Charging and taking advantage

[JeffKeryk]

First of all, I think Roofless was mostly talking about highway trips, and you are correct, right now those are better in an ICE vehicle. The people in the Netherlands seem to have the most experience with this, and I've seen the long lines that followed. As charging times shorten and charging stations become more common, it might even work out that EVs are suitable for a one car family.

Secondly, how much of that "full tank" everyday do you use in a typical day?
Disregard any road trips, just your daily routine.

I don't use the Model 3 daily; I generally use the GS, but don't even drive daily. I love taking the Tundra, personally.
Plus, with things the way they are, we are driving far less than we used to.
If I were driving as before and used the Tesla, it would be 30 to 40 miles, I guess.

In Silicon Valley, quite a few people commute 70 miles or more each way. These people love EVs as they drive in, get the computer lane and charge at work at a subsidized or even free rate.

ICE is not better in all highway use cases.

 

[billt460]

The other issue I see that not many people talk about is volume.

A station like the one by my house has 20 gas pumps and 4 diesels. Seems typical for stations off the highway. Rare that the pumps are backed up and you have to wait, even at the local BJ's or Costco.

How many chargers would you need to "fuel" the same traffic, if most cars are EVs?

This is a good point that doesn't get brought up enough. I can pump 26 gallons of Premium in 5 minutes, another 5 minutes to go inside and pay. (People waiting to buy lottery tickets, slurpee's, and 128 ounce "Bladder Buster" soda's). And I'm on my way in 10 minutes.

How long will a 350 mile charge take on a EV? Even a "Super Fast Charge" takes a long time in comparison to filling a tank. And what do you do while you're waiting? Complain to the other EV owners that you should have bought a IC car?

 

[JohnnyG]

If I were driving as before and used the Tesla, it would be 30 to 40 miles, I guess.

So, practically speaking, you would be better off with a hybrid. Even the 2012 Volt would cover 50 miles on all electric, charged at home. I think Hyundi is realizing this too with the SantaFe plug in.

As far as ICE not being better in all higway use cases, I'm not sure what you mean. Seems they've been doing pretty well since around 1910 or so.

 

[PandaBear]

I'd argue that it would take batteries with the same stamina as drivers-- either 14 hours without charging or 6 hours with the ability to get another 3-4 hours in 20 minutes.

Or, of course, a "range extender" gas engine. It'd be cute if you could rent one on a trailer and umbilical it to your car for that annual road trip.

I was thinking another day, since crewcab is the new SUV and SUV is the new minivan these days, we will soon see gemtop with a generator parked in the pickup bed permanently.

 

[PandaBear]

I don't use the Model 3 daily; I generally use the GS, but don't even drive daily. I love taking the Tundra, personally.
Plus, with things the way they are, we are driving far less than we used to.
If I were driving as before and used the Tesla, it would be 30 to 40 miles, I guess.

In Silicon Valley, quite a few people commute 70 miles or more each way. These people love EVs as they drive in, get the computer lane and charge at work at a subsidized or even free rate.

ICE is not better in all highway use cases.

In a way I disagree.

Yes, there are a lot of people buying EVs to commute 70 miles each way, but they are far more likely going to buy a Prius Prime or other plug in hybrids. In the past we got HOV lane free access with EV but those retire in about 2019 or so, now you just get a "discount" on the toll lane.

Due to work from home people are moving further away, commuting longer but less often, this actually gives hybrid or other gas vehicles more advantage than EVs.

It's not really doom and gloom though, people were far happier when the world goes from horses to trains, and from trains to airplanes. They didn't complain about not going direct between point A to point B because trains are much nicer than horses and carriages to travel in. The most important point is the new transportation has to be nicer, faster, and people will pick it.

 

[JeffKeryk]

In a way I disagree.

Yes, there are a lot of people buying EVs to commute 70 miles each way, but they are far more likely going to buy a Prius Prime or other plug in hybrids. In the past we got HOV lane free access with EV but those retire in about 2019 or so, now you just get a "discount" on the toll lane.

I talk to a lot of Model 3 owners. Their commute is a key reason they bought the car. Of course, hopefully they bought a car they can afford.

