Cant find the ACEA requirement for my 2006 Toyota 1.8 vvti

[Garak]

Originally Posted By: Gokhan
Originally Posted By: Kamele0N
VHVI or XHVI is not grp. III+....its basic grp. III

You don't know the terminology. Group III+ doesn't mean Group IV (PAO). It means better Group III base stocks, primarily characterized by their higher viscosity index (VI) than for lower-quality Group III base stocks.

You're both right, and are just not wording it very elegantly. Group III+ isn't anything official, just something made up by oil companies to differentiate a certain product over "ordinary" Group III offerings. On one hand, there are some pretty find products called Group III+. On the other hand, every major oil company out there (and some not so major) has Group III products they differentiate from everyone else's. Chevron and their ISOSYN or whatever it is, Shell and PurePlus, Mobil and Visom, Petro-Canada and PURITY base oils....

 

[Gokhan]

Originally Posted By: YotaVerso
Found a 5w30 Eneos Premium Hyper S at a great price. "Designed for modern engine technologies from Toyota, Honda and
other Japanese, European and American OEMs requiring ACEA C2 standard oils"

http://eneos.eu/wp-content/uploads/2016/11/PREMIUM-HYPER-S-5W30-FULLY-SYNTHETIC-PDS.pdf

OK, given the "great price," if I were you, I wouldn't hesitate to go with this oil. Eneos is made by Japan's No. 1 oil company, tailored for Japanese cars, and has the right specs (correct HTHSV and API SN certification). I'm sure it's a very high-quality oil with a good Group III base oil, good additive package, and decent dose of moly. Go for it!

 

[zeng]

Well, the goal posts had been kept shifting ..... hence

 

[kschachn]

Originally Posted By: Gokhan
Originally Posted By: YotaVerso
Found a 5w30 Eneos Premium Hyper S at a great price. "Designed for modern engine technologies from Toyota, Honda and
other Japanese, European and American OEMs requiring ACEA C2 standard oils"

http://eneos.eu/wp-content/uploads/2016/11/PREMIUM-HYPER-S-5W30-FULLY-SYNTHETIC-PDS.pdf

OK, given the "great price," if I were you, I wouldn't hesitate to go with this oil. Eneos is made by Japan's No. 1 oil company, tailored for Japanese cars, and has the right specs (correct HTHSV and API SN certification). I'm sure it's a very high-quality oil with a good Group III base oil, good additive package, and decent dose of moly. Go for it!

The product he is referencing is not API SN. It doesn't appear on the API website and it is not labeled properly for an SAE 5W-30 oil.

 

[Gokhan]

Originally Posted By: kschachn
The product he is referencing is not API SN. It doesn't appear on the API website and it is not labeled properly for an SAE 5W-30 oil.

It's labeled SN, A5/B5, and C2. Strangely, no Resource Conserving (GF-5) though.

 

[kschachn]

It is not API licensed. In fact, as far as I can determine it has none of the cets listed in the data sheet.

Your first clue about not being an API oil is the way the grade is shown.

 

[Gokhan]

Originally Posted By: kschachn
It is not API licensed. In fact, as far as I can determine it has none of the cets listed on the container.

Your first clue about not being an API oil is the way the grade is shown.

Well, Eneos is made by Japan's No. 1 oil company. Does the OP really care whether it's officially licensed by API or not if Eneos claims that it meets the API specs? I'm sure it's a great oil. They probably wanted to reduce the licensing costs because it's being marketed in the EU. Also, there isn't much difference between a synthetic SN Resource Conserving/GF-5 and an A5/B5 or a C2. So, the OP will definitely be fine with this oil.

 

[kschachn]

Originally Posted By: Gokhan
Originally Posted By: kschachn
It is not API licensed. In fact, as far as I can determine it has none of the cets listed on the container.

Your first clue about not being an API oil is the way the grade is shown.

Well, Eneos is made by Japan's No. 1 oil company. Does the OP really care whether it's officially licensed by API or not if Eneos claims that it meets the API specs? I'm sure it's a great oil. They probably wanted to reduce the licensing costs because it's being marketed in the EU. Also, there isn't much difference between a synthetic SN Resource Conserving/GF-5 and an A5/B5 or a C2. So, the OP will definitely be fine with this oil.

Lol sure.

Which of those compared specs that you’re leveraging against each other does the oil actually have again?

 

[Garak]

With Eneos, I'd probably trust the claims. That being said, if one really needed a C2 oil, there would probably be builder approvals one would be more interested in satisfying in the first place. So, it is a bit strange, to say the least.

 

[kschachn]

Originally Posted By: Garak
With Eneos, I'd probably trust the claims. That being said, if one really needed a C2 oil, there would probably be builder approvals one would be more interested in satisfying in the first place. So, it is a bit strange, to say the least.

