California Moves To Ban Natural Gas Furnaces / Heaters

[4WD]

90%+ AFUE furnaces draw their combustion air from outside, not inside the house. If you're still operating an 80% furnace you should think about upgrading.

Copy that. I don't detect anything (by nose or instruments) when our NG central heat is on. Our NG fireplace ? Different story ...

 

[wpod]

Massive amounts of wood get burned up every summer.

Most Californians can not put the two together cause their Tv didn't tell them.

 

[Quantico]

Anyone care to actually tackle why this is such a bad idea?

California is a big state, but in general, the climate doesn't require the heating needs of a gas-fueled furnace. That's hard for a midwestener or northeastener to understand, but population centers don't see -20F every winter. A heat pump is probably ideal and I'd be willing to bet most new homes have already gone that route.

Most major municipalities in California have already banned natural gas-fired appliances. A good portion of this already doesn't affect 80% of the population.

For a personal perspective, homes without a gas-fired furnace and appliances have much better indoor air quality. If I lived in a climate that supported it, I'd have gotten rid of my gas furnace long ago.

What about power outages? You use you furnace at completely different times and in a completely different manner than the *other* electricity hog: Air conditioning. A switch to electric heat (again, in the form of efficient heat pumps) will not have nearly the same electricity-usage impact as the already-existing maximum demand.

On the topic of power outages, it's not like they're exclusive to California. Ask Texas about how well their gas-fired state does in extreme weather. They seem to have trouble keeping the lights on and homes at a comfortable temperature with gas.

The gas used for combustion is never inside the home. So cant effect air quality.

 

[Quantico]

90%+ AFUE furnaces draw their combustion air from outside, not inside the house. If you're still operating an 80% furnace you should think about upgrading.

Even 80 percent has 100 percent of the combustion gas outside. So no air quality difference

 

[brianl703]

Even 80 percent has 100 percent of the combustion gas outside. So no air quality difference

The combustion air they take from inside the house is made up with outside air, which tends to be cold air and which really lowers the humidity in the house. I guess you could call that an air quality problem if it's too dry.

 

[CKN]

The combustion air they take from inside the house is made up with outside air, which tends to be cold air and which really lowers the humidity in the house. I guess you could call that an air quality problem if it's too dry.

Dry air is an issue when using your natural gas heater. You can install humidifiers in your system to combat this.

 

[Slow Car Sport Mode]

IMHO the best thing any Californian that still has a single brain cell left is to pack up and move. I was reading just yesterday CA is allowing human bodies to be used as fertilizer. These people have really lost the plot.

Soylent Green?

I moved....



Now, there are some cool people in Cali like @vavavroom @Pablo @Chris142 @Shel_B and others.. the Sons Of Anarchy crew in Charming. But I think @Trav is onto something.

 

[JustinH]

I had all electric apartment in San Antonio before we had the house built.

The cost to run electric heat was double what it costs to heat my new home with gas. And the new house is 2.5x the square footage of the apartment.

 

[PimTac]

Soylent Green?

I moved....



Now, there are some cool people in Cali like @vavavroom @Pablo @Chris142 @Shel_B and others.. the Sons Of Anarchy crew in Charming. But I think @Trav is onto something.

Washington state already has this. It seems weird.

So you decide to put Grandpa in the flower bed out front as a lasting remembrance. The next day you discover that dog or other wild animals have dug the bed up and scattered it all over the place.

Poor Grandpa.

 

[Ed in Tx]

On the topic of power outages, it's not like they're exclusive to California. Ask Texas about how well their gas-fired state does in extreme weather. They seem to have trouble keeping the lights on and homes at a comfortable temperature with gas.

Only power outage we had here in Texas was in Feb '21 when we got down to an unusually low -2°F for a few days, the bird killer wind turbines froze up and the solar panels weren't getting enough sunlight from clouds being in the way, common occurance in the winter, to generate any power, which we've become dependent on to supplement gas, coal and nuke. We've been colder like in 1983 when it wasn't even an issue, but then we weren't relying on "Mother Nature" for 20 to 30% of our power. This past summer we maintained 5 to 10% over demand during peak times. Never had a glitch in the power. Of course the media never tells that part of the story. Been here 71 years so I speak from experience.

 

[4WD]

Only power outage we had here in Texas was in Feb '21 when we got down to an unusually low -2°F for a few days, the bird killer wind turbines froze up and the solar panels weren't getting enough sunlight from clouds being in the way, common occurance in the winter, to generate any power, which we've become dependent on to supplement gas, coal and nuke. We've been colder like in 1983 when it wasn't even an issue, but then we weren't relying on "Mother Nature" for 20 to 30% of our power. This past summer we maintained 5 to 10% over demand during peak times. Never had a glitch in the power. Of course the media never tells that part of the story. Been here 71 years so I speak from experience.

