Careers.....Boomers vs Millennias

[Pew]

Loyalty didn't bring anything when manufacturing giants moved out and left dead husks of previously glorious cities nor did it help when my CEO decided to cut an entire department out, including folks who has been with us and the industry for decades. Humans change, civilization change, technology change. To judge the current and new workforce based off what mom and pop did half a century ago is asinine and arrogant. And the pay? Don't get me started on that. My friend's parents were able to support a family of 6 with a decent house while working grocery store jobs. Try just living by yourself now while working at a grocery store and see how that goes.

This paragraph speaks volumes as to the attitudes of the different generations.

That paragraph speaks volumes on the need of labor policies changes from previous generations who were to engrossed in themselves to think we're not in the 1960s anymore. Sorry, but I'm not working to pay off the poor policies and planning from 80-something year old people that are so engrossed in their own profits. Nor am I going to stay at a company that does not fulfill my wants and needs. The older I get, the less I jump on the bandwagon of "the young generation are weak and have no work ethic" and more on the "older generations are unaccepting and unapologetic to change."

We make things easier for the next generation, just to complain that they have it easier.

tl;dr - we're tired of being told we need to work hard, just to be put in a job ruled by corporations or unions who have no emotion and no recourse for personal well-being.

 

[tbm5690]

And the pay? Don't get me started on that. My friend's parents were able to support a family of 6 with a decent house while working grocery store jobs. Try just living by yourself now while working at a grocery store and see how that goes.

Have wages kept up with inflation? Absolutely not. But I also think it's pertinent to point out the fact that people today also spend like bonkers compared to what used to be "normal". Families on grocery store salaries also didn't have expectations to own two brand new vehicles, yearly expensive vacations, etc. which is now "the norm".

 

[nomas]

I'm a Boomer I guess . Retired after 40 yrs in the same Industry . NOT the same employer . All of them had Pensions and 401k . My last employer did away with the Pension for new hires a couple of years before I retired . They bumped up the 401k match a couple of percent .

 

[UncleDave]

In my experience, small companies are the most stingy with benefits. Why does nobody want to work in restaurants or stores now? Because you usually get zero benefits. No health insurance, no paid time off or sick time, no life insurance... Why would you work for them? Out of the goodness of their heart?

They can be, they can also be pretty generous.

I wouldn't work for an employer that didnt give me any bennies.

We have healthcare , PTO, 401K match, yearly raises (so far ), bonuses when the company does well.

When it doesn't do well as the CEO Im the first to get bennies clipped - as it should be.

We also let people have a decent amount of rope and slack and understand that sometimes you need some help, or a small loan, or an extra day.

I dont think its out of line to expect some mutual respect back when you do treat people well.

 

[K.Aoi]

Have wages kept up with inflation? Absolutely not. But I also think it's pertinent to point out the fact that people today also spend like bonkers compared to what used to be "normal". Families on grocery store salaries also didn't have expectations to own two brand new vehicles, yearly expensive vacations, etc. which is now "the norm".

I legitimately do not know a single person who takes "yearly expensive vacations". Maybe a few small trips here and there but nothing like what you're implying.

 

[Pew]

Have wages kept up with inflation? Absolutely not. But I also think it's pertinent to point out the fact that people today also spend like bonkers compared to what used to be "normal". Families on grocery store salaries also didn't have expectations to own two brand new vehicles, yearly expensive vacations, etc. which is now "the norm".

I feel like that's generalizing and oversimplifying the issue but I do agree to some extent. I know a few people who are spendy and don't know how or when to save. Honestly, I've noticed that the most with people who didn't have good parents or if their parents didn't know how to save either (humans tend to be a product of their environment.)

 

[tbm5690]

I legitimately do not know a single person who takes "yearly expensive vacations". Maybe a few small trips here and there but nothing like what you're implying.

Maybe too specific of an example. Vacations, toys, electronics, fill in the blank.

 

[K.Aoi]

Maybe too specific of an example. Vacations, toys, electronics, fill in the blank.

