Chinese EV models

It would be naive to think that BYD and Nio would think they can just easily build a brand and start selling their EVs in the US without a fight. I think that's either just a "see I told you they are not fair" kind of deal or they just want to prove to their own internal market that "hey this is export grade so it must be good". They can probably sell a few a year and have enough publicity for their own internal markets.

Will their EV be good? I think it would be better than their gas car because they can't really build their own engine well without import technology yet. Most of their gas cars engines other than a few Mitsubishi clones are just not that good. EV motors are pretty straight forward and they did the right thing in focusing on battery, nuke, and transmission grids. They have not enough if any oil, and they need more EVs, so it doesn't matter too much as long as they can sell domestically and export to 3rd world countries.

Their real estate bubble problem is going to be their bigger problems than exporting EVs. Generations of wealth wiped out if the bubble pop, and if they don't pop, their young people would not be able to afford kids and their population would collapse. It is a **** if you do **** if you don't situation. They will have to face what caused the lost decade in Japan, but before they reach where Japan was before the burst.
 
alarmguy said:
...It was always part of Chinese territory I think? But when the rebels broke away from the mainland and moved to the island China was powerless or undetermined to do anything. After all they went to the island to regroup and return one day...
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Actually, it's the Chicoms who are the rebels. As far as I'm concerned, the Government of the Republic of China is the legitimate government of all of China and the commies are illegitimate. No need to go to war about it, though. Communism is so inefficient it will fail on its own. It's making a dog's breakfast of things all on their own right now.
 
ArrestMeRedZ said:
Actually, it's the Chicoms who are the rebels. As far as I'm concerned, the Government of the Republic of China is the legitimate government of all of China and the commies are illegitimate. No need to go to war about it, though. Communism is so inefficient it will fail on its own. It's making a dog's breakfast of things all on their own right now.
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Yup, they all fail from within.
All socialist systems/ideologies are like that. Push the boundaries and destroy the previous norms. Rinse and repeat until nothing is left.

The problem though is that it will destroy millions of lives in the process.
 
I remember back in the 60s that people would refer to Japanese products as "garbage" (using permitted words in this forum)
Well, now they are sought after. :)
Im no fan of China, just saying never underestimate, well, actually we are past that point, now we just wonder if it continues unabated into automobiles on our shores, they certainly already are on the world stage. Im sure Tesla helped them along in EV production greatly.
 
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KrisZ said:
Was Japan run by communist scumbags? You obviously have no clue how horrible these systems are.
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I think your statement "obviously"comes from a closed mind.
From nothing to this;

Screenshot 2024-05-29 at 9.12.21 AM.jpg
 
KrisZ said:
You prove my point alarmguy. You have no idea what they do to their own people. China is not alone on this. Every country that run this experiment, their people suffered terribly. But sure, look at some graphs and claim it's all good, just different from us.
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You said it was good, I didnt. I do have an idea what they do, I know what they do.
All I was saying is dont discount them, they have taken over world exports by human rights violations on every scale possible.

But we as a people (in general) dont seem to care and for cheap prices we let them do whatever they want to their people but even worse, we support with our dollars, their massive upgrading of their military machine that one day I suspect we will have to deal with. It's our dollars they support their war intentions.
With that said, dont think that all people living in China have a bad life.
They have come from a backwards nation to one in which even our Fed says income inequality is better than a lot of the world. Im not debating you. It's just what it is, they are NOT our friends but we dont seem to care and one day I fear ... well, we will see.
REPEAT - Im not debating, I agree with your statements, what I am saying is we let it happen and continue to support them and give them our technology and money. I just call things are they are, it DOESNT mean I dont care. I have voted my whole life, now it's time for the young to take over and honestly ... ? well... no one seems to care, so there is only my one vote.

Chinese life expectancy increased 50% over a 40 year period and at that time they were still in turmoil.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Standard_of_living_in_China
https://www.stlouisfed.org/on-the-economy/2018/january/income-living-standards-china
 
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Thanks for the clarification, you seemed to go on the defensive when I called their EVs junk.

In regards on “us” caring or not it’s partially true. To me, it’s an easy out, just blame the voter, but it’s intellectually dishonest. Just ignore the huge propaganda machine we call media that works tirelessly 24/7 to shape the opinions.

Somehow “we” care about Ukraine and most were quick to fly their flag, even though I’m sure they would have a hard time finding Ukraine on a map or knowing anything about that nation and its people. People and corporations were quick to boycott Russian made products. Somehow no voting was necessary for that.

The same goes for China and its government, it is largely praised and our trade with them is always a positive. In fact many “experts” predict very bad things if we try to limit that trade.
 
