Chinese Michelin Pilot Sport 5

[SaberOne]

From what I heard, the PS5’s were initially targeted to OEM market with aftermarket sales to occur later in the year. Tire Rack is usually behind Discount Tire when comes to availability, or at least that’s my experience.

 

[michael007]

FWIW, blackcircles doesn't have them, either, and Blackcicrcles is owned by Michelin

blackcircles UK has 751 reviews for them so lots of stock going there

https://www.blackcircles.com/tyres/brands/michelin/pilot-sport-5#anchorAllReviews

 

[nthach]

I think were talking about the same thing. The Chinese plant is likely the same as any other tire plant - maybe even more modern.

When everything runs smoothly there is likely no problem.

When there is a problem the question becomes what to do about it, and if whoever is in charge follows Michelins values or Chinese custom.

Not to say US factories can't make crap also, because they do as well sometimes.

Michelin has been in China for a while - the Warrior Chinesium Discount Tire sold was made by a then JV partner at the time. Bridgestone also is in China.

If the plant isn’t a JV partner with the state, they can do what ever they want.

 

[SC Maintenance]

Michelin has been in China for a while - the Warrior Chinesium Discount Tire sold was made by a then JV partner at the time. Bridgestone also is in China.

If the plant isn’t a JV partner with the state, they can do what ever they want.

I am pretty sure its just about impossible to own a manufacturing plant in China without a JV. You can own other businesses outright - like a sales entity for example. No expert.

https://www.michelin.com/en/press-r...ill contribute,million) to the joint venture.

 

[michael007]

I am pretty sure its just about impossible to own a manufacturing plant in China without a JV. You can own other businesses outright - like a sales entity for example. No expert.

https://www.michelin.com/en/press-r...ill contribute,million) to the joint venture.

So the joint venture from your article was from 2011 and they ended it in 2017.

https://www.moderntiredealer.com/in...elin-ends-warrior-tire-joint-venture-in-china

Could be wrong but they say in the second paragraph of the Chinese version of wikipedia that the factory became a fully foreign owned enterprise:

Michelin's China website says they invested $1.5 billion in the newest factory opened in 2013:

 

[CKN]

The bottom line is that you are not going to get an inferior product from China with Michelin Tires. I don't agree with the OP on how he is skirting the Canadian system-but reaping the benefits. However he is not riding on "death tires" either.

Again-those ties are sent all over the world from that plant!

 

[michael007]

Michelin's China website says they invested $1.5 billion in the newest factory opened in 2013:

I'm not knowledgable in this sector but in 2021, approximately 80% of Nokian's passenger car tires were produced in Russia.

When Nokian left Russia, they sold their operations for 314 million USD.

With this info, $1.5 billion seems like a big number for a factory

EDIT:
Nokian's new factory in Dayton Tennessee, built in 2017 cost 360 million.

https://www.nokiantyres.com/daytonfactory/

 

[SC Maintenance]

So the joint venture from your article was from 2011 and they ended it in 2017.

https://www.moderntiredealer.com/in...elin-ends-warrior-tire-joint-venture-in-china

Could be wrong but they say in the second paragraph of the Chinese version of wikipedia that the factory became a fully foreign owned enterprise:

View attachment 154803

Michelin's China website says they invested $1.5 billion in the newest factory opened in 2013:
View attachment 154804

The way I read it - The Michelin Shenyang Tire Co. Ltd is the sales, marketing and R&D side of Michelin in China- which can be a WFOE.

Michelin Group, Shanghai Tire and Rubber Group (STRC), and Other Shareholders formed Shanghai Michelin Tire Pulley Company - (SMW) - and began producing tires under the michelin brand in 2002. So manufacturing is a joint venture?

Again, I am not an expert, If Michelin truly owned their own everything, why would they partner with all these other people? Maybe I am misreading your post - your text is small, my eyes are old. Do you have an actual link I can read not a photo?

 

[michael007]

The way I read it - The Michelin Shenyang Tire Co. Ltd is the sales, marketing and R&D side of Michelin in China- which can be a WFOE.

Michelin Group, Shanghai Tire and Rubber Group (STRC), and Other Shareholders formed Shanghai Michelin Tire Pulley Company - (SMW) - and began producing tires under the michelin brand in 2002. So manufacturing is a joint venture?