NG went down too - but in some cases the "brown out board" Operators killed power to the natural gas process plants ...
We kept power through that one (I'm an hour from Houston) ...
5.5 hours is my longest outage since 1996 (bought my house) ...

 

[Ed in Tx]

NG went down too - but in some cases the "brown out board" Operators killed power to the natural gas process plants ...
We kept power through that one (I'm an hour from Houston) ...
5.5 hours is my longest outage since 1996 (bought my house) ...

Yes depending on electricity to route natural gas around the pipelines seems a little self defeating. That's what happens when you lose up to 30% of your power source from the wind turbines and solar panels in West Texas.

For several days Feb 16, 17, 18 2021 I had no power several times for at least 5 hours one was almost 9 hours. Had nat gas though! And hot water. I ran the air handler-gas furnace that's up in the attic from a Harbor Freight generator so at least my house and its plumbing didn't freeze up. It has a plug on it, not hard-wired, so I was able to run an extension cord up to it.

 

[CKN]

Yes depending on electricity to route natural gas around the pipelines seems a little self defeating. That's what happens when you lose up to 30% of your power source from the wind turbines and solar panels in West Texas.

For several days Feb 16, 17, 18 2021 I had no power several times for at least 5 hours one was almost 9 hours. Had gas though! I ran the air handler-gas furnace that's up in the attic from a Harbor Freight generator so at least my house and its plumbing didn't freeze up. It has a plug on it, not hard-wired, so I was able to run an extension cord up to it.

Yes-Texans were very proud of their "independence" from the nations power grid-until it didn't work.

 

[Ed in Tx]

Yes-Texans were very proud of their "independence" from the nations power grid-until it didn't work.

One time! There are plenty of other weather-related power outages in other parts of the country to spread around.

 

[OVERKILL]

Yes-Texans were very proud of their "independence" from the nations power grid-until it didn't work.

Being part of the grid doesn't guarantee you won't get taken out by an outage. The big blackout of 2003 impacted Ontario, and 8 US states and it took several days for some areas to get power back.

Cali's rolling blackouts are a "thing" despite the fact they have numerous large interconnects to other states.

Cali's wild fire issues aren't unlike the Texas unwillingness to winterize equipment issues. Both are preventable and have clearly identified causes and solutions.

 

[2strokeNorthstar]

Now I have a goal to be out of CA before 2030. Maybe a blessing in disguise.

 

[4WD]

Being part of the grid doesn't guarantee you won't get taken out by an outage. The big blackout of 2003 impacted Ontario, and 8 US states and it took several days for some areas to get power back.

Cali's rolling blackouts are a "thing" despite the fact they have numerous large interconnects to other states.

Cali's wild fire issues aren't unlike the Texas unwillingness to winterize equipment issues. Both are preventable and have clearly identified causes and solutions.

True. And the coldest part is the panhandle and it's on another grid. My area (gulf coast) is still far more likely to be taken out by a hurricane than a freeze - and BTW - Harris County (Houston) is the 3rd most populated in the USA - and heavily industrialized with the refineries and the Port of Houston. (big loads). Some of it will go down with the next hurricane - little doubt in my mind - trees, wind, driven rain, and lightning will take out power in old sections that have not buried service - that's not "grid" as with the clip below ... (I paid to bury my lines) ...
I'm just an hour from Houston - my longest outage is 5-1/2 hours since moving there in 1996.
Despite having many sources of power and heat/cooling myself - I do know a young couple (Houston) who bought an all electric as their first home. It was a miserable period and my son joined them to burn real and petro based logs in the fireplace.
After that I gave them an $800 gen with only 8 hours run time ...

How to know the difference between a local power outage and rolling blackouts

Power outages are a possibility during any severe weather event. But a local power outage is different from a larger power grid problem.

www.texastribune.org

 

[PimTac]

Yes-Texans were very proud of their "independence" from the nations power grid-until it didn't work.

Still not a guarantee of power. For those whose longest outage in the past 25 years was 5 hours or even 10 hours consider yourselves lucky. We’ve had power outages last for days and weeks.

Having rolling blackouts is a symptom of under supply.

 

[JohnnyG]

And then there's this:


Not to mention a recent article I read on Google news stating that charging electric cars at night is DESTABILISING the power grid!
They now wish everyone can charge the car at work or otherwise during the day. (Somebody needs to re-think the electric pricing structure)

https://studyfinds.org/electric-cars-charged-at-night-grid-unstable/


Anyway, those that think they can deal with all of these things by mandating compliance, has probably driven themselves nuts at this point.

 

[PimTac]

It doesn’t stop with just the banning of natural gas. Washington state changed the building code so that future residential and commercial buildings must use electric heat pumps for heating and cooling and for heating water. The additional costs will be substantial.