California Moves To Ban Natural Gas Furnaces / Heaters

[CleanSump]

California imports electricity, but only wants you to use electricity. OK, SOLAR will save us!
Uh oh, can't put solar out in fields because a rare bug lives there!
Well, as long as us elite can't see it, make electricty in another state.

 

[brianl703]

For a personal perspective, homes without a gas-fired furnace and appliances have much better indoor air quality. If I lived in a climate that supported it, I'd have gotten rid of my gas furnace long ago.

90%+ AFUE furnaces draw their combustion air from outside, not inside the house. If you're still operating an 80% furnace you should think about upgrading.

 

[JeffKeryk]

Personally I don't know anything about this, but I can tell you I am over-the-top happy with my solar project and $9 per month (or less) electric bill. I have an on demand gas water heater, which I like for cost but don't like because the 1st shower in the morning takes longer for hot water. Water is a scarce, valuable resource.

I would give up my gas heater in a heart beat. Not sure if I have enough solar generation for an electric heater? Maybe?
As mentioned before, CA is extending the use of the Diablo Canyon nuclear power plant in San Luis Obispo. This is a step in the right direction; I believe in a multi source solution for energy demand. There is no one-size-fits-all answer; where I live I don't need much heat, other areas can be far colder. Answers are rarely found at the extremes. Plus nature is constantly changing, so flexibility just might save your butt.

Where will all this end up? Interesting times ahead. Regardless, I flat-out love living here.

 

[BISCUT]

Personally I don't know anything about this, but I can tell you I am over-the-top happy with my solar project and $9 per month (or less) electric bill. I have an on demand gas water heater, which I like for cost but don't like because the 1st shower in the morning takes longer for hot water. Water is a scarce, valuable resource.

I would give up my gas heater in a heart beat. Not sure if I have enough solar generation for an electric heater? Maybe?
As mentioned before, CA is extending the use of the Diablo Canyon nuclear power plant in San Luis Obispo. This is a step in the right direction; I believe in a multi source solution for energy demand. There is no one-size-fits-all answer; where I live I don't need much heat, other areas can be far colder. Answers are rarely found at the extremes. Plus nature is constantly changing, so flexibility just might save your butt.

Where will all this end up? Interesting times ahead. Regardless, I flat-out love living here.

This answer expouses basic common sense many of us share and wish our elected officials would apply. Application of geo, wind, solar, and a renewed investment in nuclear generation along with the use of fossil fuels is the answer for now.

 

[OVERKILL]

Not sure. Maybe Jeff K. or other CA BITOG members can comment. MY question is doesn't CA currently use a lot of Nat Gas powered on demand turbine power stations? According to this map they have several.

Yes, it provides the vast majority of Cali's power when the sun goes down:

 

[OVERKILL]

Anyone care to actually tackle why this is such a bad idea?

California is a big state, but in general, the climate doesn't require the heating needs of a gas-fueled furnace. That's hard for a midwestener or northeastener to understand, but population centers don't see -20F every winter. A heat pump is probably ideal and I'd be willing to bet most new homes have already gone that route.

Sure, but there's a certain level of insanity in forcing people to use an electric furnace/heat pump run by a natural gas power plant that is 30-40% efficient before line losses, in place of a gas furnace that is 95% efficient.

 

[JeffKeryk]

This answer expouses basic common sense many of us share and wish our elected officials would apply. Application of geo, wind, solar, and a renewed investment in nuclear generation along with the use of fossil fuels is the answer for now.

Yes; this is what is going on in CA now. I am hopeful for future generations and their energy solutions. IMO, more and more generation is a lousy approach; why not insulate? Why not make use of all the available resources? Get a load of this wave energy generator.

 

[CKN]

The 20 fastest-cooling real estate markets in the US

The study, from real estate firm Redfin, ranked the nation's most populous hubs using metrics such as prices, price drops, and supply - and found the market is cooling fastest along the West Coast.

www.dailymail.co.uk

Anybody who lives in any DECENT AREA of Southern/Northern California is a millionaire as far as home values. They would have to cool off more than 40 to 50 per-cent to change that. And that's not happening. ESPECIALLY in San Diego and San Jose.