Again, I am not an expert, If Michelin truly owned their own everything, why would they partner with all these other people? Maybe I am misreading your post - your text is small, my eyes are old.

Yes, originally it was a joint venture.

Found an old financial times article which says:
In 2008 Shanghai Michelin Warrior Tyre Company was among the worst-performing Michelin factories worldwide. The seven-year-old organisation was a joint venture between Shanghai Tyre and Rubber Company, a Chinese state-owned enterprise, and the French tyremaker.

Why did they originally partner with them?
The venture deal appeared to be lucrative because it would enable Michelin to access STRC’s distribution channel and to serve its existing customers.

But then in 2017, they ended their warrior joint venture and it seems like they're a wholly owned enterprise now.

From what I understand, Michelin (China) Investment Co., Ltd. is the sales, marketing and R&D side of Michelin in China.

Michelin Shenyang Tire Co. Ltd is the production side and it is also wholly owned.

----------------------------------------------------

Found more official info written by Michelin China:
Since entering China in 1988, the business has grown rapidly. Michelin has established two wholly-owned enterprises in Shenyang and Shanghai, one joint venture, a research and development center, a headquarters in Shanghai, and a representative office in Hong Kong. Michelin currently has more than 6,800 employees in China, and the number is still rising. Due to the rapid development of the company's business, we are looking for talents from the society.

With its fast business growth in China , Michelin has established 2 WOFEs in Shenyang and Shanghai, a JV, a Research & Development Center and head office in Shanghai as well as a representative office in Hongkong since 1988. In Taiwan, Michelin Group established Michelin Tire Taiwan Co., Ltd . Till Now, we count approximately 6800 employees in PRC The fast developing business creates more exciting job opportunities for highly committed and career-oriented talents to join our team in China.

-------------

Maybe I am misreading your post - your text is small, my eyes are old. Do you have an actual link I can read not a photo?

Here's a link to the screenshot from the previous post, should automatically translate using google:
https://wiki-mbalib-com.translate.goog/wiki/米其林?_x_tr_sl=auto&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=en&_x_tr_pto=wapp

 

[Opelman]

I had a poor experience with China tires on a school bus fleet at work. Hankook 11R 22.5 AH 12 steer tires, used the Korean produced units with no problems. Production shifted to China and the front ends would shake like no tomorrow no matter what balancing technique was used. Even tried a competing vendor to balance, tires were crap from a drive ability standpoint. Went with Firestone and the problem was solved instantly. Kumho same deal, no problem. I will be avoiding China tires if at all possible.

 

[michael007]

I had a poor experience with China tires on a school bus fleet at work. Hankook 11R 22.5 AH 12 steer tires, used the Korean produced units with no problems. Production shifted to China and the front ends would shake like no tomorrow no matter what balancing technique was used. Even tried a competing vendor to balance, tires were crap from a drive ability standpoint. Went with Firestone and the problem was solved instantly. Kumho same deal, no problem. I will be avoiding China tires if at all possible.

blackcircles UK has 751 reviews for them so lots of stock going there

https://www.blackcircles.com/tyres/brands/michelin/pilot-sport-5#anchorAllReviews

average rating of 4.8/5.

The bottom line is that you are not going to get an inferior product from China with Michelin Tires. However he is not riding on "death tires" either.

Again-those ties are sent all over the world from that plant!

at least when it comes to these tires, the data doesn't lie.

 

[SC Maintenance]

Yes, originally it was a joint venture.

Found an old financial times article which says:
In 2008 Shanghai Michelin Warrior Tyre Company was among the worst-performing Michelin factories worldwide. The seven-year-old organisation was a joint venture between Shanghai Tyre and Rubber Company, a Chinese state-owned enterprise, and the French tyremaker.

Why did they originally partner with them?
The venture deal appeared to be lucrative because it would enable Michelin to access STRC’s distribution channel and to serve its existing customers.

But then in 2017, they ended their warrior joint venture and it seems like they're a wholly owned enterprise now.

From what I understand, Michelin (China) Investment Co., Ltd. is the sales, marketing and R&D side of Michelin in China.

Michelin Shenyang Tire Co. Ltd is the production side and it is also wholly owned.

