well put...might as well lock the thread now.
Can anyone offer proof that K&N is inferior?
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well put...might as well lock the thread now.
I agree....and disagree with specific statements made.
But I'll leave you with this quote from K&N...
" K&N makes no general fuel economy claims, however we encourage you to try our air filter for yourself. "
If MPG's did go up with higher flow (than OEM) filters...you know darn well they would market that point and pound it our heads.
But I'll leave you with this quote from K&N...
" K&N makes no general fuel economy claims, however we encourage you to try our air filter for yourself. "
If MPG's did go up with higher flow (than OEM) filters...you know darn well they would market that point and pound it our heads.
This was my experience with a K&N short ram. The RPMs spun up faster, but the tradeoff was giving up some torque at the low end. Sure the RPMs spin up, but it takes just as long if not longer than stock for the car to catch up with the RPMs.
I recently went back to stock. I couldn't tell any attributable difference in MPG when I installed the K&N, and don't expect to see any now after switching back.
I agree...I wouldnt put a CAI on a "stock" motor....once you start with heads/cams etc. yes a CAI is in order...
From K&N website in the FAQ's....
Results will vary depending on your vehicle, driving habits, load on the engine (towing for example), existing air system restriction, and other factors. Many K&N users report an increase in miles per gallon. See our testimonial page. K&N air filters and intake kits provide less restriction on your engine’s air intake than typical original equipment manufacturer (OEM) filters and air box systems. Less restriction can provide for more efficient combustion. Our internal testing is performed using employee and customer vehicles. We usually have the cars for a short period of time that will only allow for fit checks and dyno (power curve) testing. If you take advantage of added power by driving harder, you will not see much of a gain, if any, in MPG. Also if you add a K&N filter and the primary source of air restriction in the OEM system is the air box, you won’t see much of a difference in power or MPG unless you add a K&N intake kit to reduce the restriction.
I think the CAI K&N Series 77, with my flowmaster cat back and Hypertech Power Programmer III is a great combo.
Sure it is a great combo. I was thinking more along the lines of a bone stock motor and putting on a CAI. I just haven't seen much (if any) gains from it. Sounds cool though
Now you have modified the exhaust/tune so you betcha...CAI is a good mod to add to that combo. Breath in breath out
Big ol air pump ain't it!
add the Hawk LTS pads with Brembo OEM replacement rotors, Amsoil in the front and rear axles, PS fluid and tranny and transfer case next....
Nasta stainless steel steps...love it!
now if only the manifold studs didn't start rusting off like this F150 is infamous for....
might as well put headers since i have to drop the manifold anyway! (???)
Nasta stainless steel steps...love it!
now if only the manifold studs didn't start rusting off like this F150 is infamous for....
might as well put headers since i have to drop the manifold anyway! (???)
This was posted on an Acura site (from a BBB complaint):
I can't believe K&N does not stand behind their products. It is hard to trust what they claimed and if it could do any better for our engines. This is found from BBB website:
KIM'S CATCH OF THE DAY
K & N FILTERS
HERE'S THE CATCH: Consumers buy air filters based upon the seller's claims of their superiority, with seemingly no drawbacks. When the filters fail, so do other parts of the consumer's car, the warranty, and the company's responses to its complaints. The company's unfulfilled claims remain overinflated.
K&N Engineering, located in Riverside, sells air filters through its website. On the website they describe their air filter's "unique characteristics" which they themselves developed 30 years ago in their desire to win motocross races: a filter that is "washable, reusable, and built to last for the life of an engine." "A Revolution in Air Filter Technology" they claim.
Other claims are that using the filter will NOT void your vehicle warranty, that they warrant the filter for 10 years or one million miles, that it's "engineered to last the life of your engine," that it's designed to "increase horsepower and acceleration" and more.
The filters are described as four to six sheets of cotton gauze layered between two sheets of aluminum wire mesh, pleated and oiled "to enhance its filtering capabilities and overall performance."
Over the years, we've received a complaint about K&N Filters from time to time, but only five altogether in the last three years. Nevertheless, we assign the company an "F" rating. Part of the reason for that rating may become clear from the complaint of Ken Anderson, which he filed with us late last December.
