Can Any Dino Oil Go 7,5k Miles OCI?
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I'm planning on running Delvac 1300 for that long and then sending it in for a UOA w/ TBN reading. after almost 6k miles it still looks near new.
The '01 Jag S-Type I recently bough has a recommended OCI of 10K miles. The recommended oil is 5W30 and the sump capacity is 7 quarts.
This suprised me! I was happy to learn that the previous owner had the dealer change the oil every 10K and he had an independent shop (it was cheaper) change it in between at the 5K mark. Both the dealer and the independent shop used 5W30 dino (brand unknown) and Jaguar oil filters
10K on dino -- even with a 7 quart sump -- sort of freaks me out!
This suprised me! I was happy to learn that the previous owner had the dealer change the oil every 10K and he had an independent shop (it was cheaper) change it in between at the 5K mark. Both the dealer and the independent shop used 5W30 dino (brand unknown) and Jaguar oil filters
10K on dino -- even with a 7 quart sump -- sort of freaks me out!
Why?
Even my '88 Jeep Cherokee with the 4.0l recommended a 7500 mile OCI on SF rated dino oils.
In all honesty, I'm betting most dino oils will go much further than what people on this board would consider acceptable with no problems. Of course, most folks here are pretty hard to please!
In all honesty, I'm betting most dino oils will go much further than what people on this board would consider acceptable with no problems. Of course, most folks here are pretty hard to please!
Yes, Their are oil and engine combinations that can do this with out any ill effects. THe question should be: Can my engine and oil combination last 7500 miles? I alsop think you have to define what last means? WHat is you cut off point fot wear metals, oxidation, nitration TBN, solids ext........
Bamaro, No offense but that type of logic is seriously flawed. If why took that way of thinking and applied it elsware we can get all kinds of equally false assumptons. I guess smokeing can not be harmfull if the Tabco companys say it is harmless. I smokeing nicotine is not addictive or our government would not allow it to be sold. The Tabco companys say that smokleing is non-addicitve, does not cancer or emphasems(sp) so it must be try.
How toxic can mercury be after all we played with it at school in science class. We even played with it at home.Now if a thermoter breaks they send six guys out with space suites on the clean up the area.
P.S. I bet most of you guys do not reliase that their is no silver in those silver fillings in your mouth. It is mostly tin,mercury and in some cses some lead! SUre is nice to have heavy metals in our mouths. Most Communist countrys banned the use of so called silver amulgums long before the communism failed. They found that it was a huge cause of riseing health care cost and cancers in their population. To this day the United States Dental Association claims that it poses no health concerns!
So I do not think that the manufacture or the authoritys in power are always the best source of information.
[ June 18, 2004, 07:37 PM: Message edited by: JohnBrowning ]
Bamaro, No offense but that type of logic is seriously flawed. If why took that way of thinking and applied it elsware we can get all kinds of equally false assumptons. I guess smokeing can not be harmfull if the Tabco companys say it is harmless. I smokeing nicotine is not addictive or our government would not allow it to be sold. The Tabco companys say that smokleing is non-addicitve, does not cancer or emphasems(sp) so it must be try.
How toxic can mercury be after all we played with it at school in science class. We even played with it at home.Now if a thermoter breaks they send six guys out with space suites on the clean up the area.
P.S. I bet most of you guys do not reliase that their is no silver in those silver fillings in your mouth. It is mostly tin,mercury and in some cses some lead! SUre is nice to have heavy metals in our mouths. Most Communist countrys banned the use of so called silver amulgums long before the communism failed. They found that it was a huge cause of riseing health care cost and cancers in their population. To this day the United States Dental Association claims that it poses no health concerns!
So I do not think that the manufacture or the authoritys in power are always the best source of information.
[ June 18, 2004, 07:37 PM: Message edited by: JohnBrowning ]
I'm with ssmokin. I don't think it makes sense to push an interval past 5,000 with a run-of-the-mill type of oil in an economy car.
In a luxury car, it's just stupidity.
--- Bror Jace
In a luxury car, it's just stupidity.
--- Bror Jace
I am an electronics engineer - I am no oil expert! However, I am interested in car maintenance, and so people sometimes think I have "qualifications" and ask me questions like this. They typically expect some detailed answer that justifies long OCI, but I always tell them to look at the oil themselves, comparing new oil to the oil on the dipstick. Granted, not very scientific (!), but when you show them their own dipstick that looks like THICK RIVER MUD and then pull the oil filler cap and show them that their whole engine is coated with that stuff, then they begin to get the idea that a little better maintenance will go a long way toward extended service life of the car.
Given the generic "dirt" in the oil, and the fact that Dino oil evaporates up to 15% (this is within spec), then I find that most people's oil is both dirty and low, adding to oil stress. I think that this can lead to rapid deterioration of the oil in a very short time, especially if other factors like extended city driving in hot weather or a plugged-up PCV valve is added to the environment.
