned any Chinese tires. I have owned a set of the Ohtsu brand, which were so loud, that after 6 months I got rid of them. I upgraded in price somewhat to a sub-brand of Hankook, Laufenn, which I have been very pleased with. Up until me being retired, I always drove Michelins. My miles driven have reduced drastically, and I have no need to drive in the rain or snow anymore. In the climate I live in, that is easily arranged. The other thing is the wheel sizes of modern cars have made the price of premium tires too expensive, for someone who drives 5,000 miles a year on dry pavement.
OVERKILL
$100 Site Donor 2021
We have a tire engineer on the board, @CapriRacer who can comment on this directly.
I'm somewhat skeptical of that claim, the LTX was an incredibly popular tire 20 years ago and probably better than any Chinese tire you can buy currently. Now, better than some other tires on the market? Probably. I'm sure there are Chinese tires that are far better than the Goodyear Eagle Touring that came on our RAM 1500. Those were downright SCARY in the rain and wore out rapidly.
Here's the way I understand this:
Some time in the past (best guess = 1990's), the Chinese government offered a deal with virtually every manufacturer in the world: Build a factory in China with Chinese financing, buy equipment from what ever source the manufacturer deemed appropriate, but the Chinese would require Chinese labor and SOME Chinese management AND (and this is the big one!) the manufacturer would receive payment in the form of whatever the factory made - that is no money, just goods. The catch was that at some point in the future, the arrangement could change and the factory and its output would belong to the Chinese financiers - some of which was the Chinese government. The original manufacturer would be allowed to negotiate new terms, but this was not guaranteed.
Many manufacturers took them up on that offer - most didn't as they saw that this was a ploy to steal technology.
Eventually the Chinese acquired enough expertise to start their own factories. They weren't competitive on quality and technology, but they were competitive on price.
But just like the Japanese, and later the Koreans, the Chinese figured out how to design and manufacture products that were reasonably competitive for the price point. They continue to improve and will continue to improve using the same techniques EVERY manufacturer does - copying the competition and a bit of innovation.
Side note: I expect the next cheap labor market to follow this pattern is India. We already see signs of their emergence into the global market place. My guess is that after that, we'll see Africa.
Another side note: I could probably work out an explanation of where Mexico, Maylasia, Thailand, South America, etc. fit into the picture.
I disagree that Chinese products are the same "quality" as mainstream products of 20 years ago. I think there is a different way to express this.
Chinese products do not command the price that mainstream products command. This puts them in a position where they have to compromise "quality" in both technical innovation as well as part to part consistency. They are getting better, but have a way to go, and their position in the market place dictates what they can do.
To give you an example from real life: When Michelin entered the US market in the 1960's, they were clearly the industry leader. Not only did their products have technology beyond the rest of the industry, but their "quality" (as in consistency from part to part) was far ahead. As a result they could command a premium price.
The technology required the rest of the industry to do a lot of research, but they eventually caught up. But it is the area of part to part consistency, where the story gets interesting. (BTW, this is what most of us who worked for a manufacturer defined "quality".)
How does Michelin make tires that don't have any balance issues? Are they that much better at manufacturing?
No!! They inspect "quality" into the products and reject the worst (say) 10%. Since they get more than a 10% price for their product, that works out. They used to get MORE $$$, but the market no longer values the Michelin products that superior, so the price differential is smaller than it used to be.
The Chinese are playing this game, but at the moment they can't reject that many, so they have a bad reputation. That will change in much the same way post WW2 Japanese products were deemed poor quality, but today that perception is different.
Thanks for this excellent summary!
This "price dictates quality and quality dictates price" spiral eventually props up and dooms a lot of companies. All it takes is a wall street bean counter running the company on past reputation to ruin it forever, and it takes a visionary leader to do the right thing and say no junk, tighten the belt for a long time, to get back on track before the company gets the reward in profits.
This is one reason I'm wondering if "blem" tires are really "blem" or marginal defective beyond cosmetic.
About the "the manufacturer would receive payment in the form of whatever the factory made", I heard it was due to China trying not to lose its own foreign currency reserve and cause a currency crisis back in the days. They would, like many former soviet nations, have very tight control on its own currency so they are sheltered from international financial crisis causing "bank run" on the nation. Some gov owned factory would have limited output due to gov sources ran out of materials, and then many innovative "managements" or corrupted officials would use smugglers for raw materials, do manufacturing / farming, send the output to the material provider as payment, send some production to the gov to meet the quota, and then pocket some of the profit from the excess output, bribe other gov officials, pay their employee bonus to motivate them, and get a win win win win win situation out of it.
