Careers.....Boomers vs Millennias

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Originally Posted by StevieC
Originally Posted by maxdustington
"If you treat your employees like slaves, they will behave like mercenaries"


This should be the first thing taught to them in the MBA program and then ask them during their final exam if they can remember the first thing taught to them and if they can't they fail.



The whole investors -> CEO -> management -> employees predator food chain now demand more than before. Algorithm based trading will not tolerate a bad quarter of losing money, every penny spent is "just in time" or the CEO is not doing his or her job.

Which brings me to my next point: the best time to switch job is when you are happy with your job. You have the best bargaining power. I stayed at a company I'm happy with for 7 years and my pay increased 20% overall, then I switch job 3 times in 3 years (sweatshop, old boy's club, then a dumpster fire) and my pay double. I learned, and I earned, and now just do my share of fire fighting and get my check.
 
I'm a millenial and from what i've seen switching jobs is the only way to get more pay, employers are very content to only offer low cost of living increases otherwise. I'm doing fairly well at the same company for 12 years but i did have to move within the company to get my pay up. Boomers had it easier, the rest of the world's factories were bombed in the war, and they were protected by tarriffs and immigration policy. Competing with chinese wages eliminated any job security. You can still do well, but it takes more work.
 
Originally Posted by Alfred_B
Also, the best way to increase your earnings is to switch a job every 2-3 years.

It has worked for me... But I do 3-5 years. I've always made more than the previous job and this current job they found me and fought to get me. That's pretty great.
 
Originally Posted by Powerglide
This situation didnt happen overnight. Its genesis is rooted in the late 1960s. Women wanted careers and financial independence-a good thing. But, the labor supply doubled. The process and the results were and are COMPLETELY predictable.


Or the 1940-45. Woman found freedom and weren't to appreciative of having to go back to the kitchen in order to free up a spot on the line for a returning GI.
 
Defined benefit pension plans went away in many businesses long before millennials got into the workforce. It was a matter of money and the uncertain cost of providing these guaranteed monthly stipends.
 
Originally Posted by SeaJay
Defined benefit pension plans went away in many businesses long before millennials got into the workforce. It was a matter of money and the uncertain cost of providing these guaranteed monthly stipends.


Yep. They shouldn't complain the won't get pensions cause they were long gone before they started working.

Even if pensions were offered, lots of younger folks wouldn't stay and look for another job after a few years.
 
Im 65 worked as a programmer most of my life....in IT its almost impossible to work at on place 5 years anymore ....my last job was at IBM selling servers...yeah i made huge bucks....but felt lucky to make it over 5 years before i retired at 50
 
A boomer. What I think changed is the gradual turn to no loyalty from the employer. It used to be a company was great if it had slow steady growth, a solid workforce etc. That changed to how can I beat next quarters profit prediction. The stockholders are very much to blame for the need to out perform every quarter. Companies moved to caring only about the bottom line. Production moved overseas for cheap labor, or in my day, moved south for no unions. Actuaries totally blew it when predicting how long people would live and no one mandated that pensions be fully funded. Companies could no longer afford the pensions based on the poor actuarial forecasts, well, based upon the new ones with longer life expectancies. Thus, self funded retirement accounts. The employer was in the comand position, that is now changing to the employee.

If I were working today I would have no loyalty since the employer has none towards me.
 
Yeah I hear you ....that give us 2 week notice crapola.....IBM does not give any notice if they lay you off and ive seen 100's get the tap on the shoulder never to be seen again.
When I left i walked in on a Monday and told them its my last day...IBM in turn took my badge and told me they would mail my stuff within 2 weeks.....plus had a guard walk with me to my car and made sure i left....I told him dont worry im never coming back...he looked at me and said "man i wish i was you" good luck.
The women in HR told me i should have gave 2 weeks notice...My answer was I dont see you give anybody 2 weeks notice when you cut them....its a 2 way street my friend. I have no regrets leaving at 50.
 
gmh101358 said:
Yeah I hear you ....that give us 2 week notice crapola.....IBM does not give any notice if they lay you off and ive seen 100's get the tap on the shoulder never to be seen again.
When I left i walked in on a Monday and told them its my last day...IBM in turn took my badge and told me they would mail my stuff within 2 weeks.....plus had a guard walk with me to my car and made sure i left....I told him dont worry im never coming back...he looked at me and said "man i wish i was you" good luck.
The women in HR told me i should have gave 2 weeks notice...My answer was I dont see you give anybody 2 weeks notice when you cut them....its a 2 way street my friend. I have no regrets leaving at 50.
Click to expand...
Not disagreeing, but keep in mind you had the luxury of not caring about burning bridges since it was your last gig.
 
Older Millennial here. Once pensions went away there was less of a reason for loyalty to a company. At the end of the day you really “work for yourself” for the best weeks wages and working conditions you can get.