I vote for common sense. Look at the oil, check the level, check the OCI mileage, remember the environment (hot?, cold?, dusty?), and remember how much it costs to replace a vehicle. Given these factors, I think that the average car owner will make reasonable decisions on what OCI suits him best.
In my opinion, I think 5K miles is all that any Dino oil could ever withstand. Of course, I am an around-the-town driver, with a lot of stop-and-go driving.
I have nothing to say to the guys that throw chicken bones over their shoulder as they drive along. They are beyond hope, and I do not ride with them. I figure that if they do that, then they have no clue or care about tire and brake maintenance, and they probably are not watching the road anyway!
Best wishes as you motor along!
SWS
Given the generic "dirt" in the oil, and the fact that Dino oil evaporates up to 15% (this is within spec), then I find that most people's oil is both dirty and low, adding to oil stress. I think that this can lead to rapid deterioration of the oil in a very short time, especially if other factors like extended city driving in hot weather or a plugged-up PCV valve is added to the environment.
I vote for common sense. Look at the oil, check the level, check the OCI mileage, remember the environment (hot?, cold?, dusty?), and remember how much it costs to replace a vehicle. Given these factors, I think that the average car owner will make reasonable decisions on what OCI suits him best.
In my opinion, I think 5K miles is all that any Dino oil could ever withstand. Of course, I am an around-the-town driver, with a lot of stop-and-go driving.
I have nothing to say to the guys that throw chicken bones over their shoulder as they drive along. They are beyond hope, and I do not ride with them. I figure that if they do that, then they have no clue or care about tire and brake maintenance, and they probably are not watching the road anyway!
Best wishes as you motor along!
SWS
Just follow what the book says. If your book says you can go 7500 miles, then I wouldn't worry about it.
Most books have a severe duty schedule, and most owners are severe duty drivers. If you take your car to the grocery store and its around the corner, that is severe duty. Stop and go driving of any kind is severe duty.
As for the guy with the Jag, I would run Mobil1 or another good quality synthetic, and run it for 10k and not worry about it at all. 7 quarts is a quart more than my v8 ford truck takes.
As for running 7500 miles on a dino, in most cases I would not do it. There are very few dinos that I would run for that long. If you want to run 7500 miles on a dino then get a diesel dino and try that.
Most books have a severe duty schedule, and most owners are severe duty drivers. If you take your car to the grocery store and its around the corner, that is severe duty. Stop and go driving of any kind is severe duty.
As for the guy with the Jag, I would run Mobil1 or another good quality synthetic, and run it for 10k and not worry about it at all. 7 quarts is a quart more than my v8 ford truck takes.
As for running 7500 miles on a dino, in most cases I would not do it. There are very few dinos that I would run for that long. If you want to run 7500 miles on a dino then get a diesel dino and try that.
So where's the Lube Control folks on this? Aren't they advertising 10,000 mile OCI with dino? Anyone actually do that and can tell us?
(I use FP, haven't the guts to use LC & go 10K).
(I use FP, haven't the guts to use LC & go 10K).
1986 SAAB 900 Turbo(oil cooled, not water) Convert; 251K miles as of yesterday, 7500 OCI with Valvoline 10w30. I have never had a turbo or engine problem ever. I did a compression check when I changed plugs a couple of month ago and everything is well within spec and pretty close to the same psi across all four cylinders. I just got back from the F1 race Indianapolis with it and blasted down there in 2.5 hours going 85-100 mph the whole way. The way I see it is that oil is designed to keep engine running for as log as possible and I have a quarter-million miles on mine... Valvoline dino is doing just fine.
Fords latest definition of Severe Duty Is -
Towing
Heavy Commercial Use
Dusty Conditons
Off-Road Use
Doesnt mention frequent short trips or stop and go driving at all.
Toyotas is about the same but adds sub-zero temps.
7500 OCI on Dino has as much to do with the engine as the oil. I believe a good Dino PCMO like Chevron/Texaco or Pennzoil could go 7500 ml OCI in a Buick 3800 or 2.3L Saab with very little problem. In a Toyota "Sludge Monster" not on your life.
Gene
Gene
"I believe a good Dino PCMO like Chevron/Texaco or Pennzoil could go 7500 ml OCI in a Buick 3800 or 2.3L Saab with very little problem."
Oh my God! Someone who doesn't automatically parrot the "Dino can't last more than 5,000 miles" line? How can it be? This is heresy!!!
