Carcarenut picks M1 over TGMO for GR Corolla

[Highboy]

These guys Dyno it after a 600 plus mile break in. A little light on the horsepower at the wheels.

 

[edyvw]

These guys Dyno it after a 600 plus mile break in. A little light on the horsepower at the wheels.

They focused exclusively on appliance vehicles for decades. You can’t wake up one morning and decide to built serious contender in category. It will be fun car to drive etc. but, over time, long time players will prove more appealing to crowd that likes those cars.

 

[Highboy]

They focused exclusively on appliance vehicles for decades. You can’t wake up one morning and decide to built serious contender in category. It will be fun car to drive etc. but, over time, long time players will prove more appealing to crowd that likes those cars.

I agree.

 

[PimTac]

They are light and handle well. But under high G turns, they starve out of oil. Not the first vehicles to have that issue, but considering that they built it for that crowd, they didn’t do basic homework.

I understand some cars suffer from the same thing just getting their oil changed.

 

[edyvw]

I understand some cars suffer from the same thing just getting their oil changed.

That is separate issue related to variable oil pumps.
This has to do with prolonged high G turns. Some BMW’s had that issue mostly related to the fact that in inline six there is a lot of space for oil to go around. But, in M models you get two oil pick up lines to address that issue as M is designed to go on track.
FRS etc. were hotly anticipated by track crowd and the fact it is happening in 4 bangers is nothing but lack of attention to details. The worst was that they tried to blame drivers for it. Also, not surprising from Toyota.
Also, they had RTV related issues that was bombing rod bearings.

 

[chris719]

That is separate issue related to variable oil pumps.
This has to do with prolonged high G turns. Some BMW’s had that issue mostly related to the fact that in inline six there is a lot of space for oil to go around. But, in M models you get two oil pick up lines to address that issue as M is designed to go on track.
FRS etc. were hotly anticipated by track crowd and the fact it is happening in 4 bangers is nothing but lack of attention to details. The worst was that they tried to blame drivers for it. Also, not surprising from Toyota.
Also, they had RTV related issues that was bombing rod bearings.

It’s a Subaru engine, so the fact that it’s garbage is unsurprising.

The way the 86 and FA20 were developed and how bad they are from a reliability standpoint should debunk the myth that Toyota improved or had a real hand in B58 development.

 

[edyvw]

It’s a Subaru engine, so the fact that it’s garbage is unsurprising.

The way the 86 and FA20 were developed and how bad they are from a reliability standpoint should debunk the myth that Toyota improved or had a real hand in B58 development.

The only reason people talk about ANY Toyota involvement in B58 is that they have been telling themselves that Toyota still can make anything resembling serious performance.
It goes: We need BMW to make car for us, but we will tell them how.
If it wasn’t comic, it would be tragic.

 

[NismoNVT]

I guess everyone here drives a Bugatti Chiron, which shares a similar 187ish+ HP/Liter output?

/s

The mechanical engineering behind the GR Yaris and Corolla are world dominating. The issue though is that their hot hatches.

These GR versions Toyota has been rolling out are just to wet the appetite to say the least

 

[wemay]

Technically, Supra doesn’t need LL17FE as it is on paper, a Toyota product.
Bcs. it is Toyota product, doesn’t need LL17FE.
But, in reality it is BMW product and it has same requirements as, well, BMW products.

Can you share a link with this information? If it's not on the bottle or the pds, it doesn't have that approval.

Not every GR product is/was developed with BMW. The GR Corolla is one example.

Side note: why do you choose to bash Toyota every chance you get?

 

[OVERKILL]

I guess everyone here drives a Bugatti Chiron, which shares a similar 187ish+ HP/Liter output?

/s

The mechanical engineering behind the GR Yaris and Corolla are world dominating. The issue though is that their hot hatches.

These GR versions Toyota has been rolling out are just to wet the appetite to say the least

I mean, it's gonna get dominated by a 20 year old M car, the owner of which isn't going to give two hoots about how many HP/L it makes. 0-60 in north of 5 seconds and a high 13 at 101Mph in the 1/4 aren't exactly impressive I'm sure it handles well, but still, it's not going to be showing Mustangs, Camaros or many SUV's its tail lights light to light with Boy Racer behind the wheel.

 

[wareze]

I guess everyone here drives a Bugatti Chiron, which shares a similar 187ish+ HP/Liter output?

/s

The mechanical engineering behind the GR Yaris and Corolla are world dominating. The issue though is that their hot hatches.

These GR versions Toyota has been rolling out are just to wet the appetite to say the least

Thats what I said earlier. The GR line ups are still new and its going to be awhile before Toyota launches anything like the Euro brands have been doing for awhile.

 

[PimTac]

Thats what I said earlier. The GR line ups are still new and its going to be awhile before Toyota launches anything like the Euro brands have been doing for awhile.