Sometimes they get busted though, and depending on their political alliance they can get pardoned for medical reasons after a few years of jail, or get executed right after the trial.
One example I know was gov employee uses gov vehicles for "ubering" during weekends, pay for gas and maintenance out of the "tips" they get. Another example I know was a cigerette factory / tobacco farm work around their chemical fertilizer import ban (food crops get priority, not tobacco) and quota by smuggling fertilizer with fishing boat from oversea, and pay them with cigarettes they produced.
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Having owned Michelins for almost 40 years, I am also skeptical of that claim. (Also many other brands).
Like you I've also had American branded made stinkers, like Goodyear Wranglers that wore like iron wheels, and had traction like iron wheels.
The LTX was, and is a whole series of tires. I owned the LTX MS/2, which was a fabulous tire, but it was very heavy for its category.
That's every business-- either trying to build brand equity by delivering a quality product at a competitive price, or cashing it out by cutting corners and coasting on a previous reputation. You'll see BITOG shocked, SHOCKED that their "friends" at Walmart, Amazon, Advance Auto aren't giving stuff away below cost anymore.
Someone here complained that milk is no longer $1/gal. (It cost the dairy farmer $1 to break even)
OK, this thread is timely for me. I want to get 4 new tires for my Sedona van. I went into a regional chian tire shope that I have used in the past. The sales man brings me right to the "Economy" tire for about $100 per. The brand was Westlake which I never have heard of. He gave me the sales pitch which was. they are a 50k mile all season radial tire. Great value and will do everything well enough and they have very few complaints or issues with them. Yada Yada. The side wall Ratings were 500 A-A. By the way he told me those ratings are not relevent when comparing to different brands. Of course i went home and looked them up. They are Chinese. Not a lot of info on them but what little I found was not all that impressive as an all season radial. Going up to the next level is about a $40 jump per tire and Still brands I have not heard of. Asian tires. I dont mind paying up to $130. Maybe $140 if a super value. At that price point what is a decent All Season Radial? I see some saying the Milestar is a good budget option? Any others I may want to consider at this price point.
OVERKILL
$100 Site Donor 2021
Have you checked TireRack? I plugged in 2014 Sedona and got a tire size of 235/60R17.
Khumo Solus TA11 was $142.00
Hankook Kinergy ST was $143.99
Yokohama Avid Touring-S was $146.89
Go up a few bucks and the General Altimax RT43, which many on here really like, is $158.99.
Conti/Michelin are probably too far out of your price range, but the above tires are all decent options.
Yes, That was one of the first places I looked. My size is 225/70/16. The Altimax is out of stock. Good to know so many car people like them. Thanks for the endorsements on the other 3 options.
I see a lot of Westlake(as well as LingLong/Leao) in the Bay Area, especially on Ubers/Lyfts, local rentals(Hertz Local Edition and Zipcar) and older cars and they seem to be pushed by the local tire shops. I can’t make a judgement call, they should be decent on dry ground but where Chinese tires will fall short is treadlife and wet/winter traction.
Milestar seems to be the better of the Chinese, I’ve been seeing those sold at dealerships as a “value” tire - but their Patagonia line seems to be popular with the 1980s Toyota truck/4Runner and Jeep Wrangler crowd. I’d take a gamble on the Milestars.
You’ll see a lot of Asian tires in the sub-$100 category for your size - Westlake/LingLong/Leao, Milestar, Sailun, Lionhart, Otani are the most common but also Nexen(Songwoo Tire), Hankook’s Laufenn line, the 3rd tier Sumitomo brands(Doral, Aspen, Ohtsu), and Michelin’s Riken/Uniroyal brands are also there. Go up to $100-130 and you’ll see Hankook, Kumho, Yokohama, Sumitomo and their Falken brand, Toyo/Nitto and Conti’s General brand.
The local shop I visited also had Fuzion. What is your take on them?......If they are not any good as an all season radial I will wait until the GT Altimax is available.
Tirerack has the General Altimax RT43 in size 225/70r16 in stock. Plus there is a mail in rebate on a set of 4. I’d skip any of these off brands. It’s not worth gambling with something like tires. They are expensive and a pain to change if you don’t like them.
Fusion is Bridgestone’s “value” line for the US AFAIK, but lately those seem to be made in China and not at their plants in Indonesia or Thailand - and Firestone stores sell Primewell as their “cheap” tire these days. Pass. I’d wait for the RT43s.
That's how Giti (GT Radial) got started, in Singapore.
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So...you must have some sort of PROOF of this claim...right?