Amazing but true, here's a Chevy Lumina that went 7,200 mi on Rotella dino with iron, copper, and lead wear of 18, 9, and 5 ppm, respectively. Somehow, against all BITOG logic, the engine just refused to grenade! Report: "Wear matals stayed reasonable so we don't think the oil use interval was too long."
http://theoildrop.server101.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=3;t=000766
A Toyota Tacoma at 7,300 mi on Castrol GTX dino with 4 Fe, 2 Cu, and 4 Pb ppm, respectively. Report: "At present, your engine appears to be doing very well running these miles."
http://theoildrop.server101.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=3;t=001528
A Honda Accord at 6,900 on Castrol GTX dino with 6 Fe, 2 Cu, and 5 Pb, respectively. Report: "Wear read normally..."
http://theoildrop.server101.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=3;t=001594
A Buick Century at 6,700 mi on PetroCanada dino with 15 Fe, 15 Cu, and 12 Pb, respectively. "All component wear rates are normal...There is no indication of any contamination in the component."
http://theoildrop.server101.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=3;t=001412
I won't comment on insolubles/sludge/varnish/TBN issues, as I didn't investigate that far. I only glanced at the wear numbers (all of 'em great, and all under 20 ppm), but will say that debate over the I/S/V/TBN issues mentioned is fully legitimate, as wear numbers are only one part of the big picture.
That said..."7,500 miles on dino? The sky will fall...Civilization will end!!!" NOPE. Ain't gonna happen accordingly to the few high-mileage drain UOAs I came across (thanks to T-Stick for two of the UOAs). Some engines would suffer from 7,500 mi changes, no doubt about it. And I prefer to change at about 5-5,500 mi simply because I feel more comfortable with it and I get my dino for all of about 50 cents/qt after promotions. But blanket statements such as "Dino won't last past 5,000 mi" are just lame wive's tales that repeatedly get parroted without real evidence to back 'em up. Exactly how is 4-18 ppm iron wear over ~7,000 miles a problem?
[ June 22, 2004, 08:14 PM: Message edited by: TC ]
Oh my God! Someone who doesn't automatically parrot the "Dino can't last more than 5,000 miles" line? How can it be? This is heresy!!!
Amazing but true, here's a Chevy Lumina that went 7,200 mi on Rotella dino with iron, copper, and lead wear of 18, 9, and 5 ppm, respectively. Somehow, against all BITOG logic, the engine just refused to grenade! Report: "Wear matals stayed reasonable so we don't think the oil use interval was too long."
http://theoildrop.server101.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=3;t=000766
A Toyota Tacoma at 7,300 mi on Castrol GTX dino with 4 Fe, 2 Cu, and 4 Pb ppm, respectively. Report: "At present, your engine appears to be doing very well running these miles."
http://theoildrop.server101.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=3;t=001528
A Honda Accord at 6,900 on Castrol GTX dino with 6 Fe, 2 Cu, and 5 Pb, respectively. Report: "Wear read normally..."
http://theoildrop.server101.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=3;t=001594
A Buick Century at 6,700 mi on PetroCanada dino with 15 Fe, 15 Cu, and 12 Pb, respectively. "All component wear rates are normal...There is no indication of any contamination in the component."
http://theoildrop.server101.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=3;t=001412
I won't comment on insolubles/sludge/varnish/TBN issues, as I didn't investigate that far. I only glanced at the wear numbers (all of 'em great, and all under 20 ppm), but will say that debate over the I/S/V/TBN issues mentioned is fully legitimate, as wear numbers are only one part of the big picture.
That said..."7,500 miles on dino? The sky will fall...Civilization will end!!!" NOPE. Ain't gonna happen accordingly to the few high-mileage drain UOAs I came across (thanks to T-Stick for two of the UOAs). Some engines would suffer from 7,500 mi changes, no doubt about it. And I prefer to change at about 5-5,500 mi simply because I feel more comfortable with it and I get my dino for all of about 50 cents/qt after promotions. But blanket statements such as "Dino won't last past 5,000 mi" are just lame wive's tales that repeatedly get parroted without real evidence to back 'em up. Exactly how is 4-18 ppm iron wear over ~7,000 miles a problem?
[ June 22, 2004, 08:14 PM: Message edited by: TC ]
I would gladly go 7500 miles with a dino oil AND LC. Without LC, 4-5K, that's it. When the TBN drops below 2.0, it's not worth running the oil any longer. Try 10-7500 intervals and let's see if there's any sludge build-up in the engine in question!
The engine and driving conditions obviously have a great deal to do with oil life. Some engine designs are clearly much harder on oil than are others. Driving conditions are also a huge factor. Oil quality is a big factor.
There is not a simple time/mileage answer to the OCI requirement question and there are many examples of dino oils protecting just fine to 7,500 mile intervals.
John
There is not a simple time/mileage answer to the OCI requirement question and there are many examples of dino oils protecting just fine to 7,500 mile intervals.
John
We have a 9.5 year old Buick that has had an average of 10,000 mi year with 6 month changes on Dino since day one. Mileage ranged from 3000-7500 ml. Since mileage tends to vary by amount of highway usage I have always felt that time works just as well as mileage for judging change intervals once an average is set. Never had a problem. No obvious sludge looking through the valvecover and oil always still looks good when drained (Although I realize this doesnt mean anything). Car was run on Pennzoil until 85,000 mi when it was switched to Chevron/Havoline (Appears to be the same oil) depending on what is on sale that week. I am planning on doing a UOA on it with the next change.
Gene
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