Can we trust any manufacturer about anything anymore? (Using my Toyota transmission as an example)

[KrisZ]

I may be stupid but who is Mike Sweers?

You and me both. No idea who that guy is either.

 

[MNgopher]

So no actual evidence that what Toyota has done actually will cause premature destruction, and your use is clearly one that doesn't push the system out to the limits (ie: you state you never tow, 90% of your driving doesn't fully heat the unit up, etc...). And you are going to get rid of it before mileage becomes an issue. What are we worrying about again?

No idea who Mike Sweers is, but I also wonder why trolling them online based on the above is worth anyones time... Oh yeah - it's BITOG, so that's "normal" here...

FWIW, when you state "Every other pickup or vehicle with a tow package uses an external cooler", perhaps you mean Toyota? As an example, F150's with the 10 speed do not have an external air cooler - they are all cooled with a water to oil cooler on the transmission itself. Ditto for the same unit in my Explorer with the tow package...

 

[SwampSurvivor]

I believe yours will still have the thermostat mounted on the transmission, where mine is, saving you that component.

My grand marquis is the first vehicle I've had with the trans thermostat. It's in the cooler itself so that's good. It operates in bypass mode so it'll bypass the big factory cooler if the temp is under 180 (which is pretty warm for these older transmissions) and go through the additional cooler anyway. Then if it gets above 180 it'll go through both. I think it's pretty foolish...

 

[TumblrDucks]

There is no lifetime fluid, no matter it's coolant or transmission fluid. My Sonata hybrid also claim the ATF is lifetime. Believers usually find they have a slippery trans around 100k miles. My ATF also routinely reach 220F, even 230F+ on long haul highway travel. As a result blackstone lab found my ATF is burned just around 20k. I would recommend adding a cooler and keep 2 years/20k as change interval.

 

[CKN]

So the OP has a warranty that will cover any issues for the time he stated he is going to keep the vehicle. Another poster stated real world evidence suggest it's not a concern.

There are some real idiots out there on the road towing trailers way past 65mph. Maybe that's the issue.

 

[slacktide_bitog]

You can always change the ATF more often. The job should be easy in your Tundra

 

[JeffKeryk]

I am a strong believer in the WS Lifetime Fluid. Lifetime is 30K and WS is Idemitsu or Maxlife.

 

[4WD]

I am a strong believer in the WS Lifetime Fluid. Lifetime is 30K and WS is Idemitsu or Maxlife.

Yeah - it’s 30k for maybe my $5 Dex VI … but after the initial pan dump (around 20k) … I‘ll be going longer with that ZF unicorn tears stuff - $20/quart on eBay - and Mopar is $30 …
(plus the pain of the weird service protocol)

 

[4WD]

This is a hotly debated issue…

I own a 2020 Tundra and have been presented ZERO evidence compelling the argument one way or the other (IN MY CASE). On a few rare occasions the temp has spiked to about 230 ish however the temps drop extremely quick so in my opinion the puck is doing something right.


I have done a ton of research on the subject. The pre 2019’s with the factory installed coolers are usually within single digits of mine (in some cases as little as 4 degrees). Yes heat will cause a transmission to break down sooner but I don’t buy for one second 10 degrees is going to have the same transmission die at warranty’s end vs the 250k + of a cooler installed one. Life time fluids is BS which goes to your point OP about not trusting manufacturers.


There are many owners installing aftermarket coolers which are lowering the temps past that of the factory installed coolers. They are much higher quality and have larger surface areas hence the better performance. NO ONE addresses this PERIOD, it gets completely glossed over. Again these temps continually get compared to the puck version of the Tundra. That’s a inaccurate comparison and simply a misrepresentation of facts.



Speed is another factor glossed over. The Tundra manual states 65 mph max for towing, I have never had any problems with transmission temps at that speed. Many people balk at this. It’s highly common to have a 1/2 ton towing a travel trailer at 75 mph + in the left lane flying past you in my area of the country. This will kill a transmission but it doesn’t stop anybody from driving like that.

I drove commercial trucks for many years and dropping a gear in the mountains greatly helps to reduce tranny temps and keep them in check. Same goes for my Tundra when towing.

No black and white answer has been presented. In my honest opinion it’s a case by case basis. There are some that would benefit and there are some that would not.

Half these Bubba drivers don’t know the ST tire speed ratings either

 

[4WD]

As for the hoses - zero failed in decades of aftermarket coolers …
Take a ferrule and crimp it on the metal line with a fitting - release fitting …
… that creates a clamp stop/barb for the hose …

 

[Silver]

You know the answer. You just don't want to believe we've reached another low. Watching a species devolve is scary and uncomfortable.

