California Solar gets a haircut - NEM 3.0

At $9 a month plus solar costs of the $150 a month I was given I would be losing money over the span of a year. I'm only interested in saving $$. Nothing else
I have no idea if you were doing a purchase or a lease, or what your deal was. I paid up front for a purchase; I will hit break even soon then it's all gravy. Heck, last month I had a $13 credit.
 
I am not subsidized. The house down the street just went up for sale at $2.75M. If and when it sells, is the new owner subsidizing me as well?
I bash PG&E for thier mismanagement of their own equipment and their company as a whole.
Yeah. You are. You have told us how you pay $9/month, because under your arrangement, PG&E is required to buy your electricity at a certain rate, whether they need it or not at the time your panels generate it, right?

Home values are irrelevant to your electric deal.

A deal that is grandfathered in, that no one else can get.

It’s like listening to the Prop 13 people paying next to zero in property taxes saying that they’re not subsidized by their neighbors who are paying ten times as much in property tax.

Yeah, right…

This is like the government buying wheat to keep the price at a certain level, and the farmers claiming they’re not subsidized.
 
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I am not subsidized. The house down the street just went up for sale at $2.75M. If and when it sells, is the new owner subsidizing me as well?
I bash PG&E for thier mismanagement of their own equipment and their company as a whole.
You either don’t understand or choose not to understand. Your above analogy proves it.

How would you feel about your “investment” if there was no Bill protecting your generation rates and the new price of 0.05-0.08 per kilowatt kicked in for everyone else including you?

Your investment is absolutely subsidized and PROTECTED. That price protection alone is a huge subsidy. What normal investments have this?

Not trying to blame you for going solar or claiming some sort of moral high ground on my part. You did good on that deal, but your understanding of how it all works is very, very wrong.
 
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Don’t know if that will lower anything, most likely not. The whole thing was never about lower energy costs to begin with, so why would they do it now?

Nobody said you have a free ride, but the rates at which you’re being paid for your generation are being subsidized in form of higher rates for everyone else. There doesn’t need to be a line on your bill marked as a subsidy for one to exist.


They pay me .3 for what they sell for .4 and up - and charge me for the line that exists to do it. They win both ways.

Going forward they pay .08 for what they charge .4 and up for.

Who is subsidizing who here?
 
You either don’t understand or choose not to understand. Your above analogy proves it.

How would you feel about your “investment” if there was no Bill protecting your generation rates and the new price of 0.05-0.08 per kilowatt kicked in for everyone else including you?

Your investment is absolutely subsidized and PROTECTED. That price protection alone is a huge subsidy. What normal investments have this?

Not trying to blame you for going solar or claiming some sort of moral high ground on my part. You did good on that deal, but your understanding of how it all works is very, very wrong.
No one is protecting me. I pay full rate for any electricity above my own generation. How hard is that to understand?
 
It’s like listening to the Prop 13 people paying next to zero in property taxes saying that they’re not subsidized by their neighbors who are paying ten times as much in property tax.
Everyone should pay a tax of some sort to pay for the services their community provides. However, property taxes are the wrong way to do it. Use the local school system as an example. Why should a person who lives in a more expensive home pay more for the SAME school services that a person living in a less expensive home receives?

I find it absolutely IMMORAL that property taxes can be increased because the home you live and and have no intention of selling has become more valuable since you purchased it. Property taxes are the equivalent of taxing the paper profits of your stock portfolio even though you haven't sold the stock. But that day will come soon enough. Guaranteed.

Scott
 
I have no idea if you were doing a purchase or a lease, or what your deal was. I paid up front for a purchase; I will hit break even soon then it's all gravy. Heck, last month I had a $13 credit.
You paid up front. Thats money out of pocket I pay monthly to SCE. I'm looking at actual savings as I don't plan to live in CA any longer than I need to..
 
They pay me .3 for what they sell for .4 and up - and charge me for the line that exist to do it. They win both ways.

Going forward they pay .08 for what they charge .4 and up for.

Who is subsidizing who here?

But they will not pay 0.08 for everyone’s generation, only new contracts going forward from 2023. So you are being subsidized because PG&E is forced to pay you that amount, regardless of demand or market costs. That has to come from somewhere don’t you think? That “somewhere” is increased consumption rates.
 
But they will not pay 0.08 for everyone’s generation, only new contracts going forward from 2023. So you are being subsidized because PG&E is forced to pay you that amount, regardless of demand or market costs.

I am FORCED to buy from them for more regardless of demand or market cost as well as give them my output for a price they set - they do not allow me to disconnect.

If you want to stop the subsidy - allow me to disconnect.
 
Yeah. You are. You have told us how you pay $9/month, because under your arrangement, PG&E is required to buy your electricity at a certain rate, whether they need it or not at the time your panels generate it, right?

Home values are irrelevant to your electric deal.

A deal that is grandfathered in, that no one else can get.

It’s like listening to the Prop 13 people paying next to zero in property taxes saying that they’re not subsidized by their neighbors who are paying ten times as much in property tax.