Understood, but at the same time it isn't as if this is the only oil the OP has considered nor is available to him. As such I'd pass right by any manufacturer that makes what amounts to false claims on their label. We sometimes talk about "oil company ethics" here on Bitog, and for me, one of the ethical things they can do is produce labeling and data sheets that clearly state the specifications that the oil carries and those that are "recommended" (or as ExxonMobil uses, "According to ExxonMobil”).

Some companies are better than others at this, and to be honest that label is one of the most egregious examples I've seen to try and deceive the consumer. It certainly deceived at least two of the participants in this thread.

 

[zeng]

Originally Posted By: kschachn
It is not API licensed. In fact, as far as I can determine it has none of the cets listed in the data sheet.

Your first clue about not being an API oil is the way the grade is shown.

I don't see the obsession with official API registration of this Eneos 5W30 C2 in OP's context, in Europe.
Whilst selecting engine oil in Malaysia , I ignore API ratings and registrations in Asian engines that calls for it, for there are plentiful supply of ACEA oils of appropriate viscosity grades.

 

[kschachn]

Originally Posted By: zeng
Originally Posted By: kschachn
It is not API licensed. In fact, as far as I can determine it has none of the cets listed in the data sheet.
Your first clue about not being an API oil is the way the grade is shown.

I don't see the obsession with official API registration of this Eneos 5W30 C2 in OP's context, in Europe.
Whilst selecting engine oil in Malaysia , I ignore API ratings and registrations in Asian engines that calls for it, for there are plentiful supply of ACEA oils of appropriate viscosity grades.

It appears the obsession is with Eneos.

 

[Gokhan]

Quote
It appears the obsession is with Eneos.

What/whose obsession with Eneos? You're imagining or making things up. Also, enough with this silly licensing thing that you hijacked OP's thread with.

OP said that he found this at a great price and that's why I recommended it -- none of the other oils he found has A5/B5 or C2 at a good price.

 

[kschachn]

Originally Posted by Gokhan
Quote
It appears the obsession is with Eneos.

What/whose obsession with Eneos? You're imagining or making things up. Also, enough with this silly licensing thing that you hijacked OP's thread with.

OP said that he found this at a great price and that's why I recommended it -- none of the other oils he found has A5/B5 or C2 at a good price.

Are you losing it? The reason I ask is because you accuse me of making things up when clearly it is you and Eneos that are the ones making stuff up. You posted here and told the OP that it was SAE SN, which I pointed out that it is not. I haven't made up one thing in this post or any other post for that matter. I don't make up fictitious quality measurements nor do I make up fictitious API licensed oils.

My comment about obsession was referring to the way Eneos labels that product. It says right on the label "API SN/SM/SF" which by all accounts it is not. They could have stated it that "According to Nippon Oil this product is of the following quality level", but they don't. They are the ones obsessed with trying to convince the consumer that the oil is something when it is not.

 

[Gokhan]

Originally Posted by kschachn
Originally Posted by Gokhan
Quote
It appears the obsession is with Eneos.

What/whose obsession with Eneos? You're imagining or making things up. Also, enough with this silly licensing thing that you hijacked OP's thread with.

OP said that he found this at a great price and that's why I recommended it -- none of the other oils he found has A5/B5 or C2 at a good price.

Are you losing it? The reason I ask is because you accuse me of making things up when clearly it is you and Eneos that are the ones making stuff up. You posted here and told the OP that it was SAE SN, which I pointed out that it is not. I haven't made up one thing in this post or any other post for that matter. I don't make up fictitious quality measurements nor do I make up fictitious API licensed oils.

My comment about obsession was referring to the way Eneos labels that product. It says right on the label "API SN/SM/SF" which by all accounts it is not. They could have stated it that "According to Nippon Oil this product is of the following quality level", but they don't. They are the ones obsessed with trying to convince the consumer that the oil is something when it is not.

OK, so, "the obsession is with Eneos" means not someone is obsessed with Eneos but Eneos is obsessed with something. Fine, my bad!

Everyone has told OP that any oil will work in his car. Eneos has the correct HTHSV ~ 3,0 spec (= A5/B5 or C2), is a very high-quality oil, and OP has found a great bargain for it. I don't understand the fuss about licensing or the wording on the bottle or product data sheet. We are talking about the equivalent of ExxonMobil in Japan here, not some convenience-store-brand oil. If I was in OP's country, I would have no problem using this oil in a Toyota given the lack of HTHV ~ 3.0 cP oils at a good price over there. Sure, he can also find a bargain for HTHSV > 3.5 cP oils (10W-40 anyone?), which are standard in OP's country, despite the cold climate, and they will work fine, but there is no need for them in a Corolla and they will suck more from his already lowly engine-power output.

