Can We Trust the 2004 Election Outcome?

Status
Not open for further replies.
needtoknow. I sign a register when I vote. Why on earth I would need a receipt, I don't know?

To me, It's like asking a cash business to record the serial numbers of all the currency they have collected.

Is there fraud involving elections? I don't know. I would guess that the Presidential election is pretty much decided in 40 states and ten are up for grabs. I'm from NY, my vote will not decide anything, mostly my vote will be a protest vote as there is no desire among the Republicans to challenge Schumer in the senate race so if they ran Deputy Dawg, he would get my vote.

The people that believe in these vast conspiracies will always believe in them, especially when things do not work out as they wanted.

JMO
 
I read through posts like this and I understand why so many people are turned off by politics.

It seems we hold no one accountable for anything they say anymore. Anything written on paper or distributed on the internet is instantly fact.

I hate having to filter the news I read or hear anymore. Balance in news reporting is dead - its all slanted one way or another...
 
cool.gif
Here in Pittsburgh, the head of the local NAACP has his day job at a psychiatric hospital. He has been seen taking vanloads of patients to one polling place after another to vote with the names of Democratic candidate written on their hands. The state will do nothing since the bureaucracy is all Democrat too. It's just "how things are done."
rolleyes.gif
 
Groucho, You sign the register to create a paper trail on your voter eligibility. If there is a question about it then it's there for checking. As for the election being decided by 10 states that seems to be true. But it makes the integrity of a clean election that much more important. What if a Democratic computer hacker caused Kerry to win, where would all the Bush supporters stand then on election honesty? Why should this be a left/right issue?
Here's some more info on the importance of a paper trail, more can be had from the web site as I did not want too long a post:
http://www.notablesoftware.com/evote.html
ELECTRONIC VOTING UPDATE
Voter Verified Paper Ballots -- An Informational Brochure:

An explanatory brochure has been prepared in response to the myths and misinformation that are currently being circulated by those who are opposed to independent election auditing. "Facts About Voter Verified Paper Ballots" can be downloaded, printed on double-sided paper, and freely distributed (if in its entirety and unedited).


The Act that is not helping America Vote:
The 2002 Help America Vote Act (HAVA) legislation authorized $3.8B in federal spending, with a substantial portion of these funds allocated to US states and terrirories for the purpose of replacing their punch card and lever voting machines and making voting systems accessible to the disabled. To obtain the money, an implementation plan must be submitted to the Election Assistance Commission by January 1, 2004. Note that states are not required to purchase computerized voting systems, they can still obtain mark-sense (optically scanned) products, but in order to receive certain of the equipment funds, the plan must indicate that the state will replace all of its lever and punch card machines by the first election for Federal office held after January 1, 2006.

The Presidentially appointed 4-member HAVA Election Assistance Commission, in addition to approving each of the state plans, will also be responsible for administering a host of other tasks, not the least of which include overseeing a 14-member Technical Guidelines Development Committee and a 110-member Standards Board, and making provisions for "testing, certification, decertification, and recertification of voting system hardware and software by accredited laboratories." The Technical Guidelines Committee must produce a set of recommended voluntary voting system guidelines nine months after appointment, and it is understood that these guidelines would be the ones used by the laboratories in their certification and testing processes.

Only problem is, the members of the HAVA Commission were appointed nearly a year late. As well, HAVA Committees and Boards have yet to be established. Thus, the Technical Guidelines were NOT available by the time that state implementation plans were due. This resulted in 9 states requesting HAVA extensions, and many others contracting to purchase voting systems that can not possibly be HAVA compliant, since there does not yet exist any official HAVA standards. A further setback occurred at the beginning of 2004, when the National Institute of Standards and Technologies (NIST) announced that it had to curtail all work related to HAVA (despite their named role in the legislation), due to Federal budget cuts.