The closest thing to an incentive to stick with a company are 401k matches and vesting but even then it’s generally only a 3-6 year commitment before you’re fully vested. Your 401k goes with you when you change jobs.

The last company I worked for was an ESOP but it didn’t impress me. Most companies I know that pay pensions are Unions or government.

My grandfather has been retired from the phone company for 30 years on full pension. Those were the days…
 
GMFan said:
Older Millennial here. Once pensions went away there was less of a reason for loyalty to a company. At the end of the day you really “work for yourself” for the best weeks wages and working conditions you can get.

The closest thing to an incentive to stick with a company are 401k matches and vesting but even then it’s generally only a 3-6 year commitment before you’re fully vested. Your 401k goes with you when you change jobs.

The last company I worked for was an ESOP but it didn’t impress me. Most companies I know that pay pensions are Unions or government.

My grandfather has been retired from the phone company for 30 years on full pension. Those were the days…
Click to expand...
My father got out of the Army in WW2 ....went to Texas A &M and got a mechanical eng degree and worked for Conoco his whole life ....he retired and Depont bought out Conoco i think in 1980.....anyway with his stock options he was millionaire overnight ....my luck....he remarried had no will and died a few weeks after his 58th b-day in 1982.....his "new" wife got everything.....she was 36 he was 58 ....or about 1.4 million ....I got 10k. She did alright for a bimbo.
I wasted 2k on a lawyer.....nothing could be done. He had told my mother he had a will with my brother and me getting everything....he lied and did not....im still mad at him 40 years later for lying. When i die the first thing im going to say to him is "you a-hole"
 
gmh101358 said:
Yeah I hear you ....that give us 2 week notice crapola.....IBM does not give any notice if they lay you off and ive seen 100's get the tap on the shoulder never to be seen again.
Click to expand...

That's my fear for working for any big tech company or contractor. They can tell you the minute you walk in the door in the morning that they don't need you anymore and then you're SOL. I've realized that my loyalty lies in people instead of the company.
 
A nice resurrection of a thread...

Things have changed in the last few decades. There are very few companies that offer defined benefit pensions. There are very few companies that will not lay off staff at the first bad quarterly result.

The environment is different, and one can possibly blame the boomers for creating this mess.
 
Vil_Riker said:
A nice resurrection of a thread...

Things have changed in the last few decades. There are very few companies that offer defined benefit pensions. There are very few companies that will not lay off staff at the first bad quarterly result.

The environment is different, and one can possibly blame the boomers for creating this mess.
Click to expand...
Possibly? That's nicer than I'd put it, the blame falls squarely on their shoulders because they care more about their retirement accounts and "investments" than other people. Great example of this, I saw a headline the other day blaming "millennials" for wanting a housing market crash because it would hurt retirement and/or investment incomes. Yeah, because home prices are so inflated right now that nobody except investors buying up houses to rent (or use as an airbnb which is even worse) can afford houses. A housing market crash would benefit us, but since that would negatively impact boomers we become the bad guys. It's apparently a one-way street.

This mindset is also driving the increasingly short-sighted stock/investment markets where quarterly results are essentially the only thing that matters. Execs have no incentive to plan for long-term success, they just care about driving up the stock value enough in the short-term to be able to get out filthy rich and they don't care what happens after that. The revolving executive door and short-sighted investors are destroying companies left and right and are contributing to a lack of caring about employees which results in apathy and lack of loyalty from employees.

And older folks wonder why millenials (and Gen Z now) don't want to work 70 hours a week to the benefit of their company like they did. I work my 40 hours (still too many, the US should go to a 32 hour standard week at the same pay as other countries are starting to do) and only work OT if I'm asked and the need is great. My personal time is far more valuable to me.
 
Pew said:
That's my fear for working for any big tech company or contractor. They can tell you the minute you walk in the door in the morning that they don't need you anymore and then you're SOL. I've realized that my loyalty lies in people instead of the company.
Click to expand...
Worked for a big IT MSP and saw this all too often, both with the onsite teams and the offshore admin teams. Not only could/would they do that, the client could also get rid of you simply by telling the MSP that they no longer need your services, and you're instantly gone. Unless you're fortunate enough to get into IT for a company directly it's a rough industry to work in, especially since more and more companies are going with MSPs.

Not just that but working for MSPs SUCK. They are an incredibly margin driven business so things like raises, bonuses etc are pretty much nonexistent, and management always prioritizes the bottom line over everything else.
 
K.Aoi said:
And older folks wonder why millenials (and Gen Z now) don't want to work 70 hours a week to the benefit of their company like they did. I work my 40 hours (still too many, the US should go to a 32 hour standard week at the same pay as other countries are starting to do) and only work OT if I'm asked and the need is great. My personal time is far more valuable to me.
Click to expand...
This paragraph speaks volumes as to the attitudes of the different generations.
 
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