----------------------------------------------------

Found more official info written by Michelin China:
Since entering China in 1988, the business has grown rapidly. Michelin has established two wholly-owned enterprises in Shenyang and Shanghai, one joint venture, a research and development center, a headquarters in Shanghai, and a representative office in Hong Kong. Michelin currently has more than 6,800 employees in China, and the number is still rising. Due to the rapid development of the company's business, we are looking for talents from the society.

With its fast business growth in China , Michelin has established 2 WOFEs in Shenyang and Shanghai, a JV, a Research & Development Center and head office in Shanghai as well as a representative office in Hongkong since 1988. In Taiwan, Michelin Group established Michelin Tire Taiwan Co., Ltd . Till Now, we count approximately 6800 employees in PRC The fast developing business creates more exciting job opportunities for highly committed and career-oriented talents to join our team in China.

-------------


Here's a link to the screenshot from the previous post, should automatically translate using google:
https://wiki-mbalib-com.translate.goog/wiki/米其林?_x_tr_sl=auto&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=en&_x_tr_pto=wapp

I don't read it the same way. It is language is cloudy at best - might be google translate making it not too clear though.

I was searching, and I found this 2020 article that claims the Tesla factory in China is the only 100% foreign owned factory, so that sort of backs into the answer, if this article is legitimate.

https://cleantechnica.com/2020/09/2...ned-factory-in-china-is-a-big-deal-heres-why/

"Tesla’s Gigafactory 3 in Shanghai is 100% owned by Tesla, an American company, and this is an incredibly big deal. “I think that something that’s quite noteworthy here is Tesla’s the only foreign manufacturer to have a 100% owned factory in China,” Elon said just after praising the Tesla China team for its fast pace."

Again, at this point it may not matter, but I do think owning your own factory in China isn't really a thing. Paying for the factory is different than owning one. HaHa.

 

[michael007]

"Tesla’s Gigafactory 3 in Shanghai is 100% owned by Tesla, an American company, and this is an incredibly big deal. “I think that something that’s quite noteworthy here is Tesla’s the only foreign manufacturer to have a 100% owned factory in China,” Elon said just after praising the Tesla China team for its fast pace."

Again, at this point it may not matter, but I do think owning your own factory in China isn't really a thing. Paying for the factory is different than owning one. HaHa.

This 2007 article about joint ventures says Michelin Shenyang Tire was wholly owned back then so unless something has changed:
https://www.cfo.com/strategy/2007/10/high-maintenance/

"Xue also points out that Michelin’s own wholly owned tire maker in China, Michelin Shenyang Tire, is making money."

 

[michael007]

I think I figured it out. Elon was misleading (surprise, surprise..)

They're the first foreign owned automaker but not the first foreign owned factory.

-----------------------

I was searching, and I found this 2020 article that claims the Tesla factory in China is the only 100% foreign owned factory, so that sort of backs into the answer, if this article is legitimate.

https://cleantechnica.com/2020/09/2...ned-factory-in-china-is-a-big-deal-heres-why/

From the article you posted:
A little over a year ago, I wrote this article for CleanTechnica, noting that Tesla was winning the US–China trade war. Hyperchange’s Gali Russell had pointed out that Elon had secured the deal with China for the factory in the heat of the trade war that Trump had started with China. Let me emphasize this: during a big trade war between the US and China, an American company secured the only foreign-owned factory in China.

“Until now, every single car sold in China was built by a Chinese automotive manufacturer or built by a joint venture between a foreign auto company and a domestic partner,” said Gali in his video.

 

[SC Maintenance]

This 2007 article about joint ventures says Michelin Shenyang Tire was wholly owned back then so unless something has changed:
https://www.cfo.com/strategy/2007/10/high-maintenance/

"Xue also points out that Michelin’s own wholly owned tire maker in China, Michelin Shenyang Tire, is making money."

Michelin Shenyang tire was / is?? the sales and marketing arm. Not the factory.

Like I said, the verbiage is very cloudy. Too many different holding companies.

My limited understanding is that its very difficult to actually own a factory in China without a JV, because the CCP want so steal your tech.

You can own a sales office or a R&D function, or a shell company. That's the investment vehicle. That vehicle then forms a JV with someone in China to open a factory, which the foreigner mostly pays for. Thats my understanding of China. Happy to be proven wrong, but you would think it would be pretty easy to find, but it isn't.