Anderson, who owns a 2002 Nissan Xterra, is a U.S. Army Sergeant First Class with 21 years of military service to his credit at this point and now forwardly deployed in Germany. According to his complaint, he replaced his air filter with one of K&N's, and approximately 100 miles later, his "service engine soon" light came on. He took the car to the dealer, where the trouble was diagnosed as a faulty oxygen sensor.
Anderson had the repairs made under his warranty, but the same problem recurred, caused, again, by a faulty oxygen sensor. This time the mechanics found that the K&N filter was the source of the problem, but this time Nissan declined to cover the repair costs because of the K&N filter that had been installed.
K&N, to whom Anderson first complained, was little help. Anderson reminded them that their answer, in their website's Q&As, to the question of whether use of K&N's filter would void the vehicle's factory warranty, was that it is against the law for a manufacturer to require use of a specific brand of air filter unless it provides a replacement air filter, free of charge, under the terms of the warranty. Yet his experience had been otherwise.
Another question was "Can an engine get too much airflow?" K&N?s answer was no; an engine can take in a fixed volume of air, depending on the engine's size. Yet Anderson had been told, at the time of his vehicle's most recent repairs, that the vehicle was receiving too much air, and because the computer was trying to compensate for the extra air by adding more fuel to the engine, the oxygen sensor set off the codes to service the engine. In response, K&N wanted Anderson to return the filter (at a cost of almost as much as that of the filter itself) so that they could evaluate it and decide whether to refund anything beyond the cost of the filter. Anderson was disinclined to pay further shipping costs in addition to those he had originally paid in order to get his $44. So far, then, he is out a total of $194, which includes the replacement air filter and the oxygen sensor repairs. It does not include Nissan's charges for diagnosing the problem.
K&N did not respond to the complaint Anderson filed with us. Nor did the company respond to that of a Nebraska consumer who incurred a $444 repair bill when oil from service of the filter migrated and damaged his car's fuel injectors. Despite this complainant?s having obtained a small claims court judgment, K&N's general counsel advised him to drop the claim or accept the cost of the filter only.
KIM'S ADVICE: DON'T GET CAUGHT
A few tips can help you avoid making a bad purchase and incurring a costly repair job:
It's very important to get a reliability report on the company before you do business. There's never a reason not to get a report, but it may be even more important in proportion to how attractive the offer is.
Using a credit card to pay for the purchase may help in the case of a product that fails soon after purchase.
Check your warranty carefully before you use parts other than the manufacturer's.
Don't accept all of what you see on a website at face value. In this case the Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act, to which the K&N website refers, does prohibit requiring a purchaser to buy an item from a particular company to use with the warranted product in order to be eligible for service under its warranty.
What K&N doesn't tell you is that a manufacturer is within its rights to specify that the warranty will not cover use of parts that are not equivalent in design or quality to its own parts. If you decide to use other parts, use caution unless you're expert at determining the quality of such parts.
Finally, your warranty may well exclude consequential damages which, as all K&N complainants learned, can result in repair costs that far exceed the cost of the part that caused the damage.
I can't believe K&N does not stand behind their products. It is hard to trust what they claimed and if it could do any better for our engines. This is found from BBB website:
KIM'S CATCH OF THE DAY
K & N FILTERS
HERE'S THE CATCH: Consumers buy air filters based upon the seller's claims of their superiority, with seemingly no drawbacks. When the filters fail, so do other parts of the consumer's car, the warranty, and the company's responses to its complaints. The company's unfulfilled claims remain overinflated.
K&N Engineering, located in Riverside, sells air filters through its website. On the website they describe their air filter's "unique characteristics" which they themselves developed 30 years ago in their desire to win motocross races: a filter that is "washable, reusable, and built to last for the life of an engine." "A Revolution in Air Filter Technology" they claim.
Other claims are that using the filter will NOT void your vehicle warranty, that they warrant the filter for 10 years or one million miles, that it's "engineered to last the life of your engine," that it's designed to "increase horsepower and acceleration" and more.
The filters are described as four to six sheets of cotton gauze layered between two sheets of aluminum wire mesh, pleated and oiled "to enhance its filtering capabilities and overall performance."