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Torrid said:
They sell for a reason. It’s not a knock on it. I don’t think anyone is going to care where it’s made if they trust the brand and are fine with the price.
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Exactly, and it is going to cut into Tesla's bottom line in the process.
 
demarpaint said:
Exactly, and it is going to cut into Tesla's bottom line in the process.
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I don’t think they’re related. Different buyers with different incomes. What we sorely need is more affordable vehicles. Now people need to keep buying these more affordable cars and maybe the market will move to making more reasonable stuff like they used to.

I just had a whole rant in another thread here in a similar vein. It’s time to speak with our checkbooks and buy these affordable vehicles if that’s what we want the market to be. It’s why I bought small cars. It’s what is practical for me and I can option them up with the features I want without paying $60k to get there. What one wants and what one can afford might be two different things. Taking out a bigger loan with a bigger payment because “I want” is sending the wrong message to manufacturers. I really hope this has reached its breaking point and this Buick may be the beginning of getting back to sanity in the new car market.
 
Torrid said:
I don’t think they’re related. Different buyers with different incomes. What we sorely need is more affordable vehicles. Now people need to keep buying these more affordable cars and maybe the market will move to making more reasonable stuff like they used to.

I just had a whole rant in another thread here in a similar vein. It’s time to speak with our checkbooks and buy these affordable vehicles if that’s what we want the market to be. It’s why I bought small cars. It’s what is practical for me and I can option them up with the features I want without paying $60k to get there. What one wants and what one can afford might be two different things. Taking out a bigger loan with a bigger payment because “I want” is sending the wrong message to manufacturers. I really hope this has reached its breaking point and this Buick may be the beginning of getting back to sanity in the new car market.
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I guess we'll have to disagree on this too. If it is an EV and it is sold in the same markets as a Tesla, it is competing with Tesla. Just like all the other EVs. Lower price point yes, but still competition.

I'm all for buying what you want and can afford, noting wrong with buying a vehicle to save on the cost of traveling in it either. I'm not a fan of subsidies to entice buyers, nor am I fan of debt forgiveness in any form. I grew up with the mindset that if I couldn't afford something I shouldn't own it. Nothing wrong with taking a loan, as long as it can be paid back.
 
demarpaint said:
I guess we'll have to disagree on this too. If it is an EV and it is sold in the same markets as a Tesla, it is competing with Tesla. Just like all the other EVs. Lower price point yes, but still competition.

I'm all for buying what you want and can afford, noting wrong with buying a vehicle to save on the cost of traveling in it either. I'm not a fan of subsidies to entice buyers, nor am I fan of debt forgiveness in any form. I grew up with the mindset that if I couldn't afford something I shouldn't own it. Nothing wrong with taking a loan, as long as it can be paid back.
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Sure I guess you could say it’s competing with Tesla, just as much as a Porsche Boxster is comparable to a Mazda Miata. They’re likely not cross shopped though. Cost is the reason.

As far as the loan goes, sure. It’s time to stop complaining about vehicle costs though since we don’t buy frugal vehicles anymore. The cheaper cars went away because they aren’t desirable anymore. We(most of us) want something bigger. That costs money. I don’t feel bad for people in that scenario then. The roads drastically changed when it came to vehicle selection. Hopefully people meet GMs affordable offerings with dollars and it could change the market over time.
 
alarmguy said:
I remember back in the 60s that people would refer to Japanese products as "garbage" (using permitted words in this forum)
Well, now they are sought after. :)
Im no fan of China, just saying never underestimate, well, actually we are past that point, now we just wonder if it continues unabated into automobiles on our shores, they certainly already are on the world stage. Im sure Tesla helped them along in EV production greatly.
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I was discussing when Japanese products were seen as being excellent with a friend. I thought it might have been starting in the late 60s with motorcycles and Sony’s transistor radio. This friend noted Dr Strangelove.

a4e2a082-242f-4127-884e-b6e04fd6e9bc_text.gif
 
y_p_w said:
I was discussing when Japanese products were seen as being excellent with a friend. I thought it might have been starting in the late 60s with motorcycles and Sony’s transistor radio. This friend noted Dr Strangelove.

a4e2a082-242f-4127-884e-b6e04fd6e9bc_text.gif
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One thing for sure the name Sony took Japanese electronics to the next level back in the late 60s and 70s
It was almost a status symbol
 
The Datsun B-210 came out in the early 70’s, about thirty years after WWII. The Envista came out a few years ago, about 50 years after the end of the Vietnam war. The leadership let Japan sell in the USA as it was better they be trading partners rather than combative enemies. They let China come in with everything under the sun but until very recently, autos were not allowed or encouraged. Looks like China is ready to come in.
 
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