Yeah, right…

This is like the government buying wheat to keep the price at a certain level, and the farmers claiming they’re not subsidized.
You say home values are irrelevant to my electric bill. Then you compare the government with a for profit company, PG&E.
PG&E sells the electricity my panels generate at a profit. And I am the one being subsidized because I purchased a solar project for the going price? They made the terms of the deal, not me.
Deals come and go, just like my house purchase, a car purchase, you name it. No one says any given deal goes on forever.
Should I be mad becasue Tesla Model 3 cars sell for less than I paid?

Sorry Astro, saying I am being subsidized is a huge leap.
 
The few new home owners with solar I have spoken with flat out love their solar. There are some newer developments in cheaper areas, like just west of Sac. Lotta retirees. Livin' large and blowing that AC!
I'm sure they do. It's a good deal when you can amortize the acquisition cost over 30 yr period.
 
Everyone should pay a tax of some sort to pay for the services their community provides. However, property taxes are the wrong way to do it. Use the local school system as an example. Why should a person who lives in a more expensive home pay more for the SAME school services that a person living in a less expensive home receives?

I find it absolutely IMMORAL that property taxes can be increased because the home you live and and have no intention of selling has become more valuable since you purchased it. Property taxes are the equivalent of taxing the paper profits of your stock portfolio even though you haven't sold the stock. But that day will come soon enough. Guaranteed.

Scott
You are arguing tax policy. Fairness. This is a separate discussion.

When the government steps in and changes the regulatory environment, so that the sale of your goods (soybeans, cattle, or home generated electricity) happens above market rate, that is a subsidy.

When the government steps in and changes the regulatory environment so that you get the same service as others at a discounted rate (Prop 13), that is a subsidy.

The California Public Utilities Commission, an arm of the government, set the terms of Jeff’s deal. Just as they set the terms of NEM 2 and 3. Government body. Government action. Setting the price above, or below, the market. PG&E was compelled to offer the deal by the Government of California.

Jeff’s electricity is subsidized.

Whether or not that is fair. How municipalities, or states, pay for public services. These are separate issues.
 
I am FORCED to buy from them for more regardless of demand or market cost as well as give them my output for a price they set - they do not allow me to disconnect.

If you want to stop the subsidy - allow me to disconnect.
That’s a result of CAs government meddling in these matters going back to early 2000s. You see the results now. If solar was working as promised and did reduce energy costs, there would not be a need to force anyone into anything, there would be no need for a government bill to guarantee buy back rates etc.

You guys are taking it personally and that’s the problem. The dirty truth is that solar and wind are a direct cause of increased energy costs. I understand it’s hard to acknowledge this for those that bought into the program, because that would also indirectly mean they are contributing to the problem.
The understand the pushback, but it doesn’t change the facts.
 
That’s a result of CAs government meddling in these matters going back to early 2000s. You see the results now. If solar was working as promised and did reduce energy costs, there would not be a need to force anyone into anything, there would be no need for a government bill to guarantee buy back rates etc.

You guys are taking it personally and that’s the problem. The dirty truth is that solar and wind are a direct cause of increased energy costs. I understand it’s hard to acknowledge this for those that bought into the program, because that would also indirectly mean they are contributing to the problem.
The understand the pushback, but it doesn’t change the facts.
Reducing energy costs was never the purpose behind solar or any other renewable. The NEM served as an inducement.
 
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I'm sure they do. It's a good deal when you can amortize the acquisition cost over 30 yr period.

Only if the installation was worthy to begin with. Not every site makes sense, but every house going forward will have them regardless.
That’s a result of CAs government meddling in these matters going back to early 2000s. You see the results now. If solar was working as promised and did reduce energy costs, there would not be a need to force anyone into anything, there would be no need for a government bill to guarantee buy back rates etc.

You guys are taking it personally and that’s the problem. The dirty truth is that solar and wind are a direct cause of increased energy costs. I understand it’s hard to acknowledge this for those that bought into the program, because that would also indirectly mean they are contributing to the problem.
The understand the pushback, but it doesn’t change the facts.

Let us chose to disconnect and end the discussion once and for all.

Then the people that use and need it can pay for 100 GW+ of new and current generation and send everyone that need to buy it the bill.

Forcing me to sell my production at a price I dont get to set or negotiate while simultaneously telling me they dont need or want it is hilarious.
 
If I've got to buy a storage system I don't need the grid anymore.
Sure you do, that powerwall has 7.5kWh of capacity (10 if you get the shorter warranty). Not enough to charge your EV at night or even enough to run to cook dinner and run a load of laundry.
 
Sure you do, that powerwall has 7.5kWh of capacity (10 if you get the shorter warranty). Not enough to charge your EV at night or even enough to run to cook dinner and run a load of laundry.


Really easy to size to 15 or 20 and Im set. I wouldnt buy a power wall - Id use an enphase setup and they come in 10KW packs.

Not gonna charge my EV at night on batt power - I'll charge it during the day as soon as Im net positive which happens right around noon.

Stove, cooktop, water heat and furnace are gas.
 
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