Can anyone offer proof that K&N is inferior?

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http://www.trueflow.com/video/product.wmv

case closed for me. K&N will know be going into my Autos!

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Typical informercial #@$%!.
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Sure knocks the K&N.
The paper filter had better results.
I do believe that though.

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I'm not tring to sell anyone on trueflow. I could care less about true flow. The useful part was seeing all the #@$%! that got by the K & N. That's all.
 
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I might be able to offer some proof with my next UOA. Had a K&N on most of my last OCI which showed relatively high silicon in UOA. Changed to AEM Dryflow and hope the next UOA will show lower silicon. Butt dyno told me instantly upon the filter change that the K&N flowed more air. Stay tuned.

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Maybe not proof, but at least some anecdotal evidence that's good enough for me that the AEM filtered better:

latest UOA
 
One thing we got to remember is the later K&Ns are better than the older versions as they are redesigned because they had issues.

I for one had a correctly oil (from the factory) K&N on my 99 2500 Ram CTD and could wipe dirt out of my intake tube. There are numerous posts on other boards about CTD "engine dusting" and most of the time it was traces to a K&N Filter (whether it filtered poorly or fit poorly).

I also remember about an airfilter test done (it was on the web) that proved a K&N was about the worst filter you could buy, and an AC Delco paper element was about the best filter you could buy...I would need to look that up, but it was (to me) a very conclusive test.

And again, the K&Ns have been redesigned so they might not be as bad. I have ran K&N and Tru-Flo, and the Tru-Flo performed much better than the K&N as far as dirt capturing.

I have since resorted back to more frequent changes of a stock paper filter that is more/less proven.

steved
 
I plan on doing the same thing, taking my K&N out and checking for dirt/oil.

I have the Series 77 Intake on my F150 and the drop in filters on the two cars....
 
I can't believe how many people actually think a K&N filter (or any "high flow" for that matter) improves your gas mileage. When was the last time anyone ever checked their mileage at WOT? That's the only place that a higher flowing air filter will accomplish anything if indeed the engine's airflow demands exceed the flow capability of the stock paper filter.

When you're attaining maximum MPG, your throttle plate is nearly closed, thus reducing the amount of both fuel and air entering the engine. Even the poorest flowing paper filter is definitely sufficient to support the small demand of air in a vehicle that's cruising for MPG.

Think of it as a faucet with a hose attatched. A 5/8" hose will not flow as much water as a 3/4" one when the faucet is turned wide open, but turn the faucet down to a trickle, and measure the amount of water coming out of both hoses after a minute, and you'll have the same amount in both containers.

People want things to work, so therefore they do work whether they really do or not.
 
i have been driving my '92 jeep cherokee for over 100,000 miles and i have been using a k&n ever since i got my license and driving this same jeep. I love the K&N drop-in filter and service every so often. I give them K&N a kudos for being the FIRST to use the dropin oil style filter element and cone filter. All the other companies after the 10 year span of the K&N filter patent were then able to start making their on kind of filter using the K&N idea.
 
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I can't believe how many people actually think a K&N filter (or any "high flow" for that matter) improves your gas mileage. When was the last time anyone ever checked their mileage at WOT? That's the only place that a higher flowing air filter will accomplish anything if indeed the engine's airflow demands exceed the flow capability of the stock paper filter.


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I use a K&N and syn oil in my 04 Accord, my 04 CR-V gets paper and dino. UOA's are nearly identical, and the numbers look almost like VOA's after 6-7500k miles.

MikeGT, put your hand over the intake of any motor turning an easy and constant 2-3k rpm. The WOT only theory is baseless.

K&N increase MPG's? Actually, mine went down. Doesnt that make sense though? More air needs more fuel to keep the same air/fuel ratio the ECM is programmed to hold.
 
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I can't believe how many people actually think a K&N filter (or any "high flow" for that matter) improves your gas mileage. When was the last time anyone ever checked their mileage at WOT? That's the only place that a higher flowing air filter will accomplish anything if indeed the engine's airflow demands exceed the flow capability of the stock paper filter.


Click to expand...


I use a K&N and syn oil in my 04 Accord, my 04 CR-V gets paper and dino. UOA's are nearly identical, and the numbers look almost like VOA's after 6-7500k miles.

MikeGT, put your hand over the intake of any motor turning an easy and constant 2-3k rpm. The WOT only theory is baseless.

K&N increase MPG's? Actually, mine went down. Doesnt that make sense though? More air needs more fuel to keep the same air/fuel ratio the ECM is programmed to hold.

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unless your air to fuel ratio is already at 14.1 or higher, no it doesnt work like that.
 
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I can't believe how many people actually think a K&N filter (or any "high flow" for that matter) improves your gas mileage. When was the last time anyone ever checked their mileage at WOT? That's the only place that a higher flowing air filter will accomplish anything if indeed the engine's airflow demands exceed the flow capability of the stock paper filter.


Click to expand...


I use a K&N and syn oil in my 04 Accord, my 04 CR-V gets paper and dino. UOA's are nearly identical, and the numbers look almost like VOA's after 6-7500k miles.