What, people shouldn't want to be able to live comfortably and have some toys? There is some perception among some of the population that there isn't enough wealth to go around for everyone to live happily and comfortably and have a few toys. That is a falesehood perpetuated by those that own multiple yachts. If you look at the gap between average worker pay and executive pay over the last 50-60 years you'll see why regular wages have not kept up with inflation, they've all gone to the top of the organizations. I don't think blaming the average person who wants to live a comfortable life is really the appropriate response

 

[Pew]

Maybe too specific of an example. Vacations, toys, electronics, fill in the blank.

It may be more of the environment they grew up in. As we grow up, we see the things our parents have and in turn we want them; maybe subconsciously but we now have a standard or a minimum line that we perceive as acceptable. As time, technology, and society progresses (like the ease and ability to travel compared to 50 years ago), that "minimum" tends to increase with our needs and wants. If not by us per se, then by our children and the future generations.

 

[K-Man]

I don't buy the claim that shareholders today demand CEOs jack up profits, or else the CEO will be forced out. Most companies today, especially newer tech giants such as Amazon, have stopped paying or never did pay dividends. That means no dividends for shareholders. The only way for shareholders to profit is selling stocks if the value goes up, and cuts don't necessarily raise the stock value.

Cuts and layoffs by CEOs are more about big executive bonuses for themselves and cronies on the executive board. Remember all the figures about how the big-time CEOs make hundreds of times what their lowest-wage workers make?

This has to be said, though: that company I worked for in the 1980s was employee-owned, and it was run just as badly as any publicly owned corporation. Managers were after bonuses.

 

[alarmguy]

tl;dr - we're tired of being told we need to work hard, just to be put in a job ruled by corporations or unions who have no emotion and no recourse for personal well-being.

I’m confused by your post but this one stands out.
Your a free individual no one is telling you anything. If you don’t like what’s available you can start you own company instead of work for someone, the vast majority of people are happy with their lives and if they are not they it’s up to them to change

 

[K.Aoi]

I don't buy the claim that shareholders today demand CEOs jack up profits, or else the CEO will be forced out. Most companies today, especially newer tech giants such as Amazon, have stopped paying or never did pay dividends. That means no dividends for shareholders. The only way for shareholders to profit is selling stocks if the value goes up, and cuts don't necessarily raise the stock value.

Cuts and layoffs by CEOs are more about big executive bonuses for themselves and cronies on the executive board. Remember all the figures about how the big-time CEOs make hundreds of times what their lowest-wage workers make?

This has to be said, though: that company I worked for in the 1980s was employee-owned, and it was run just as badly as any publicly owned corporation. Managers were after bonuses.

Naive thinking- wall street and stock prices are no longer grounded in reality. They are speculation, pure and simple. The most telling thing is if a company reports good quarterly results, but maybe fell a little bit short of shareholder projections, the stock TANKS, often in the double digit percentages. Most wallstreet stockholders are focused entirely on short-term results, and care not at all about long-term sustainability. It's about more growth more now at the expensive of long-term. Modern execs are a function of this, because most of their compensation is in the form of stock options, so they are personally motivated to drive up profits short term- cutting costs and improving margin by cutting employees, raising prices, and then getting out while the getting is good and cashing out their stock.

 

[alarmguy]

I don't buy the claim that shareholders today demand CEOs jack up profits, or else the CEO will be forced out. Most companies today, especially newer tech giants such as Amazon, have stopped paying or never did pay dividends. That means no dividends for shareholders.

