AZjeff
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Catch can + road draft tube.
Probably get you life in California.
Probably get you life in California.
Catch Cans Work - Toyota D4-S 3.5L V6st (Proof)
- Thread starter StevieC
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Originally Posted by clinebarger
At Wide Open Throttle......The crankcase is evacuated through the Breather Hose NOT the PCV Valve & Hose.
At WOT there should be flow in both the fresh air line (what you call the breather hose) and the PCV line since the vacuum level in the intake is near ATM, and the crankcase has the highest level of piston blow-by,
At Wide Open Throttle......The crankcase is evacuated through the Breather Hose NOT the PCV Valve & Hose.
At WOT there should be flow in both the fresh air line (what you call the breather hose) and the PCV line since the vacuum level in the intake is near ATM, and the crankcase has the highest level of piston blow-by,
Originally Posted by ZeeOSix
Originally Posted by clinebarger
At Wide Open Throttle......The crankcase is evacuated through the Breather Hose NOT the PCV Valve & Hose.
At WOT there should be flow in both the fresh air line (what you call the breather hose) and the PCV line since the vacuum level in the intake is near ATM, and the crankcase has the highest level of piston blow-by,
Yup, a little of both, also depending on the aerodynamics of the venturi effect where their respective hoses meet up with the intake/ intake tube.
Originally Posted by clinebarger
At Wide Open Throttle......The crankcase is evacuated through the Breather Hose NOT the PCV Valve & Hose.
At WOT there should be flow in both the fresh air line (what you call the breather hose) and the PCV line since the vacuum level in the intake is near ATM, and the crankcase has the highest level of piston blow-by,
Yup, a little of both, also depending on the aerodynamics of the venturi effect where their respective hoses meet up with the intake/ intake tube.
I'm sure the more expensive ones catch more because they have the oil separator brass media but I think the $30 one if sufficient, judging by what I caught in a short time and the fact that the outlet hose back to the engine was dry after installation and wet prior to installation.
There is a problem with this whole thing, it doesn't add up. If these $40 retail items worked that well, could help with deposit control and more importantly cat poisoning which the manufacturer has to warranty many years and is very expensive I cant see them not using one on every engine.
Yet world wide tens of millions of engines are not using one and running hundreds of thousands of miles with the same cat.
It may be a fun experiment but what I find unusual is when we pictures of these things there is usually moisture present and its a milky mess not just pure engine oil.
For that much oil in 250 miles in 5K there would be a lot of oil the can, any moisture in there will freeze in the winter possible plugging the vacuum source.
The other question is are they allowing this to happen deliberately to lubricate the valve stems or to be soaked up by any carbon that may be present on the back of the valves to keep it soft and easier to remove by the port injector stream.
I don't know, these are just some thoughts. Toyota went to great lengths to keep the back of the valves clean, did you just delete part of that equation?
These things are so common and inexpensive I am sure Toyota engineers and all the others are well aware of them, I just find it hard to believe in today's low emission environment they would dismiss it if it were of any value or if it could could address an issue with a specific engine.
Yet world wide tens of millions of engines are not using one and running hundreds of thousands of miles with the same cat.
It may be a fun experiment but what I find unusual is when we pictures of these things there is usually moisture present and its a milky mess not just pure engine oil.
For that much oil in 250 miles in 5K there would be a lot of oil the can, any moisture in there will freeze in the winter possible plugging the vacuum source.
The other question is are they allowing this to happen deliberately to lubricate the valve stems or to be soaked up by any carbon that may be present on the back of the valves to keep it soft and easier to remove by the port injector stream.
I don't know, these are just some thoughts. Toyota went to great lengths to keep the back of the valves clean, did you just delete part of that equation?
These things are so common and inexpensive I am sure Toyota engineers and all the others are well aware of them, I just find it hard to believe in today's low emission environment they would dismiss it if it were of any value or if it could could address an issue with a specific engine.