 

[UncleDave]

This is a good point that doesn't get brought up enough. I can pump 26 gallons of Premium in 5 minutes, another 5 minutes to go inside and pay. (People waiting to buy lottery tickets, slurpee's, and 128 ounce "Bladder Buster" soda's). And I'm on my way in 10 minutes.

How long will a 350 mile charge take on a EV? Even a "Super Fast Charge" takes a long time in comparison to filling a tank. And what do you do while you're waiting? Complain to the other EV owners that you should have bought a IC car?

As a guy with probably more cylinders to love than anyone I thought they would be awful - they aren't.

The subject of road trips actually comes up more than any other (almost to the exclusion of local trips) and it's one of the least understood.

After many trips with them I have no issues with road tripping them, and they do not take any longer than my normal trips with my gasoline cars.

You dont charge them to full - you charge them to 80% very quickly, and spend about the same time as you would at a stop for fuel.

pull in- hose up, go in for a pee, drink, snack and by the time you come out its ready to leave - on a " long" stop wait another 5 looking at email....

Most find that it adds approximately 1 stop to a days normal travel, and its entirely possible the EV was faster if you normally take an hour break to sit down at a meal.

The teslas are certainly cheaper than Ice. 3rd party charger not so much.
They are less convenient and about as expensive as gasoline.

Chart a trip using "a better route planner" and you'll get a good sense of how it works and how long it takes in what car.

ABRP does a great job of showing you the trip in different cars and computing the price.

 

[PandaBear]

I talk to a lot of Model 3 owners. Their commute is a key reason they bought the car. Of course, hopefully they bought a car they can afford.

Still, if you buy a Model 3 then it will work, but it may not save you money over, say a Camry. I can see you saving money over a luxury car but it may not save you over an economy car for the long range required for long commute.

The luxury brands should be very afraid, but the cheaper economy car brands, maybe less so.

 

[JeffKeryk]

Still, if you buy a Model 3 then it will work, but it may not save you money over, say a Camry. I can see you saving money over a luxury car but it may not save you over an economy car for the long range required for long commute.

The luxury brands should be very afraid, but the cheaper economy car brands, maybe less so.

@PandaBear no one needs a Tesla, Beemer, MBZ, Corvette, Porsche, you name it. People buy what they want, not what they need.

 

[Kiwi_ME]

Still, if you buy a Model 3 then it will work, but it may not save you money over, say a Camry. ...

You'd need to work that out to be sure. It's all a matter of how quickly you'll recover the additional purchase cost of the EV based on the miles you do per year. The big savings comes from charging at home.

 

[Andrew1972]

I live in massive tourist state and neighbor are also. Charging from home won’t cut it visiting parts of NH and Maine at least and you need to find charging somewhere. We have some a rest stops in south part of state (Tesla) but go north it turns sparse.

 

[Job]

I wonder how long a charger stand and cord would last out in the wild. HF cable cutters are cheap and so are cordless saws. The public would cut everything to the ground if no one could see. If there is $10 worth of metals out there for the taking, someone is going to take it. I wouldn’t feel safe being alone either, sitting there on my iPad in my EV.

 

[Wolf359]

I wonder how long a charger stand and cord would last out in the wild. HF cable cutters are cheap and so are cordless saws. The public would cut everything to the ground if no one could see. If there is $10 worth of metals out there for the taking, someone is going to take it. I wouldn’t feel safe being alone either, sitting there on my iPad in my EV.

Well that's probably why they would have cameras considering the cost of installation. You don't see gas stations being looted these days. Probably the same thing, build a convenience store next to it so the people inside can keep an eye on the surroundings.

 

[y_p_w]

Elon started doing that 10 years ago. He has made rest stops with coffee, clean restrooms and stuff you can buy.
Kettleman City is the big one between San Jose and LA. Right off 5, used to be an old Burger King I hear.

Harris Ranch near Coalinga had Superchargers back in 2013 from what I remember. They've applied for permits to expand. I guess a win win if you can get over the smell.

World’s Largest Tesla Supercharger Station Planned Halfway Between LA and San Francisco

Harris Ranch shared that "more than 100 stalls" could provide charging for Teslas driving up and down California.

www.thedrive.com

Harris Ranch shared that "more than 100 stalls" could provide charging for Teslas driving up and down California.​