In my opinion that is not the direction Toyota is going with this and that’s a good thing. This is a consumer oriented car for those who want more excitement and cutting edge technology that is being developed through Toyota’s higher end Gazoo models.

 

[NismoNVT]

I mean, it's gonna get dominated by a 20 year old M car, the owner of which isn't going to give two hoots about how many HP/L it makes. 0-60 in north of 5 seconds and a high 13 at 101Mph in the 1/4 aren't exactly impressive I'm sure it handles well, but still, it's not going to be showing Mustangs, Camaros or many SUV's its tail lights light to light with Boy Racer behind the wheel.

Oh I agree. And if that's your thing, I think a Tesla/Kia EV has that category locked down. Light to light destruction.

This is more about on track performance. The GR corolla/Yaris are essentially rally ready. What does that mean?

The visceral experience, the way the vehicle feels on the track and how much control input will the vehicle allow to the driver is different then its competitors. The same with G16E-GTS; its a purpose built engine. It has very strong mid-range torque which is what's needed for rally cars. Its top end torque is actually very weak since rally cars have low top speeds. You see this in drag races where the GR has very fast 1/4 mi time but low trap speed.

While I understand this will probably not matter to most folks who just want to go fast, but if you really nerd out on the minute details and want a honed in product, Toyota is the brand.

That said, theres a lot of stuff in the pipeline, especially in the higher $ budgets.

 

[NismoNVT]

In my opinion that is not the direction Toyota is going with this and that’s a good thing. This is a consumer oriented car for those who want more excitement and cutting edge technology that is being developed through Toyota’s higher end Gazoo models.

Just a side note/internal program target thing.

GRMN products need to be race ready from the factory (i.e. just add safety gear and race it)

 

[DuckRyder]

I was really just bagging on car care guy earlier, but 215 wheel HP for 40 grand...

I will take a GTI and 8 grand change...

 

[edyvw]

I guess everyone here drives a Bugatti Chiron, which shares a similar 187ish+ HP/Liter output?

/s

The mechanical engineering behind the GR Yaris and Corolla are world dominating. The issue though is that their hot hatches.

These GR versions Toyota has been rolling out are just to wet the appetite to say the least

World dominating? Please elaborate. I mean, I know people buy Highlander bcs. they just need reliable vehicle, and then start comparing it to X5, but “world dominating?” From company that couldn’t make diesel engine that doesn’t fall apart before 100k km? And then had to buy it from BMW?
Also, Mercedes has 4cyl with 222hp per liter.
I mean it is good car, but seriously…

 

[edyvw]

I was really just bagging on car care guy earlier, but 215 wheel HP for 40 grand...

I will take a GTI and 8 grand change...

What 8 grand? Some dealers want aftermarket “adjustment” $10k and over

 

[edyvw]

Oh I agree. And if that's your thing, I think a Tesla/Kia EV has that category locked down. Light to light destruction.

This is more about on track performance. The GR corolla/Yaris are essentially rally ready. What does that mean?

The visceral experience, the way the vehicle feels on the track and how much control input will the vehicle allow to the driver is different then its competitors. The same with G16E-GTS; its a purpose built engine. It has very strong mid-range torque which is what's needed for rally cars. Its top end torque is actually very weak since rally cars have low top speeds. You see this in drag races where the GR has very fast 1/4 mi time but low trap speed.

While I understand this will probably not matter to most folks who just want to go fast, but if you really nerd out on the minute details and want a honed in product, Toyota is the brand.

That said, theres a lot of stuff in the pipeline, especially in the higher $ budgets.

It is not track ready car.
There has to be too many modifications to get them track ready. I see some, SOME in the sea of BMW’s on track. And those some are heavily modified with superchargers and accusumps so they don’t disintegrate engine during cornering.
Here in CO they tend to overheat super fast, and unlike BMW where you can easily “borrow “ oil coolers from bigger engines, in Toyota you can’t do that. You have to shell much more money.
It is not that M model is going to be faster on track, any 240 will.

Their torque in high revolutions is not bcs. rally cars have low torque. That is absolutely ridiculous statement. Their torque is not as good bcs. to achieve what BMW does, it takes more money, know how, complexity. That statement reminds me of ridiculous statements by some people how Toyota “helped” BMW with BMW engine, and it turned out BMW had Supra ready and no Toyota engineers touched it for six months.
And by the way, if Toyota had such know how, Supra wouldn’t be made in Austria.

Again, good cars, not worth that price.

 

[Nesterenko]

They focused exclusively on appliance vehicles for decades. You can’t wake up one morning and decide to built serious contender in category. It will be fun car to drive etc. but, over time, long time players will prove more appealing to crowd that likes those cars.

That Sienna that you have or had really must've done a number on your head, Ed. The love is shining through, very blindingly

 

[edyvw]

That Sienna that you have or had really must've done a number on your head, Ed. The love is shining through, very blindingly

Nah, I still have Prado in Europe. But I really want to hear about this world domination. Or how they did not focus on appliance vehicles?