Over the years, we've received a complaint about K&N Filters from time to time, but only five altogether in the last three years. Nevertheless, we assign the company an "F" rating. Part of the reason for that rating may become clear from the complaint of Ken Anderson, which he filed with us late last December.
Anderson, who owns a 2002 Nissan Xterra, is a U.S. Army Sergeant First Class with 21 years of military service to his credit at this point and now forwardly deployed in Germany. According to his complaint, he replaced his air filter with one of K&N's, and approximately 100 miles later, his "service engine soon" light came on. He took the car to the dealer, where the trouble was diagnosed as a faulty oxygen sensor.
Anderson had the repairs made under his warranty, but the same problem recurred, caused, again, by a faulty oxygen sensor. This time the mechanics found that the K&N filter was the source of the problem, but this time Nissan declined to cover the repair costs because of the K&N filter that had been installed.
K&N, to whom Anderson first complained, was little help. Anderson reminded them that their answer, in their website's Q&As, to the question of whether use of K&N's filter would void the vehicle's factory warranty, was that it is against the law for a manufacturer to require use of a specific brand of air filter unless it provides a replacement air filter, free of charge, under the terms of the warranty. Yet his experience had been otherwise.
Another question was "Can an engine get too much airflow?" K&N?s answer was no; an engine can take in a fixed volume of air, depending on the engine's size. Yet Anderson had been told, at the time of his vehicle's most recent repairs, that the vehicle was receiving too much air, and because the computer was trying to compensate for the extra air by adding more fuel to the engine, the oxygen sensor set off the codes to service the engine. In response, K&N wanted Anderson to return the filter (at a cost of almost as much as that of the filter itself) so that they could evaluate it and decide whether to refund anything beyond the cost of the filter. Anderson was disinclined to pay further shipping costs in addition to those he had originally paid in order to get his $44. So far, then, he is out a total of $194, which includes the replacement air filter and the oxygen sensor repairs. It does not include Nissan's charges for diagnosing the problem.
K&N did not respond to the complaint Anderson filed with us. Nor did the company respond to that of a Nebraska consumer who incurred a $444 repair bill when oil from service of the filter migrated and damaged his car's fuel injectors. Despite this complainant?s having obtained a small claims court judgment, K&N's general counsel advised him to drop the claim or accept the cost of the filter only.
KIM'S ADVICE: DON'T GET CAUGHT
A few tips can help you avoid making a bad purchase and incurring a costly repair job:
It's very important to get a reliability report on the company before you do business. There's never a reason not to get a report, but it may be even more important in proportion to how attractive the offer is.
Using a credit card to pay for the purchase may help in the case of a product that fails soon after purchase.
Check your warranty carefully before you use parts other than the manufacturer's.
Don't accept all of what you see on a website at face value. In this case the Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act, to which the K&N website refers, does prohibit requiring a purchaser to buy an item from a particular company to use with the warranted product in order to be eligible for service under its warranty.
What K&N doesn't tell you is that a manufacturer is within its rights to specify that the warranty will not cover use of parts that are not equivalent in design or quality to its own parts. If you decide to use other parts, use caution unless you're expert at determining the quality of such parts.
Finally, your warranty may well exclude consequential damages which, as all K&N complainants learned, can result in repair costs that far exceed the cost of the part that caused the damage.
how is THAT possible?
Good post^^^^
Quote:
He probably drenched his filter with oil...and yes it sucked all that oil into the intake and the injectors...clogging it all up. I have seen KN's literally dripping oil....not really KN's fault but then again they are asking Joe Q Public to do something and that is a guarantee it will be FUBAR'd. So many people think well a little oil is good....heck a boatload will even be better
how is THAT possible?
Couple questions here.
1. How did the Tech determine that the K&N was at fault for the O2 sensor issue? O2 sensors do go bad and there are defective sensors.
2. Was there a follow up confirmation that the issue went away after the K&N was replaced with an OEM filter?
I smell something here and it doesn't smell too good. I would think that Nissan had a potential ECM issue with something as simple as an air filter tripping trouble codes.
1. How did the Tech determine that the K&N was at fault for the O2 sensor issue? O2 sensors do go bad and there are defective sensors.
