Not saying what you read is or isn't factual. I will say this-just like on this forum when it comes to EVs there is a lot of "agenda pushing" News (fake or otherwise) and anti EV posts/threads on here.
California Moves To Ban Natural Gas Furnaces / Heaters
- Thread starter Wrenchturner44
- Start date
- Status
Not saying what you read is or isn't factual. I will say this-just like on this forum when it comes to EVs there is a lot of "agenda pushing" News (fake or otherwise) and anti EV posts/threads on here.
- Joined
- Nov 29, 2021
- Messages
- 5,383
Considering that EVs themselves are "agenda pushing", seems pretty relevant how much power they'd consume on already taxed grids.
Add on electric heat and pretend that nature isn't going to keep making the methane anyway... I mean that which is underground rather than man-made, since we aren't hooking up a system of pipes to catch cow farts, so that isn't part of this equation.
Propflux01
$100 Site Donor 2025
- Joined
- Dec 28, 2011
- Messages
- 5,443
Where did you get that from? All the new construction around here is NG unless you are in to woods and there are no service lines. And those are oil or LP or like me, a mix of both. When my 19 year old furnace craps out I'm moving to LP. Along with pellet stove, LP fireplace insert, and LP heat for the 3rd floor, all good.
I figured the point at which it would be cheaper to use electricity at 12 cents/kwh to heat (straight resistance heating, not a heatpump) and it's about when LP exceeds something like $3.80 a gallon. I don't remember the exact number since I figured it out a while ago.
- Joined
- Dec 28, 2011
- Messages
- 5,443
Aren't you forgetting to factor in the efficiency rating? I just filled my LP tanks at $2.79/gal. We use a cooktop, dryer, and a fireplace insert. All 3 are highly efficient. The insert is insane how little it used last winter (installed Jan 2022) and the heat output is
. Along with a pellet stove this set up really saved me a lot of $$ last winter.Aren't you forgetting to factor in the efficiency rating? I just filled my LP tanks at $2.79/gal. We use a cooktop, dryer, and a fireplace insert. All 3 are highly efficient. The insert is insane how little it used last winter (installed Jan 2022) and the heat output is
I took efficiency into account, figuring a 90% AFUE furnace. And I compared it with the most inefficient way to heat with electricity, resistance heating.
In the real world, you might be comparing an 80% AFUE furnace (still lots of them around, and I think they're still being made) with a heat pump, that typically runs at greater than 200% efficiency, making the breakeven point even lower.
Fireplace inserts are not known to be very efficient. I have an actual purpose-built propane fireplace (I do NOT use it for heating; I would use it in an emergency if the power is out for a long time) and it's probably not even 60% AFUE.
Cooking and drying aren't usually big energy users, so it likely doesn't really matter what you power them with. Heating is the big one.
As I understand ,NY was/is considering banning NG in new buildings. It has not passed but is/was under consideration. I suspect pushing such a thing will resume after election time.
https://www.eenews.net/articles/n-y-governor-backs-nations-first-statewide-gas-ban/
'erg' energy recovery vent w/AFUE mathmatical match.
In more humid climate its the 'hrv'.
Ele is the most efficient heat as it's got a 1:1 relation (convenction, radiation, conduction).
Electric heat’s issue is the line losses between the plant-transformers, wire, thermal losses at the plant, etc. Heat pump is better at reasonable winter temps since heat is being moved from outside to indoors, in addition to heat generated by the compressor. Until it gets really cold and/or it defrosts…
The newer heatpumps are demand-defrost and only go into defrost if it's actually needed. The older heatpumps just used a timer. The demand-defrost saves quite a bit of energy.
✓
8^ )
8^ )
Where do you get $2.79 LP. We are $1.00 more.Aren't you forgetting to factor in the efficiency rating? I just filled my LP tanks at $2.79/gal. We use a cooktop, dryer, and a fireplace insert. All 3 are highly efficient. The insert is insane how little it used last winter (installed Jan 2022) and the heat output is
You read my mind. LONG gone to East Texas. Wondering why I waited until 43 to do it.
Over at Mammoth Lakes, plenty of homes have wood burning stoves and wood pellet stoves.
Not everyone in CA lives by the beach, where it would be rare to need heat in the winter.
There are plenty of California where there are mountains and see freezing temperatures. Electric baseboard heaters are expensive to operate, but can be supplemented with wood burning stoves or pellet stoves.
This picture was taken in Southern California, about 2 hours from the beach.
Driving in snow at big bear by thisistan, on FlickrWood burning and natural gas bans are local issues in California. In my county both are still legal for new construction but one “us too!” city has banned them.
I too have done calculations on my three sources of heat, which include a 10 year old heat pump which operates to 27 F at which point it starts to do defrost cycles, LP which is burned in an on-demand boiler and provides in-floor hydronic heat in the basement and blown heat through a heat exchanger in the furnace, and a wood stove in the basement burning fir, for days I am home. Using last year’s numbers, the heat pump is cheapest, followed by propane, but if I’m home and the temp is below 27 F, I’ll make a wood fire. There is a real cost for wood, as I sometimes bring down a dead tree, but mostly pay the equivalent of $210 USD for a cord of split fir delivered but not stacked. I also have a propane fireplace but use it for ambience since my condensing boiler does a better job of distributing heat. Having said that, the propane fireplace and wood stove both work during our power outages that happen in this rural area.
My American Standard heat pump has been trouble free for 10 years except for a condenser I had to replace. My 10 year old Viesmann boiler however needed a new fire tube, new gas valve, new computer controlled fan, new ignition cord and several ignitors and new face plate for the chamber that was warped. Total was about $2500. The Regency fireplace still has the original fireplace bricks and burns hot and clean, exhausting through a double insulated stainless steel chimney vent. I find the gas fireplace thermocouple has to be cleaned once a year for the piezoelectric igniter to work.
Last edited:
- Status