Big company marketing propoganda. They want you to think its a good old western company that just happens to be doing business in China so you still buy there crap, and don't know you have been sold down the river to the CCP. But we have been.

I think I figured it out. Elon was misleading (surprise, surprise..)

The article I posted clearly says Factory. If the CEO of one of the largest publicly traded companies lied at a shareholder meeting, you wouldn't be hearing about it here for the first time. The SEC is no stranger for going after Musk, they would have been all over it.

 

[michael007]

Michelin Shenyang tire was / is?? the sales and marketing arm. Not the factory.

Like I said, the verbiage is very cloudy. Too many different holding companies.

My limited understanding is that its very difficult to actually own a factory in China without a JV, because the CCP want so steal your tech.

You can own a sales office or a R&D function, or a shell company. That's the investment vehicle. That vehicle then forms a JV with someone in China to open a factory, which the foreigner mostly pays for. Thats my understanding of China. Happy to be proven wrong, but you would think it would be pretty easy to find, but it isn't.

Big company marketing propoganda. They want you to think its a good old western company that just happens to be doing business in China so you still buy there crap, and don't know you have been sold down the river to the CCP. But we have been.


The article I posted clearly says Factory. If the CEO of one of the largest publicly traded companies lied at a shareholder meeting, you wouldn't be hearing about it here for the first time. The SEC is no stranger for going after Musk, they would have been all over it.

https://adventurefortwo.wordpress.com/2013/07/31/shenyang-2/

I agree the verbiage is cloudy but it makes sense to me.

The factory is in Shenyang. Michelin Shenyang Tire Co. Ltd is the current, wholly owned production side.

They had two production sides in the past:
-Michelin Shenyang Tire Co. Ltd
-Shanghai Michelin Warrior Tyre Company (JV)

Michelin (China) Investment Co., Ltd. is the sales, marketing and R&D side of Michelin in China and is located in Shanghai.

You're free to do your own research on what Elon Musk said but I can't find any information other than the article you posted. It seems they misquoted him or he was misleading.

-----------------------------

Here's how CBS phrased it:
"Tesla signed a deal Tuesday to build its first factory outside the U.S. in Shanghai, making it the first wholly foreign-owned automaker in China."
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/elon-musk-tesla-china-factory/

Reuters:
The Shanghai factory is wholly owned by Tesla and is the first and only foreign passenger car plant in China exempt from being operated by a joint venture.
https://www.reuters.com/business/au...ai-factory-capacity-beijing-daily-2021-11-26/

 

[michael007]

Big company marketing propoganda. They want you to think its a good old western company that just happens to be doing business in China so you still buy there crap, and don't know you have been sold down the river to the CCP. But we have been.

Found 3 sources saying the production has been fully owned by Michelin since 2003.

https://www.tyrepress.com/2005/06/michelin-expands-production-in-shenyang/
The Michelin Shenyang Tyre Co was the first joint venture launched by Groupe Michelin Group in China. It became a solely owned venture of Michelin in 2003,

https://www.brandsearch.superbrands...na-volume-1/66823/china-volume-1-michelin.pdf
The four joint ventures deals were finally completed on January 1st 2002 and the company became a foreign investment enterprise on August 1 2003

https://www.cfo.com/strategy/2007/10/high-maintenance/
"Xue also points out that Michelin’s own wholly owned tire maker in China, Michelin Shenyang Tire, is making money."

 

[Jetronic]

The better question is why anyone would want Pilot Sport 5. It’s not as sporty as PS4S but it’s still a summer tire with all the drawbacks. The PS AS4 seems like a better idea if you’re stepping down from the PS4S. It’s not any cheaper than PS4S either. For a slightly cheaper summer tire I’d look at the Continental ExtremeContact Sport 02 if in North America.

Don’t get me wrong, it’s a good tire, but I don’t know why it exists. It’s occupying a category almost on its own as far as I can tell.

Because 3 season tyres is only a thing in north america?

 

[Jetronic]

I wasn't very impressed with my experience running the Pilot Sport 4, hopefully the Pilot Sport 5 is better.

Longer lasting seems the main difference when I had a brief look at them

 

[michael007]

Longer lasting seems the main difference when I had a brief look at them

I'm starting to feel like a Michelin employee lately.

More grip seems to be a popular comment