Central AC

[Jimmy_Russells]

We don't get too many extended hot days (30C+) in Calgary, but we decided to install central AC after living without it for previous 10 years. We went with two Daiken 2.5 ton 13 Seer AC units for our two story/walk out basement house (3500 sq/ft above ground). In 2019, total cost was $6300 for parts and installation, warranty is 12 years parts and compressor and 2 years on labour. Daiken is parent company of Goodman and for extra $200, warranty goes from 10 to 12 years and I thought it was worth it.

Just like OP, our second floor temp can go up to 35-36C by the evening with blinds on, but no tree to shade the house, and it's uncomfortable for sure. With annual forest fire from BC wafting into Alberta during the summer, we can sleep soundly with the windows closed. Upstairs unit runs about 85% of the time and first floor/basement unit runs rarely. Electricity bill is extra $50-60 per month for 2-3 months, but so worth it.

6300 for two units? Wow. I guess today it’s probably closer to 7500 or something but that is still way cheaper than what they’re quoting me for one. The company is a pretty big player and a Lennox certified dealer so I think they’re like the Mercedes of hvac. I only need a Chevy, as long as it is reliable, I don’t need bells and whistles.

The second contractor is a smaller player who usually does commercial, he’s actually my wife’s best friends nephew but he’s been doing it a long time and is an Allied Air certified installer. So I think the price will be much better it’s just a matter of if it’s over my comfort zone which is about 6k but truthfully I was really hoping it started with a 4.

 

[brianl703]

Heat pump is not a great option in my area really because it is way, way more expensive to heat with electricity compared to natural gas. Plus the install is about 50% more than furnace/ac.

A heatpump usually costs around $800 more than a straight cool system. The main difference is the inclusion of a reversing valve in the outdoor unit, some sort of dual-fuel control, and a thermostat that can control a heat pump.

 

[Barkleymut]

The big hvac guys in my area (at least the ones that advertise on tv non stop) wanted 7k for 1 unit. I got a basic Trane unit for around 5k and that included some minor duct work. 5 years later the company that installed mine closed, but the trane is doing fine.

 

[Jimmy_Russells]

*sigh*

So the second guy still came in at 8 grand. This is for a 3.5 ton Ducane, he said if I decide I want a three ton (I only want to cool to about 78-80F) it would only be a couple hundred cheaper.

This just seems really expensive

 

[Jimmy_Russells]

So I guess nobody has any other input?

Obviously markets are different, but I'm wondering about install costs and what not. The quote they are providing includes running the lines through the house (not that easy but not terrible), the run will be about 45-50 feet. It also includes all the electrical (and permit) because they need to run a new 30A circuit of the unit. Also they need to install the coil in the furnace.

From what I can see the retail of the actual ac unit (4AC16L 3 ton) in Canada is $3950, but I am not sure if that includes the coil. So even if I am paying list price they are still charging about $3700 for the install/coil.

I just can't see another contractor being much cheaper. Maybe a few hundred bucks but no way a couple grand.

 

[tbm5690]

Guess I didn't realize you were in CA...your 8K is Canadian dollars I presume? At current exchange rates that's 6.3K US which seems a bit high although I've heard HVAC equipment has recently increased nearly 20% in cost. My 2 ton unit was almost 3K US a year ago if you include the interior coil, and my situation was a replacement so no lines to run or holes to cut.

 

[Jimmy_Russells]

Guess I didn't realize you were in CA...your 8K is Canadian dollars I presume? At current exchange rates that's 6.3K US which seems a bit high although I've heard HVAC equipment has recently increased nearly 20% in cost. My 2 ton unit was almost 3K US a year ago if you include the interior coil, and my situation was a replacement so no lines to run or holes to cut.

Yeah the best quote is $7750 (+5% tax) so far. That's for a 3 ton Ducane 16 SEER (rebadged/re-cased Lennox Merit). Yes that is Canadian and I live in a very expensive place, but it's still higher than I had hoped but maybe this is the new normal. Someone I spoke to on the weekend said HVAC equipment is up about 20% in the past 12-18 months. Typical labour rate around here for contractors or mechanics etc is $120-140 an hour.

I also just called another company to quote like 30 minutes ago and they turned me down saying they were too busy.

 

[Hillbilly Deluxe]

Let me help all of you that are baffled about HVAC pricing lately-

I don't hear anyone bragging that their kid is going to trade school. I don't hear anyone bragging that their kid just went to work for XZY HVAC Company and will be learning the trade.

All I hear is radio commercials from HVAC, Plumbing, Electrical and Auto Repair companies begging for people to come to work for them; they will train them, feed them, clothe them. They aren't asking for more customers. They are spending 100% of their advertising budget begging for new hires.


Equipment has had to be re-engineered to meet EPA requirements; to meet new DOE standards and to compete with the next guy. This costs money. Large companies are also known to be very efficient internally, no dead weight sitting around hiding in cubicles or not a lot of worthless HR programs indoctrinating office staff. NOT.


Combine these two attributes, along with the demand and you have the new standard cost of $9-10,000 for a basic residential HVAC system.

This is ..... the new normal.

 

[Jimmy_Russells]

Yeah the best quote is $7750 (+5% tax) so far. That's for a 3 ton Ducane 16 SEER (rebadged/re-cased Lennox Merit). Yes that is Canadian and I live in a very expensive place, but it's still higher than I had hoped but maybe this is the new normal. Someone I spoke to on the weekend said HVAC equipment is up about 20% in the past 12-18 months. Typical labour rate around here for contractors or mechanics etc is $120-140 an hour.

I also just called another company to quote like 30 minutes ago and they turned me down saying they were too busy.

So I got this all installed on Saturday.