 

[YotaVerso]

@ka9mnx the mobil1 5w30 is what you call the vanilla mobil1? Cant find it here. Only esp formula, 3000 xe and fe.

@Gokhan yeah, thats the word about eneos here. Everyone is very happy with it, BUT i think i will pass up on that great bargain i found. There was some talk that Eneos is not faked like the other oils, but found some info that it could be. Also it seams that some smaller vendors here are selling a lot of fake oil. Im not willing to risk it and going to buy ony from the more reputable chains. The price of Eneos from these reputable chain is about the same as mobil 1 esp formula and im starting to lean toward that. I think it is a very good oil, but it would be much nicer if they got the approvals. Check out the label on the photos you posted. Designed for high performance in modern diesel engines and a simmilar text on the back. My next choice of eneos would be the hyper multi, but the specs are not very good. I have a couple other options but it's very frustrating when you cant find a datasheet for a product like the Ford Formula F 5w30, which is a a5/b5 oil, but no api spec. In some stores you can see it, others dont have it and some stores has it listed as SN, others as SL. I cant trust that. The price is very good. The specs are:

https://www.engine-oil.ie/Engine-oil/Ford/5W-30-Formula-F/p-OIL-187

ACEA A5/B5
Ford WSS-M2C913-C (includes WSS-M2C913-A and WSS-M2C913-B)

I found an explanation to these approvals: The oil shall meet all the requirements of the ILSAC GF-2 and GF-3 specification, the ACEA A1-98 and B1-98 specification and additional Ford requirements.

But why no api rating?? These whole industry is such a mess

What do you all think about using this Ford oil in my Toyota? Cag get it for 6,25$ per liter.


Other choice is Elf Evolution 900 SXR 5W30

http://www.lubs-products-database.total.com/gallery/ORIGINALS/visuels/21500/21993

International specifications ACEA : A5/B5
API: SL/CF
OEMs specifications RENAULT RN0700(except 2.0 16V Renault Sport, 2.0 T Renault Sport, V6 Renault Sport)
FORD WSS-M2C913-D (back-compatible FORD WSS-M2C913-C)
JAGUAR STJLR 03.5003

Can get it a bit cheaper that Fords oil and at least they have the api rating right there.


If i dont go for these two, im going for mobil1 esp formula, since they claim it meets A5/B5 and has the c2, c3, sn, dexos2 and a couple man. approvals. Im basically paying 50% more for this oil in comparison the Ford or Elf, but considering the number of cold starts and very short rides i do, i should go for something that is very good at least as im not that sure on these two..

And feel free to hijack as much as you like

 

[Gokhan]

The only oils with the correct HTHSV ~ 3.0 cP for your car are A5/B5 and C2. dexos2, C3, A3/B4, etc. are thick oils (HTHSV > 3.5 cP).

If you get the C2, it will be very similar to SN even if it doesn't carry SN. I would avoid A5/B5 unless it has C2 or SN as well, as otherwise, it's probably high-SAPS and will decrease the life of your catalytic converter and oxygen sensor. A3/B4 is also high-SAPS and will decrease the life of your catalytic converter and oxygen sensor.

 

[Gokhan]

By the way, the correct spec for your car is not API SN (or SM) -- it's ILSAC GF-5 (or GF-4). The difference is that ILSAC has HTHSV ~ 3.0 cP (or less for xW-20). For example, Mobil 1 and Castrol 0W-40 carry SN or SM but they don't satisfy ILSAC GF-5 or GF-4 since HTHSV > 3.5 cP.

Therefore, unless you can find an ILSAC GF-5 or GF-4 oil, ignore the SN rating and go with a C2 oil.

Avoid GF-3, GF-2, and GF-1 oils, as they potentially have too much ZDDP (phosphorus), which is bad for your catalytic converter and oxygen sensor.

 

[YotaVerso]

There are very few i could find that have a5/b5 with sn, but too expensive. So, c2 without a5/b5 would be fine? Have a couple good choices there. Have to check again for gf4 or 5 with the right hthsv value. Usually they dont even list the gf here. Only acea and api. Thanks for the explanation

 

[Gokhan]

Originally Posted by YotaVerso
There are very few i could find that have a5/b5 with sn, but too expensive. So, c2 without a5/b5 would be fine? Have a couple good choices there. Have to check again for gf4 or 5 with the right hthsv value. Usually they dont even list the gf here. Only acea and api. Thanks for the explanation

Actually, any C2 is perfect for your car. You don't need additional specs. It has the correct HTHSV ~ 3.0 cP and is mid-SAPS. A5/B5 could be high-SAPS.

You can call ENEOS Europe if you're worried that it's counterfeit.