 

[PWMDMD]

This is a hotly debated issue…

I own a 2020 Tundra and have been presented ZERO evidence compelling the argument one way or the other (IN MY CASE). On a few rare occasions the temp has spiked to about 230 ish however the temps drop extremely quick so in my opinion the puck is doing something right.


I have done a ton of research on the subject. The pre 2019’s with the factory installed coolers are usually within single digits of mine (in some cases as little as 4 degrees). Yes heat will cause a transmission to break down sooner but I don’t buy for one second 10 degrees is going to have the same transmission die at warranty’s end vs the 250k + of a cooler installed one. Life time fluids is BS which goes to your point OP about not trusting manufacturers.


There are many owners installing aftermarket coolers which are lowering the temps past that of the factory installed coolers. They are much higher quality and have larger surface areas hence the better performance. NO ONE addresses this PERIOD, it gets completely glossed over. Again these temps continually get compared to the puck version of the Tundra. That’s a inaccurate comparison and simply a misrepresentation of facts.



Speed is another factor glossed over. The Tundra manual states 65 mph max for towing, I have never had any problems with transmission temps at that speed. Many people balk at this. It’s highly common to have a 1/2 ton towing a travel trailer at 75 mph + in the left lane flying past you in my area of the country. This will kill a transmission but it doesn’t stop anybody from driving like that.

I drove commercial trucks for many years and dropping a gear in the mountains greatly helps to reduce tranny temps and keep them in check. Same goes for my Tundra when towing.

No black and white answer has been presented. In my honest opinion it’s a case by case basis. There are some that would benefit and there are some that would not.

Thanks for the reply! Yeah, as I said, I have a "glam truck" and she does little to no real work, I don't drive a lot so I think my plan of new WS fluid every 50K sounds reasonable, and should the transmission ever give up the ghost it will still be under warranty.

 

[PWMDMD]

I may be stupid but who is Mike Sweers?

The head engineer for the Tundra. Somehow he has a weird "following" in the Tundra community and he belongs to a few Tundra FB groups. I do not have any idea who the lead engineer was for any other vehicle I've ever driven but I know Mike Sweers.

 

[Oey12]

Thanks for the reply! Yeah, as I said, I have a "glam truck" and she does little to no real work, I don't drive a lot so I think my plan of new WS fluid every 50K sounds reasonable, and should the transmission ever give up the ghost it will still be under warranty.

No problem, I plan to do the same or 40k fluid changes because it’s my weekend/family vehicle. Won’t hurt and doesn’t cost that much. I have a 10 year Toyota warranty that I purchased through a different dealership than my purchasing dealership. It was 65% cheaper…. So my transmission is covered as well. I am very interested to see how this all plays out. However I have yet to see a rash of failed transmissions. There are cases but some were heavily modified or severely abused (my opinion).

 

[PandaBear]

Design and manufacturing is all about tradeoffs. Is it the best for you? You have to decide. It is likely good enough to meet all the requirements for everyone they target but there is no way to test all of them, only approx.

You still need to trust someone whenever you buy anything or make any decision in life. If you don't trust anyone you have to walk or perpetual lease.

 

[frankbee3]

View attachment 115051
Put the cooler on.

Now that is a proper transmission cooler! Lots of surface area.
Did you happen to notice how much cooler your transmission runs on average ls1mike?

 

[zzyzzx]

Why is it seemingly that it's always coolers that seem to be cut?

 

[Cruisin'n5thgear]

Can't speak to Toyota, but I was towing 4k lbs with a total vehicle and trailer weight of 10k lbs (Yukon XL) and trans temps were around 165, never above 180 in hills and with speeds of 75 plus. I'd be concerned about above 200 unladen in my application.

FWIW.

 

[Dave Hess]

If you plan on keeping your Tunda long term the cooler is worth installing.

Yep and use quality parts for everything.

 

[drtyler]

The owners I have seen showing ATF temps that are too low are those pinning the thermostat open, so that it is bypassed.

If the thermostat is left to operate normally, the ATF temps are fine and seem equivalent to those with pre-2019 Tundras w/ factory cooler. The factory cooler built into the AC condenser on the pre-2019 models is not small.

There are many owners installing aftermarket coolers which are lowering the temps past that of the factory installed coolers. They are much higher quality and have larger surface areas hence the better performance. NO ONE addresses this PERIOD, it gets completely glossed over. Again these temps continually get compared to the puck version of the Tundra. That’s a inaccurate comparison and simply a misrepresentation of facts.