I straight up asked the guy if I did this pre-pandemic, how much cheaper it would have been. He said probably a couple grand. I wish I did it five years ago.

Oh well hopefully I'll get some good use out of it for years to come.

 

[billt460]

So I got this all installed on Saturday.

I straight up asked the guy if I did this pre-pandemic, how much cheaper it would have been. He said probably a couple grand. I wish I did it five years ago.

Oh well hopefully I'll get some good use out of it for years to come.

That's six of one, half a dozen of the other. Yeah, you would have saved a couple of grand. But now you would have an extra 5 years of wear and tear on the unit.

I think you did alright. Don't second guess yourself. You have a nice new unit under factory warranty. Sleep well..... And COOL.

 

[Eddie]

Super happy with my TRANE here in Florida where it runs 100% for 10 months a year. Ed

 

[Hillbilly Deluxe]

Super happy with my TRANE here in Florida where it runs 100% for 10 months a year. Ed

You'd probably have a power bill of 65-70% of what it is now if you had gone with a mini-split type system. With a 40-50% premium on equipment cost, would that 30%+ energy savings have paid for the PREMIUM over the Trane in 3-4 years?

 

[alarmguy]

Super happy with our builder installed Heil units. Simple, basic, trouble free for the last almost 16 YEARS.
(fingers crossed we will make it to 20 or more years)

One unit was serviced by a AC technician well over a decade ago, failed to realize a low freon condition, and sprayed the coils with a strong cleaner, stripped the black coating off the coils, idiot, I was so pissed, fixed nothing. God the incompetence at times in all industries.
I fixed it myself, bought my own freon and gauges, there was no leak.

Only one other issue in 16 years, I just recently I replaced (myself) one condenser fan with a new OEM. Im so happy with these units I will insist on this more commercial low cost brand when they are replaced, if the cost is right.
Im only saying this because for me personally I could care less what brand or efficiency, just give me reliability. Like oil, most everything is marketing dollars for a higher markup product. Give me the brands that dont market.

 

[aquariuscsm]

Depends where you live. Working A/C is required where I live and landlords MUST maintain the AC in working condition. Life or death without working AC, so not exactly a luxury.

Yep same here. Especially if you’re in south Texas. Oversized and top of the line is a requirement imo here in Texas.

 

[SubLGT]

https://www.star-telegram.com/news/local/fort-worth/article261385667.html

[May 14, 2022]......Inflation, supply chain issues and worker shortages are hitting the air conditioning industry....
....Prices of air conditioner parts have gone up about 25% since 2020, Spears [an HVAC manager at ABC Home and Commercial Services of DFW] said. ABC primarily buys equipment from Richardson-based Lennox Industries, which announced price hikes four times since 2021 “due to persistent cost inflation.”

Just this year, the company announced a 13% increase on commercial equipment and another 9% increase on both residential and commercial equipment. That’s affected prices of indoor and outdoor A/C units, evaporator coils, thermostats and control boards, Spears said. “We’ve had to raise our prices, which has made a lot of customers upset,” Spears says.

“We’ve gone up at least 20% on our tickets for residential equipment, just because we have to stay in front of the manufacturers’ rises. We try to cut costs in other areas to compensate it, but we can only cut so much costs without cutting corners on the jobs. So we have to raise prices, it’s the only way to stay in business.”

 

[ZZman]

You might look at Goodman/Daikin models.

 

[Jimmy_Russells]

Alright so we finally have some warm weather this weekend.

I notice my new ac is running pretty constant schedule of ten minutes on, ten minutes off. The thermostat I bought a couple months ago does not allow changing of cycles per hour, or temperature threshold, unfortunately. Some guys say 10/10 is standard three cycles an hour and some guys say it’s better to run it more like 15-20 minutes at a time.

You guys with more experience on this, how often does your system cycle? I am considering getting a different thermostat which I can change the temperature threshold to have more of a swing, but I can’t return this one anymore which is $200 down the drain.

I also went back and checked my heating history in the app, and my furnace turns on for only six minutes… Every single time.

Thanks

 

[brianl703]

Alright so we finally have some warm weather this weekend.

I notice my new ac is running pretty constant schedule of ten minutes on, ten minutes off. The thermostat I bought a couple months ago does not allow changing of cycles per hour, or temperature threshold, unfortunately. Some guys say 10/10 is standard three cycles an hour and some guys say it’s better to run it more like 15-20 minutes at a time.

Fewer cycles per hour will reduce energy use, but allow greater temperature swing.

I think my Honeywell FocusPro thermostat is set for 2 cycles per hour.

 

[Skippy722]

It’s been hot the last 2 weeks here and the AC ran pretty much nonstop throughout the day.

 

[97prizm]

Had a quote for central AC install (adding to existing gas furnace forced air) and I have to admit I’m taken back at what they are quoting. I asked a couple neighbours and they said it should be around 4.5-6k. Was quoted three different Lennox units at 8.5k, 10.2k and 11.8k for three ton units of different features and SEER ratings. House is 2800 sq ft and this is a fresh AC install, no existing AC.

I have a second company coming in the morning to quote… Are Lennox units that much more expensive? I’m not sure what brand the second company will recommend.

My coworker had both AC and furnace quoted in November, his house is similar size and it was 11k for both. Those were AirEase units.

My Lennox furnace was awesome. It lasted 21 years with very little, except Filtrete 3M Filters every 90 days. At year 20 it needed a flame sensor. Unfortunately HVAC companies are starting to jack prices way up. My friend installs A/C units and according to him the standard mark-up is 30% or so. My parents shopped around and were quoted $4200 for just an 80% efficient furnace. The wholesale price was $1100 so $1,430 with mark-up plus install is way less than $4200. We had three other companies come out and were quoted 6500, $7500 and $8000 for a 90% efficient furnace no A/C.