 

[walterjay]

Sure, but there's a certain level of insanity in forcing people to use an electric furnace/heat pump run by a natural gas power plant that is 30-40% efficient before line losses, in place of a gas furnace that is 95% efficient.

Absolutely correct. People don't understand the efficiency losses that occur in generation and along the way in the power grid before it ever gets to the customer. Direct use a a fuel is very efficient.

 

[atikovi]

Not sure why some people here are quick to condemn the use of natural. It's one of the cleanest fuels available, so clean that you can burn it in your kitchen without need to vent the fumes. Try that with coal or oil. And natural gas is abundant in the U.S. so we don't have to import it.

 

[CKN]

California and Hyundais are just too easy cannon fodder on here!

 

[BMWTurboDzl]

Can't burn wood in California either

Especially in LA. Creates a lot of ground level it pollution.

 

[Owen Lucas]

A lot of California's laws make sense, only if the alternatives worked. With enough cheap electricity (nuclear?) no one would need fossil fuels but this isn't going to be a reality for the next few decades.

 

[BMWTurboDzl]

The NatGas distribution system is notoriously leaky. Methane (NatGas) has a high global warming coefficient (over 20x greater than CO2)

This is just California trying to reduce their GHG emissions. Heat pumps work much better than NatGas furnaces and are more efficient by a wide margin.

 

[Owen Lucas]

The NatGas distribution system is notoriously leaky. Methane (NatGas) has a high global warming coefficient (over 20x greater than CO2)

This is just California trying to reduce their GHG emissions. Heat pumps work much better than NatGas furnaces and are more efficient by a wide margin.

https://pubs.acs.org/doi/10.1021/cen-09409-notw1

 

[Shel_B]

Burn wood, solves every possibility you bring up.

Some years back, wood-burning fireplaces were banned. I was disappointed, and then the holiday season came about. The air quality in the neighborhoods I frequented became quite pleasant, the smokey, holiday air was cleaned up substantially and allowed a much more pleasant outdoor experience. A Christmas Eve walk was no longer a coughing and eye-tearing event for some folks.

I was told that childhood asthma rates dropped ... don't know firsthand but heard it mentioned a couple of times on an evening news program.

That Cozy Fire Could Be Hazardous to Your Health

Fires are cozy, but they can cause lung problems if you have a history of lung disease. From using the right wood to newer inserts, get tips for minimizing your risk.

health.clevelandclinic.org

 

[Snagglefoot]

Not sure why some people here are quick to condemn the use of natural. It's one of the cleanest fuels available, so clean that you can burn it in your kitchen without need to vent the fumes. Try that with coal or oil. And natural gas is abundant in the U.S. so we don't have to import it.

Just a reflection of our great relationship between Canada and the US. The US imports over 7 BCF/day of natural gas, mostly from Canada.

 

[fozzdesy2001]

Just saw this article this morning. I am assuming that propane appliances will also succumb (gas grills, patio heaters etc)?

California Moves to Ban Natural Gas Furnaces and Heaters by 2030

(Bloomberg) -- California is committing to a plan that will make it the first US state to phase out gas-fueled furnaces and water heaters in homes, a move environmentalists are betting will provide a template for other states. Most Read from BloombergBank of England Says Paper Banknotes Only...

news.yahoo.com

I have a great idea just phase out and ban ALL people in California that will fix everything, maybe

 

[2strokeNorthstar]

Burn wood, solves every possibility you bring up.

That’s illegal too

 

[4WD]

Of course NY is quite cold and populated - but are also banning NG in new construction ...
Many, many, MW's of "green energy" needs a backup and that does not make it as cheap nor clean as claimed... (and it's got a larger left and right footprint on the soil and/or the water) ... Further, surface mineral extraction is not pretty - hope folks realize that and keep batteries allocated for mobile use ... (then, there is the after life for the batteries etc) ...