Catalytic Converter Thefts

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OVERKILL said:
Not being American, isn't this grounds to just shoot them in places like Florida and Texas? Obviously Cali isn't the same, but I'm surprised to hear how rampant this is!
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I could see the argument now. By taking my catalytic converter, the perp was increasing emissions, so to save my life and the lives of others I had to shoot him.
 
Vercingetorix said:
I could see the argument now. By taking my catalytic converter, the perp was increasing emissions, so to save my life and the lives of others I had to shoot him.
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Aren't the grounds in Texas pretty, ummm, generous? This is what I found:

Prevention of Trespass or Theft - Texas Penal Code § 9.41(a)​

Texas law allows a lawful owner of land or tangible property to use force to protect his property. The property owner is justified in using force when he reasonably believes the force is immediately necessary to prevent or terminate the other's trespass on his land or unlawful interference with his property.

Recovery of Land or Stolen Property - Texas Penal Code § 9.41(b)​

A person unlawfully dispossessed of land or property by another is justified in using force against the other when he reasonably believes the force is immediately necessary to re-enter the land or recover the property. The owner can only use force if he uses it immediately or in fresh pursuit after the dispossession and he reasonably believes the other had no claim of right when he dispossessed the actor or the other took the land or property by using force, threat, or fraud.

Deadly Force to Protect Property - Texas Penal Code § 9.42​

There is a three-part test an owner must meet in order to use deadly force to protect his property. A person is justified in using deadly force to protect his land or tangible property if:

  1. he would be justified in using force against the other under § 9.41 of the Penal Code;
  2. he reasonably believes the deadly force is immediately necessary to prevent the other's imminent commission of arson, burglary, robbery, aggravated robbery, theft during the nighttime, or criminal mischief during the nighttime or to prevent the other who is fleeing immediately after committing burglary, robbery, aggravated robbery, or theft during the nighttime from escaping with the property; and
  3. he reasonably believes that the land or property cannot be protected or recovered by any other means or the use of force other than deadly force to protect or recover the land or property would expose the actor or another to a substantial risk of death or serious bodily injury.


So, I mean, as far as Texas law goes, it would seem that robbery where theft is imminent is indeed grounds to use deadly force, at least that's my interpretation of the above? "He had a sawsall and was going to steal my cat if I didn't shoot him!"

I haven't looked up Florida, but I was under the impression they were reasonably similar in this regard.
 
OVERKILL said:
Aren't the grounds in Texas pretty, ummm, generous? This is what I found:

Prevention of Trespass or Theft - Texas Penal Code § 9.41(a)​

Texas law allows a lawful owner of land or tangible property to use force to protect his property. The property owner is justified in using force when he reasonably believes the force is immediately necessary to prevent or terminate the other's trespass on his land or unlawful interference with his property.

Recovery of Land or Stolen Property - Texas Penal Code § 9.41(b)​

A person unlawfully dispossessed of land or property by another is justified in using force against the other when he reasonably believes the force is immediately necessary to re-enter the land or recover the property. The owner can only use force if he uses it immediately or in fresh pursuit after the dispossession and he reasonably believes the other had no claim of right when he dispossessed the actor or the other took the land or property by using force, threat, or fraud.

Deadly Force to Protect Property - Texas Penal Code § 9.42​

There is a three-part test an owner must meet in order to use deadly force to protect his property. A person is justified in using deadly force to protect his land or tangible property if:

  1. he would be justified in using force against the other under § 9.41 of the Penal Code;
  2. he reasonably believes the deadly force is immediately necessary to prevent the other's imminent commission of arson, burglary, robbery, aggravated robbery, theft during the nighttime, or criminal mischief during the nighttime or to prevent the other who is fleeing immediately after committing burglary, robbery, aggravated robbery, or theft during the nighttime from escaping with the property; and
  3. he reasonably believes that the land or property cannot be protected or recovered by any other means or the use of force other than deadly force to protect or recover the land or property would expose the actor or another to a substantial risk of death or serious bodily injury.


So, I mean, as far as Texas law goes, it would seem that robbery where theft is imminent is indeed grounds to use deadly force, at least that's my interpretation of the above? "He had a sawsall and was going to steal my cat if I didn't shoot him!"

I haven't looked up Florida, but I was under the impression they were reasonably similar in this regard.
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Packing a deadly Super Sawzall!!
 
It just happened to wife’s coworker with cruddy small car parked at home in Boston(Somerville). Such as a hassle as they are a one car family.
 
10WSmuckers said:
I would say weld a bunch of braided steel cables under it if there's enough room. And if you do catch a would be thief break their legs with a baseball bat, take their cordless saw and carve up their face with it.
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That’s what I did. So far, so good. I used to live in an area with rampant cat theft(my office and some of my social core is still there), so I try to use public transit and park the car in a safe place at the train station next to a security camera if I do need to go into town.

I know those shields can be bypassed as well.
 