Good point Trav. I know a lot of gasoline engines in Europe that were converted to LPG had valve seat wear issues due to lack of lubrication. That little bit of oil vapor in the intake charge may have several reasons to be there.
Clean valves and intake manifold mean nothing vs one that has some deposits if there is no performance or driveability issues. It just gets the OCD in a lot of people going wild.
Clean valves and intake manifold mean nothing vs one that has some deposits if there is no performance or driveability issues. It just gets the OCD in a lot of people going wild.
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I think it's like the Youtube video by Engineering Explained says. "People don't want another maintenance item because they are lazy and getting them to change their oil is maintenance enough" Not emptying this can could have problematic results so they don't include them because engines seem to live more than enough long lives without them.
As for did Toyota design the engine this way, I touched on this above. Maybe they do it to help with lubricating the top end of the engine or for fuel economy purposes by lubricating the rings from the top end? Who knows.
Maybe it's like you said to keep carbon on the valves soft. This I also don't know. I don't think so though.
I agree that vehicles run hundreds of thousands of miles trouble free with cats and without catch cans so I don't think there is a need either. I was only saying that I think it could be beneficial to further reduce the oil going through the combustion chamber and into the exhaust for reasons I mentioned, but it might take say a million miles before this benefit is seen over the average 200,000 - 300,000 miles most people drive the vehicles to before replacing them.
Again this is just an experiment to prove that catch cans do what they say and that $200 cans aren't necessarily needed to do the same job as a $30 can on a daily driver. My PCV hose was moist with oil at the start of this and now the hose going from the can to the intake is dry with the can.
In terms of the hose freezing in the winter I have kept it under the engine cover until just before the can and the same with the return hose so there is little chance this will be a problem but we will see when the colder temperatures get here.
As for moisture in the can and how much oil it catches in total I will check it at the 1,000km (600 mile) mark and then again over the course of a whole OCI.
As for did Toyota design the engine this way, I touched on this above. Maybe they do it to help with lubricating the top end of the engine or for fuel economy purposes by lubricating the rings from the top end? Who knows.
Maybe it's like you said to keep carbon on the valves soft. This I also don't know. I don't think so though.
I agree that vehicles run hundreds of thousands of miles trouble free with cats and without catch cans so I don't think there is a need either. I was only saying that I think it could be beneficial to further reduce the oil going through the combustion chamber and into the exhaust for reasons I mentioned, but it might take say a million miles before this benefit is seen over the average 200,000 - 300,000 miles most people drive the vehicles to before replacing them.
Again this is just an experiment to prove that catch cans do what they say and that $200 cans aren't necessarily needed to do the same job as a $30 can on a daily driver. My PCV hose was moist with oil at the start of this and now the hose going from the can to the intake is dry with the can.
In terms of the hose freezing in the winter I have kept it under the engine cover until just before the can and the same with the return hose so there is little chance this will be a problem but we will see when the colder temperatures get here.
As for moisture in the can and how much oil it catches in total I will check it at the 1,000km (600 mile) mark and then again over the course of a whole OCI.
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I should have had the first 1,000km (600 mile) report back by next week with the miles I drive but as luck would have it I'm at a trade show out of the country all week so it will be in 2 weeks time.
Getting back to the amount of fluid it caught in such a short period of time. Most of it looks like oil, hopefully that settles down as the engine breaks in or you have what looks like an oil burner in the works. Cool experiment either way, but I really don't think it's needed, if I did I'd have one by now.
It's got over 10,000km (6,000 miles) on it now and I have always checked the oil at every fill-up in all my vehicles. It hasn't shown any decrease on the dipstick. The oil in the can in the picture might be a table spoon at best out of a 6 quart sump. We'll see though.
I'll be sure to let everyone know here if there is any top-up oil added when I run the can for the full OCI so that is factored in.
I'll be sure to let everyone know here if there is any top-up oil added when I run the can for the full OCI so that is factored in.