MikeGT, put your hand over the intake of any motor turning an easy and constant 2-3k rpm. The WOT only theory is baseless.

K&N increase MPG's? Actually, mine went down. Doesnt that make sense though? More air needs more fuel to keep the same air/fuel ratio the ECM is programmed to hold.

Click to expand...

No. Now I would agree with more air equals a leaner condition if you had a air leak behind your MAF or something.
 
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I can't believe how many people actually think a K&N filter (or any "high flow" for that matter) improves your gas mileage. When was the last time anyone ever checked their mileage at WOT? That's the only place that a higher flowing air filter will accomplish anything if indeed the engine's airflow demands exceed the flow capability of the stock paper filter.


Click to expand...


I use a K&N and syn oil in my 04 Accord, my 04 CR-V gets paper and dino. UOA's are nearly identical, and the numbers look almost like VOA's after 6-7500k miles.

MikeGT, put your hand over the intake of any motor turning an easy and constant 2-3k rpm. The WOT only theory is baseless.

K&N increase MPG's? Actually, mine went down. Doesnt that make sense though? More air needs more fuel to keep the same air/fuel ratio the ECM is programmed to hold.

Click to expand...

No. Now I would agree with more air equals a leaner condition if you had a air leak behind your MAF or something.

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ok guys....your all saying no no no, but not explaining anything.

If more air comes in and FI car/truck, it DOES NOT create a lean condition! Thats what O2 sensors aid in...picking up too much or too little O2 in the exhaust. Thus the fuel system compensates.

So, why doesnt it make sense that IF the K&N allows the engine to breath more, it would be adding a bit more fuel to compensate....so there ISNT a lean condition.

More air+fuel = more power. Its not one sided...as in only more air creates more power. You need both.

To me, this sounds like a grade school auto shop lesson. And if I'm all wrong, at least exaplain why I'm wrong.
 
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Quote:

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I can't believe how many people actually think a K&N filter (or any "high flow" for that matter) improves your gas mileage. When was the last time anyone ever checked their mileage at WOT? That's the only place that a higher flowing air filter will accomplish anything if indeed the engine's airflow demands exceed the flow capability of the stock paper filter.


Click to expand...


I use a K&N and syn oil in my 04 Accord, my 04 CR-V gets paper and dino. UOA's are nearly identical, and the numbers look almost like VOA's after 6-7500k miles.

MikeGT, put your hand over the intake of any motor turning an easy and constant 2-3k rpm. The WOT only theory is baseless.

K&N increase MPG's? Actually, mine went down. Doesnt that make sense though? More air needs more fuel to keep the same air/fuel ratio the ECM is programmed to hold.

Click to expand...

No. Now I would agree with more air equals a leaner condition if you had a air leak behind your MAF or something.

Click to expand...


ok guys....your all saying no no no, but not explaining anything.

If more air comes in and FI car/truck, it DOES NOT create a lean condition! Thats what O2 sensors aid in...picking up too much or too little O2 in the exhaust. Thus the fuel system compensates.

So, why doesnt it make sense that IF the K&N allows the engine to breath more, it would be adding a bit more fuel to compensate....so there ISNT a lean condition.

More air+fuel = more power. Its not one sided...as in only more air creates more power. You need both.

To me, this sounds like a grade school auto shop lesson. And if I'm all wrong, at least exaplain why I'm wrong.

Click to expand...

Well Autodarken I appluad your desire to learn and to "drill down" so I'll take a shot and share with you what I think I know anyway:)
A 02 sensor is just reading oxygen levels. Yes when it reads lean it can richen the fuel/adjust the injector pulses etc. to overcome this lean condition (or rich)...this is accurate....but do not forget An air leak in the intake or exhaust manifold or even a fouled spark plug, for example, will cause the 02 sensor to give a false lean indication. The sensor reacts only to the presence or absence of oxygen in the exhaust. It has no way of knowing where the extra oxygen came from. So keep that in mind.
 
Thanks, but I think I'm missing why we're discussing what an air leak can casue. I made no mention of an air leak in any of my posts.

I was slapped down when I correctly stated my MPG's went down after the K&N install, and offered my oppinion as to why. I was that I'm wrong, but not offered any explaination.
 
I install a KN ...I get more air....my engine adjust to the more air with more fuel. So your mileage went down. But if everything is working properly your engine will adjust back to the proper A/F ratio with the newfound air. So if I start out with a 14.8 A/F at 70mph and 1700rpm with a paper filter....my engine is working harder to get the required air(due air flow restrictions)....throw on a KN ( or highflow air filter)...the engine will relearn the newfound air and adjust to maintain a 14.8 A/F at 70mph and 1700 rpm.....the bottom line is the high flow filters allow less restriction thus more efficiencies= more efficient combustion=better mpg. I was saying the only way I could see any variation in A/F result after putting on a high flow filter was from a air leak. A properly installed high flow filter will allow a more efficient operation resulting in better mpg. Now it will also result in quicker revving/more RWHP. So a fella almost naturally keeps his/her foot in it just as before...except now the engine spins up faster thus less MPG.
 
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