2. Was there a follow up confirmation that the issue went away after the K&N was replaced with an OEM filter?
I smell something here and it doesn't smell too good. I would think that Nissan had a potential ECM issue with something as simple as an air filter tripping trouble codes.
1. The oil leaves a very distinctive residue all over IAT sensors/MAF sensors etc.
2. I'm going to assume if the problem did not return then it is easy to conclude the problem was resolved by replacing the KN. But I also have a problem with blaming it all on KN as we do not know how much oil the car owner used. Did he follow instructions? Who knows....so I agree I'm not gonna bash KN over somebody not following the oiling instructions.
I'm sure it was throwing SES lights all over everywhere. But that is just sensors seeing themselves outside of programmed parameters. Not sure of your point though.
I'm just trying to understand how the Tech's blamed a K&N filter for an O2 sensor going bad. I understand that suction will pull a little oil off the filter and into the intake tube (I have a K&N SR on my Matrix and had a drop in K&N before that) and onto the MAF, etc. We all know that the MAF and IAT (along with dozens of other systems) each have their own trouble codes. This article specifically stated that it was an O2 sensor which tripped the CEL code. I lost the heater circuit on one O2 sensor at 34k. The second O2 sensor heater curcuit went at 44k (2003 Matrix). Sensors go bad. How many miles on his 2002 and when did he install the K&N?
Have other Nissan's had the same trouble after installing a K&N? If so, then I think maybe it's an issue with their ECM not being able to properly compensate for the increased air flow (dumping excessive amounts of fuel isn't necessarily the answer). I'm sure hundreds of thousands of cars run K&N filters everyday without said issue. If those other Nissans didn't have issues, maybe his vehicle had another issue, not related to the K&N.
I pulled the K&N out of my truck due to some of the things I have read here but (and we agree) it is really unfair to post a damaging article about an isolated incident without any additional information.
I guess the long and short is that, IMHO, this is one of those things, which when taken out of context, only shows one side of the equation. The military service record was thrown in there to help us with his credibility and to further the negative point.
Have other Nissan's had the same trouble after installing a K&N? If so, then I think maybe it's an issue with their ECM not being able to properly compensate for the increased air flow (dumping excessive amounts of fuel isn't necessarily the answer). I'm sure hundreds of thousands of cars run K&N filters everyday without said issue. If those other Nissans didn't have issues, maybe his vehicle had another issue, not related to the K&N.
I pulled the K&N out of my truck due to some of the things I have read here but (and we agree) it is really unfair to post a damaging article about an isolated incident without any additional information.
I guess the long and short is that, IMHO, this is one of those things, which when taken out of context, only shows one side of the equation. The military service record was thrown in there to help us with his credibility and to further the negative point.
Yes I wasnt very clear was I
1. Almost without exception issues with the K&N is caused by improper oiling and or installation.
2. Dealers will blame almost anything on the K&N then it gets posted all over the internet as "gospel" that the K&N caused the issue because the dealer said so.
3. These new AEM/Amsoil dry flow filters flow and filter just as good if not better than the wet K&N solutions.
Just my observations/experiance and of course my humble opinion.
Agreed!
The AEM/Amsoil Dry flow filters are on my list.
The AEM/Amsoil Dry flow filters are on my list.
i belive and learned you all are wrong by bashing k&n, afe and most oiled cotton filters..the air intake system is a very harsh atmosphere remember the pcv hose up in there and air breaths back and forth so there are standing air contaminants that get on the maf sensors ITS NOT FROM THE K&N!! air moves back and forth and needs to breathe and exit which oiled filters provide..unless you are wot the throttle body is hardly open therefore standing pockets of oil vapers from the pvc system as far as the environment cotton is grown these filters are reuseable..paper is not they are deposeable and paper comes from trees...k&n and all other filters must pass ios standards which envolves particle sizes of 5u-150u..k&n passes even more strigent tests....all these wives tails about k&n oiling the maf is bogus..one day we will see all air filters will be of this type for our vehicles....i too used to be a believer of k&n messing up maf sensors
iso standards
I'm still debating on keeping the CAI kit and replacing the K&N filter with the Amsoil.
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