Yes, for sure keep checking it and since its in there experiment a little with different oils, the results could be interesting.
Yeah once the break-in is done I'm going to try different brands and different weights to see if any of those have different results as my driving pattern is pretty much the same.
I would say that at 6k miles the engine break in process has concluded, at least for the piston rings, but probably for the bottom end as well.
Originally Posted by StevieC
It's got over 10,000km (6,000 miles) on it now and I have always checked the oil at every fill-up in all my vehicles. It hasn't shown any decrease on the dipstick. The oil in the can in the picture might be a table spoon at best out of a 6 quart sump. We'll see though.
I'll be sure to let everyone know here if there is any top-up oil added when I run the can for the full OCI so that is factored in.
The picture made it look, at least to me like there was more oil than a tablespoon. If you haven't seen the level drop in 6K miles and the oil doesn't smell like gas, you have nothing to worry about. Carry on with the experiment!
I would love to see if different oils and grades make any difference.
It's got over 10,000km (6,000 miles) on it now and I have always checked the oil at every fill-up in all my vehicles. It hasn't shown any decrease on the dipstick. The oil in the can in the picture might be a table spoon at best out of a 6 quart sump. We'll see though.
I'll be sure to let everyone know here if there is any top-up oil added when I run the can for the full OCI so that is factored in.
The picture made it look, at least to me like there was more oil than a tablespoon. If you haven't seen the level drop in 6K miles and the oil doesn't smell like gas, you have nothing to worry about. Carry on with the experiment!
Stay tuned, I'm interested in trialing different oils too.
Originally Posted by StevieC
I'm sure the more expensive ones catch more because they have the oil separator brass media but I think the $30 one if sufficient, judging by what I caught in a short time and the fact that the outlet hose back to the engine was dry after installation and wet prior to installation.
From what I read elsewhere, effectiveness of the cheap ones (including home-made ones) can be improved by adding metal mesh in the can in the path of the flow---being careful not to let any of it get sucked into the manifold, of course.
I'm sure the more expensive ones catch more because they have the oil separator brass media but I think the $30 one if sufficient, judging by what I caught in a short time and the fact that the outlet hose back to the engine was dry after installation and wet prior to installation.
From what I read elsewhere, effectiveness of the cheap ones (including home-made ones) can be improved by adding metal mesh in the can in the path of the flow---being careful not to let any of it get sucked into the manifold, of course.
Just got back from Chicago with work and the 3/8" Fuel filter arrived which I will install on the outlet port of the Catch Can to see if it changes colour from any vapor that the can doesn't catch.
Stay tuned.
Stay tuned.
I'm just coming up on the first 1K km (600 miles) and there is definitely more oil in the can. I have watched some videos online and have watched a few modifications to get even more oil out of this can by adding material to the round Baffle-cage in the can. I will measure the exact amount of oil caught once I hit exactly 1K miles prior to making this modification below.
I thought about adding some of these Stainless Steel smokers-pipe screens to the round baffle cage to help collect the oil and will do so for the 2nd 1,000km run to see if it collects more oil. (In between these two parts with the red arrow. These screw together) I wanted to do this now as I still have quite a ways to go before I'm due for an oil change and can test another oil's effect on the can setup. (And/or difference viscosity)
Thoughts?
![[Linked Image]](https://www.marijuanapackaging.com/media/catalog/product/cache/1/image/350x350/9df78eab33525d08d6e5fb8d27136e95/m/e/metal-pipe-screens-2.jpg "[Linked Image]")
I thought about adding some of these Stainless Steel smokers-pipe screens to the round baffle cage to help collect the oil and will do so for the 2nd 1,000km run to see if it collects more oil. (In between these two parts with the red arrow. These screw together) I wanted to do this now as I still have quite a ways to go before I'm due for an oil change and can test another oil's effect on the can setup. (And/or difference viscosity)
Thoughts?
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