Case for bigger Gov.

[MarkC]

Originally Posted By: farrarfan1
Originally Posted By: Gary Allan
Originally Posted By: farrarfan1
Originally Posted By: Gary Allan
Ah ..the sensible notion that you're a member of a society that actually wants its members to benefit from the toils of the society.

Interesting concept.

It's an old concept.
"From each according to his abilities, to each according to his needs."—Karl Marx


As opposed to some of the members of a society benefiting at the expense of the society in terms of privatized profits and socialized costs - neo-contemporary gain model authors

Just pointing out the fact that that concept is at least 200 years old.


No lie. I'd say it's about 2,000 years old...

Acts 4:32-35 " 32. And the multitude of them that believed were of one heart and of one soul: neither said any of them that ought of the things which he possessed was his own; but they had all things common.
33. And with great power gave the apostles witness of the resurrection of the Lord Jesus: and great grace was upon them all.
34. Neither was there any among them that lacked: for as many as were possessors of lands or houses sold them, and brought the prices of the things that were sold,
35. And laid them down at the apostles' feet: and distribution was made unto every man according as he had need."

What?

 

[farrarfan1]

Originally Posted By: MarkC
Originally Posted By: farrarfan1
Originally Posted By: Gary Allan
Originally Posted By: farrarfan1
Originally Posted By: Gary Allan
Ah ..the sensible notion that you're a member of a society that actually wants its members to benefit from the toils of the society.

Interesting concept.

It's an old concept.
"From each according to his abilities, to each according to his needs."—Karl Marx


As opposed to some of the members of a society benefiting at the expense of the society in terms of privatized profits and socialized costs - neo-contemporary gain model authors

Just pointing out the fact that that concept is at least 200 years old.


No lie. I'd say it's about 2,000 years old...

Acts 4:32-35 " 32. And the multitude of them that believed were of one heart and of one soul: neither said any of them that ought of the things which he possessed was his own; but they had all things common.
33. And with great power gave the apostles witness of the resurrection of the Lord Jesus: and great grace was upon them all.
34. Neither was there any among them that lacked: for as many as were possessors of lands or houses sold them, and brought the prices of the things that were sold,
35. And laid them down at the apostles' feet: and distribution was made unto every man according as he had need."

What?

Did they share their bounty on their own free will or were they forced to by a government that decides who is entitled to others property?

 

[MarkC]

Just making a point. Lifting and twisting words from sacred text has been, and will continue to be done by people with varying agendas.
But the whole knee-jerk "Commie slogan" reaction to the words is amusing.
Marxism and capitalism share several basic premises, among them that people are basically economic entities and that life is driven by economics. Sadly, this appears to be just the case.
The reason capitalism "works" better than Marxism is that it appeals more strongly to basic human greed and reluctance to be forced to do things. Communism is more overt in its manipulation of the masses. Here, more people can get more of the pie than under a Marxist setup, up to a point; Sort of misleading, since people do what they're forced to every day, they just call it something else, and imagine that they're doing what they want.

 

[Drew99GT]

Originally Posted By: dave123
so many look to government and an attitude as what have you done for me lately..


Especially bankers...

 

[dave123]

dont forget the automakers...

 

[Drew99GT]

And the porn industry.

 

[Pablo]

Originally Posted By: Drew99GT
Originally Posted By: dave123
so many look to government and an attitude as what have you done for me lately..


Especially bankers...

Remind me again why we are giving these guys our money? I could have sworn they were the same crowd who couldn't make money charging 19% interest. Naw, I'm just confused.

 

[Drew99GT]

Originally Posted By: Pablo
[
Remind me again why we are giving these guys our money?


Because some people actually do believe in corporate welfare.

 

[MarkC]

No...say it ain't so.

 

[Pablo]

Sandy craws comes all year round!

 

[MarkC]

But only for the chosen.

 

[oilyriser]

Originally Posted By: scoobie
Just to repeat: I also pay about 30% of my income on income tax, and I earn quite a bit (300,000$ +), because I actually am a Canadian doctor..


What's your secret? A friend of mine gave me a different story for the 2007 tax year: Income was $28k, and total provincial and federal tax due was about $9600. Do you have a million kids? Or ten wives? Maybe there are some deductions/shelters only available to the high income crowd.

 

[Gary Allan]

Originally Posted By: Drew99GT
Originally Posted By: Pablo
[
Remind me again why we are giving these guys our money?


Because some people actually do believe in corporate welfare.


Wealth needs help

(where's my "life is unfair

" pie dish gremlin?)

 

[Aldaris]

Originally Posted By: scoobie
time is a right wing rag
Are all Canadians like you? I'm just curious.

 

[rshaw125]

No they're not most Canadians are pretty nice. But a few have a big jealousy problem.But I can understand how they feel.Always on the side lines while the US does the heavy lifting.

 

[VeeDubb]

Originally Posted By: MarkC
Just making a point. Lifting and twisting words from sacred text has been, and will continue to be done by people with varying agendas.
But the whole knee-jerk "Commie slogan" reaction to the words is amusing.
Marxism and capitalism share several basic premises, among them that people are basically economic entities and that life is driven by economics. Sadly, this appears to be just the case.
The reason capitalism "works" better than Marxism is that it appeals more strongly to basic human greed and reluctance to be forced to do things. Communism is more overt in its manipulation of the masses. Here, more people can get more of the pie than under a Marxist setup, up to a point; Sort of misleading, since people do what they're forced to every day, they just call it something else, and imagine that they're doing what they want.


You make it sound like capitalism and marxism are equal but somehow we are fooled into thinking they're not. They may be equal at some abstract, arm chair philosopher level but in practice, both the pie and the distribution of that pie differ ENORMOUSLY. The pie is probably a few thousand % bigger under capitalism and distributed much more equally.

The "Great Leap Forward" in communism created at least 1000% less wealth than the wealth created during the Great Depression in the U.S. And most of the gains created were mostly distributed to a small group of party members while the common folk who were allegedly suppose to "benefit" from the equality of communism either scrapped enough to survive or starved to death.

So as [censored]*py as capitalism is, I'll take my chances in Great Depression USA over the glory days of communism in any communism country that ever existed.

 

[MarkC]

No, I didn't say they are equal at all. I said they both consider human beings to be economic entities and life is driven by economics.
You're saying that "the pie" is indeed distributed under capitalism, just as under communism, just more pie and bigger pieces of it. I didn't even say the word "distributed".
You're right about who gets most of the goodies. That wasn't my point.

 

[VeeDubb]

Yes, I got your basic points about economic entities and people being forced into doing things under different guises in both systems. But without including some details, your points are misleading. At every level, whether its economic, social, spiritual, scientific, human rights, environmental, etc etc communism societies have simply failed relative to capitalist countries. So I really don't care about some similarities at some abstract, general level.

 

[oilyriser]

There is a reason why market systems are better. It begins with the letter E, and has four syllables. So far, nobody seems to have pinned down why competitive free market systems are better. They keep giving examples, but don't know why one succeeds and one fails.

 

[VeeDubb]

Well, then by all means, enlighten us.