Dividends have nothing to do with it.
Profits have everything to do with the value of the company and its stock price.
Companies with healthy profits reward invest with higher stock prices greatly increasing the value of their holdings.
Amazon example https://www.forbes.com/sites/shelle...th-sales-hitting-386-billion/?sh=2a2541131334

 

[tbm5690]

What, people shouldn't want to be able to live comfortably and have some toys? There is some perception among some of the population that there isn't enough wealth to go around for everyone to live happily and comfortably and have a few toys. That is a falesehood perpetuated by those that own multiple yachts. If you look at the gap between average worker pay and executive pay over the last 50-60 years you'll see why regular wages have not kept up with inflation, they've all gone to the top of the organizations. I don't think blaming the average person who wants to live a comfortable life is really the appropriate response

Not saying it's wrong to have toys, but you can also live comfortably and not have toys. I get the impression there are many who make payments on multiple new vehicles, over-buy on the house to fit in with the Joneses, then complain that it's getting harder and harder to live. Again, not saying the wage gap isn't growing and isn't a problem, but people just feel entitled to more than they used to as a whole. Not talking being OK with poverty, but being OK with the fact that there will always be things that we want and realistically just can't have.

 

[jeepman3071]

Have wages kept up with inflation? Absolutely not. But I also think it's pertinent to point out the fact that people today also spend like bonkers compared to what used to be "normal". Families on grocery store salaries also didn't have expectations to own two brand new vehicles, yearly expensive vacations, etc. which is now "the norm".

Many people are not financially responsible, but it is also taught to them at an early age that debt is just a fact of life and they should take on more. My parents went to college in the early 80s, and rented apartments while going to state colleges and only working part time. They paid for school as they went. When I went to college (2008) there was no way I'd get approved for an apartment around here only working part time while being in school. I lived home, commuted, worked full-time, and somehow graduated with no debt. I was the minority then, and with tuition costs I'm not sure that is even possible now. People are graduating college with mountains of debt, and most have a car payment. $30-35k starting salary isn't going to cover that plus an apartment lease.

 

[PimTac]

As relevant today as it was fifty years ago when this was written.



“You were under the impression
That when you were walking forwards
That you'd end up further onward
But things ain't quite that simple
You got altered information
You were told to not take chances
You missed out on new dances
Now you're losing all your dimples”

 

[BMWTurboDzl]

Have wages kept up with inflation? Absolutely not. But I also think it's pertinent to point out the fact that people today also spend like bonkers compared to what used to be "normal". Families on grocery store salaries also didn't have expectations to own two brand new vehicles, yearly expensive vacations, etc. which is now "the norm".

Wages haven't kept up but employer costs have risen (i.e. healthcare) and there has been more competition (domestic and worldwide) among the labor pool. Life is hard.

 

[Dave Hess]

No job or career is perfect.

35 years at my employer and I stayed for the benefits, pension, low stress, good working conditions, etc….

Younger folks today don’t hesitate to change employers in a blink of an eye if it offers more pay / benefits…… I don’t blame them for jumping around. If you’re at a dead end job, look for better opportunities.

 

[JTK]

No job or career is perfect.

35 years at my employer and I stayed for the benefits, pension, low stress, good working conditions, etc….

Younger folks today don’t hesitate to change employers in a blink of an eye if it offers more pay / benefits…… I don’t blame them for jumping around. If you’re at a dead end job, look for better opportunities.

Very much agree.

Gen-X'er her if that means anything. Born in 1970.

25yrs with my employer this past June. I think what kept me with the same employer so long was marriage, kids and being the only earner. Very little room for risk once you accept that challenge. It's been about 12yrs since I've considered other employment opportunities, but I have looked and interviewed elsewhere. I either turned them down for various reasons or wasn't given an offer.

My rate of pay, benefits and a defined pension is what's kept me. I also enjoy my job and feel valued there, which are important things.

 

[CKN]

Very much agree.

Gen-X'er her if that means anything. Born in 1970.

25yrs with my employer this past June. I think what kept me with the same employer so long was marriage, kids and being the only earner. Very little room for risk once you accept that challenge. It's been about 12yrs since I've considered other employment opportunities, but I have looked and interviewed elsewhere. I either turned them down for various reasons or wasn't given an offer.

My rate of pay, benefits and a defined pension is what's kept me. I also enjoy my job and feel valued there, which are important things.

As stated-this is extremely rare-these days. Do new hires have access to the plan?