Carry gun

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Astro14

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I'm not arguing about patterns or which projectile is better . My point is about firing ANY weapon in the dark when you can't see what your shooting at . Unless you live alone and nobody else has a key to your home , firing blindly is pretty stupid .
We completely agree.

And my point was that a shotgun doesn’t change the foolishness of firing in the dark, just as you had said. Even if one lived alone, you need to be certain of the target, or tragedy could well be the result.

A small pattern spread, and it is small, doesn’t change tactical employment, aiming, being certain of target, any of that, over any other weapon.

I was responding to the post to which you had responded - the one that stated that a shotgun doesn’t require aim.

Pure fantasy. Shotguns need to be aimed.
 
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We completely agree.

And my point was that a shotgun doesn’t change the foolishness of firing in the dark, just as you had said. Even if one lived alone, you need to be certain of the target, or tragedy could well be the result.

A small pattern spread, and it is small, doesn’t change tactical employment, aiming, being certain of target, any of that, over any other weapon.

I was responding to the post to which you had responded - the one that stated that a shotgun doesn’t require aim.

Pure fantasy. Shotguns need to be aimed.

“be sure of your target and what’s behind it.”

imho too many folks choose a pump-action, 12ga, shotgun loaded with 00 buckshot for home protection because of hollywood. do you have a practice venue, enjoy shooting it, are you physically able to hold and use it without short-stroking it, are you a hunter or sporting clays enthusiast…? a high-capacity, semiauto, 9mm pistol may look good in john wick’s hands but that is a (dangerous) fantasy for perhaps 90% of us.

most “normal” folks who want “something” for protection may be better off with a 22lr firearm, at least to start. if they stop with a 22lr, but know how to properly and accurately use it, they are better off than most folks. any firearm is a tool. unless you are practiced using and maintaining a home or carry protection piece, it becomes a talisman and perhaps even a liability.
 
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Not sarcasm, rhetoric.

The shotgun pattern at seven yards is 2-4” depending on load, barrel, and choke.

Point is, that with a 4” spread, max, It’s just as easy to miss with a shotgun as it is with anything else. It is not magic. Your odds of hitting aren’t significantly different.

You absolutely must aim a shotgun as accurately as you aim any firearm in a self defense encounter.

“No need to aim” is myth.
This right Here, Hollywood has warped the general public's perception of shotguns anyone who has done any pattern work with a shotgun at "home defense" ranges knows the above statement to be a fact. AND for any Home Defense use you absolutely must think about over penetration of any round ( this includes 00 Buck ) in a standard drywall/2x4 built house in any kind of neighborhood. Being in a "Justified" shooting where you accidentally hit a neighbor/bystander/family member with a stray round is not something I would wish on anyone...
 
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We completely agree.

And my point was that a shotgun doesn’t change the foolishness of firing in the dark, just as you had said. Even if one lived alone, you need to be certain of the target, or tragedy could well be the result.

A small pattern spread, and it is small, doesn’t change tactical employment, aiming, being certain of target, any of that, over any other weapon.

I was responding to the post to which you had responded - the one that stated that a shotgun doesn’t require aim.

Pure fantasy. Shotguns need to be aimed.
Everyone's an expert.
 

Astro14

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For home, can't beat a 12 ga cylinder barreled shotgun. No need to aim, just point.
I objected to the latter part of this statement, that’s all.

I agree that a shotgun can be a good choice. A long gun is easier to aim accurately. A 12 gauge has plenty of power, it’s very effective. Many shotguns have decent capacity.

But they have considerable recoil that matches that power. A long gun can be unwieldy in tight quarters. Buckshot and slugs have great penetration through drywall, a consideration with neighbors in close proximity. They require training, just as handguns do.

I recognize the merit of a shotgun for home defense. It’s a good choice, as long as realities of shotguns are understood.

I also recognize the merit of a carbine, and I’m firmly in the carbine camp, for lower recoil, greater capacity, and similar ease of aiming.

Now, back on topic - carry gun.

My choice: Sig P365XL with the Romeo Zero sight and a Wilson Combat grip module, tungsten inserts. The latter added/updated since I first posted in this thread.

Pros: capacity and size. Cons: none, honestly. A bit more snappy under recoil than, say, a G19, but the Wilson grip is awesome, and the tungsten rods add just a bit of weight down low, and I find it comfortable, even enjoyable, to shoot at the range.

I think this is an important point: you have to shoot your carry gun often. You must be familiar/comfortable with it. I’m leery of carry guns that hurt to shoot, because folks tend to avoid regular practice with them. That leaves you in an untenable position - trusting your life to something with which you’re not familiar.

Neutral: I’m still getting used to the reflex sight. Several range sessions and I’m more easily able to shoot it both eyes open. That’s a tactical advantage. The sight eats batteries quickly, about every six weeks, because it wakes up with motion, and when carrying, it’s always in motion.
 
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This right Here, Hollywood has warped the general public's perception of shotguns anyone who has done any pattern work with a shotgun at "home defense" ranges knows the above statement to be a fact. AND for any Home Defense use you absolutely must think about over penetration of any round ( this includes 00 Buck ) in a standard drywall/2x4 built house in any kind of neighborhood. Being in a "Justified" shooting where you accidentally hit a neighbor/bystander/family member with a stray round is not something I would wish on anyone...
This. My Glock 19 by my bed is just to get me to my Remington 870. However, I live in tight construction suburban layout up against 2 neighbors houses. A miss with a 9mm is headed straight into the neighbors kitchen, so I’m loaded with only #4 buck in the shotgun. Even a miss won’t leave the confines of my property.
 
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Home guns: Glock 17, Mossberg 500 with a light

Carry gun: (summer) Kahr P07 or PM7 (winter) CZ P-07 40 cal. The PM7 is for when I wear dress clothes and need a pocket gun.
 

M56959

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Folks if we have to moderate this topic again it will be closed and that member may find their posting privileges suspended or worse.

Stay on topic. Skip the political virtue signaling from all sides.

Everyone posting agreed to follow the rules. Honor your commitment.
 

ZeeOSix

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Look, if 00 Buck magically spread out at 7 yards, to a human size target, then you couldn’t hunt deer with it, because the spread at 50 yards wouldn’t hit anything. Basic arithmetic would tell you that.
A full bore cylinder is ~15 inches at 7 yards. It's ~40 inches at 25 yatds. Probably be about 8-9 ft at 50 yards. Any shotgun for home defense needs to be full bore cylinder (no choke).
 
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