Those of us (including myself) who had worked hard for this bill are sorely disappointed that the VITAL security aspects of its implementation continue to be stalled, while the equipment purchases are allowed to proceed. Write your congressfolk and urge them to get things moving. You are welcome to attach a copy of the statement by Rebecca Mercuri on HAVA and Electronic Voting to your letter.
 
needtoknow, I have seen many elections where the voting machines were impounded. I do not recall an instance of fraud once. The Florida election seemed to point toward not so much toward fraud, but toward ignorance.

It comes down to how much money do we want to spend to ensure people know who they are voting for? Do we have to make voting like making change at a store where the cashier looks up at the display 3 or 4 times to make sure he/she is counting out the correct change? Is this the final product of our educational system?

I'm not sure who is making money off this overhaul of the voting process, but I am sure someone is.

Not to mention, the percent of people who actually turnout is small, so the greater majority really does not care for this reform as they do not speak on the issue nor vote. Isn't that what democracy is about?
 
double post

ps: bush and kerry, neither of these two boys are worth defending, there grown up now, they don't need any breaks
 
quote:

Originally posted by GROUCHO MARX:
Not to mention, the percent of people who actually turnout is small, so the greater majority really does not care for this reform as they do not speak on the issue nor vote. Isn't that what democracy is about?

cool.gif
If you do not vote, you are doomed to be ruled by those who do.
--Jon from Pittsburgh, where a city's financial health is inversely proportional to the number of elected Democrats.
lol.gif
 
Electronic voting is clearly the wave of the future, but they've got a long way to go towards security. The Diebold voting systems -- the 800 lb gorilla of the industry, and the same folks who build many bank ATMs -- have weak security. I had trouble finding a link to it, but I think it was an NBC/Tom Brokaw news segment the other night that reported that, when hired to hack into the Diebold system for testing purposes, some former NSC (spy agency) computer geeks managed to do so within minutes. If this isn't substantially improved, it's basically GUARANTEED they'll be voting shenanigans at some county, somewhere.
 
Maybe 10 years ago my county switched to an electronic voting system. It is called Micro-Tech or something. One of the few things our county clowns got right. There is a blue suitcase sized box. Open it and unfold the side curtains, and you have a column of push buttons and names. At the bottom you have 3 buttons, Forward, Back, and over at the side a big red one marked Cast ballot. You can push one of the top buttons to vote straight ticket, or go through and push the individual buttons. Even after you push the straight party ticket, you can go down and change individual offices. You can toggle for, not for all you want. You can only vote for one, but you can change back and forth as much as you want. You can't push the cast ballot vote until you have looked at all the pages. It seems to work fine. After the polls close, the cartridges are removed and taken to election central. All the votes are counted in time to get to bed. Recounts seldom make any difference.

I worked as an election official one of the first years we used it. Since nobody wanted to admit they needed help, I rattled on and on over how to do it.

I am a little concerned about security. Still we know the security of paper ballots, punch cards, lever machines, etc. stink. With the propensity of lying, I suspect those shrieking the most about security are afraid their old methods of stealing votes won't work anymore. The military did give up their internet voting plans due to security problems.
 
Like the engine management systems that tell the OEM how fast you drove during warranty, electronic systems will always be prone to tampering (any system will be, but it's easier to pick up someone marking ballot papers after a vote).

How many on this BB knew that they were paying for a silly flight simulator with the programmers names on it when they bought Microsponge excell ?
 
I prefer the old style "X" marks the spot method. At least it's visable to everyone at the polling station which is usually staffed by all sides. If there's a spoiled ballot it's easily voided and replaced with a paper trail. Part of the drive for techno voting is instant results, nobody can wait a day or two for results but I think we are giving up a huge amount of confidence in the system. Especially when you have one company (Republican Supporter) doing the contract.
 
Sorry, it sounded like a bunch of drivel and a waste of time to me. I haven't heard it from a source that I would trust that Diebolt is promising to deliver the election for Bush. Even if so, I wonder if they meant was, they were going to do it by what the Democrats fear most, an honest count?

All the nonsense posted earlier in this thread has destroyed your credibility. If our highly biased, liberal media has missed the story, it must be more than they think they can sell.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top Bottom