OVERKILL said:
Aren't the grounds in Texas pretty, ummm, generous? This is what I found:

Prevention of Trespass or Theft - Texas Penal Code § 9.41(a)​

Texas law allows a lawful owner of land or tangible property to use force to protect his property. The property owner is justified in using force when he reasonably believes the force is immediately necessary to prevent or terminate the other's trespass on his land or unlawful interference with his property.

Recovery of Land or Stolen Property - Texas Penal Code § 9.41(b)​

A person unlawfully dispossessed of land or property by another is justified in using force against the other when he reasonably believes the force is immediately necessary to re-enter the land or recover the property. The owner can only use force if he uses it immediately or in fresh pursuit after the dispossession and he reasonably believes the other had no claim of right when he dispossessed the actor or the other took the land or property by using force, threat, or fraud.

Deadly Force to Protect Property - Texas Penal Code § 9.42​

There is a three-part test an owner must meet in order to use deadly force to protect his property. A person is justified in using deadly force to protect his land or tangible property if:

  1. he would be justified in using force against the other under § 9.41 of the Penal Code;
  2. he reasonably believes the deadly force is immediately necessary to prevent the other's imminent commission of arson, burglary, robbery, aggravated robbery, theft during the nighttime, or criminal mischief during the nighttime or to prevent the other who is fleeing immediately after committing burglary, robbery, aggravated robbery, or theft during the nighttime from escaping with the property; and
  3. he reasonably believes that the land or property cannot be protected or recovered by any other means or the use of force other than deadly force to protect or recover the land or property would expose the actor or another to a substantial risk of death or serious bodily injury.


So, I mean, as far as Texas law goes, it would seem that robbery where theft is imminent is indeed grounds to use deadly force, at least that's my interpretation of the above? "He had a sawsall and was going to steal my cat if I didn't shoot him!"

I haven't looked up Florida, but I was under the impression they were reasonably similar in this regard.
Click to expand...
Gotta be careful though… the courts may not find you in the wrong “criminally” but the person shot or their family could take you to court civilly. Some states have protections against that though, so it’s a very state by state and even case by case thing.
 
Good luck if you were to shoot a gang member for cutting off a catalytic converter his fellow gangsters probably don’t care much about what it says in the penal code.
 
OVERKILL said:
Aren't the grounds in Texas pretty, ummm, generous? This is what I found:

Prevention of Trespass or Theft - Texas Penal Code § 9.41(a)​

Texas law allows a lawful owner of land or tangible property to use force to protect his property. The property owner is justified in using force when he reasonably believes the force is immediately necessary to prevent or terminate the other's trespass on his land or unlawful interference with his property.

Recovery of Land or Stolen Property - Texas Penal Code § 9.41(b)​

A person unlawfully dispossessed of land or property by another is justified in using force against the other when he reasonably believes the force is immediately necessary to re-enter the land or recover the property. The owner can only use force if he uses it immediately or in fresh pursuit after the dispossession and he reasonably believes the other had no claim of right when he dispossessed the actor or the other took the land or property by using force, threat, or fraud.

Deadly Force to Protect Property - Texas Penal Code § 9.42​

There is a three-part test an owner must meet in order to use deadly force to protect his property. A person is justified in using deadly force to protect his land or tangible property if:

  1. he would be justified in using force against the other under § 9.41 of the Penal Code;
  2. he reasonably believes the deadly force is immediately necessary to prevent the other's imminent commission of arson, burglary, robbery, aggravated robbery, theft during the nighttime, or criminal mischief during the nighttime or to prevent the other who is fleeing immediately after committing burglary, robbery, aggravated robbery, or theft during the nighttime from escaping with the property; and
  3. he reasonably believes that the land or property cannot be protected or recovered by any other means or the use of force other than deadly force to protect or recover the land or property would expose the actor or another to a substantial risk of death or serious bodily injury.


So, I mean, as far as Texas law goes, it would seem that robbery where theft is imminent is indeed grounds to use deadly force, at least that's my interpretation of the above? "He had a sawsall and was going to steal my cat if I didn't shoot him!"

I haven't looked up Florida, but I was under the impression they were reasonably similar in this regard.
Click to expand...
This depends heavily on being a "reasonable person." Haven't see one of those for a long time.
 
I doubt they are using a sawzall in a residential neighborhood, too noisy. I was thinking of putting a small weld on each on the nuts to prevent them from being wrenched off. I have never had to replace a cat on any of my vehicles but if I do, I can cut the weld with a wizzer saw real quick...but again I don't think the thieves will because it's too noisy.
 
another Todd said:
I doubt they are using a sawzall in a residential neighborhood, too noisy. I was thinking of putting a small weld on each on the nuts to prevent them from being wrenched off. I have never had to replace a cat on any of my vehicles but if I do, I can cut the weld with a wizzer saw real quick...but again I don't think the thieves will because it's too noisy.
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You’d be surprised.

I have cables welded on - and that includes the cat-exhaust manifold flange. There’s no way that’s coming off without a fight(or a big chisel/air hammer).
 
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