C3 502/505.01 oils

[Jimmy_Russells]

What's the story with these, and what is the difference with them and 504/507 certs? Most of them also carry 229.51 and LL04. For example Fuchs, Total, Castrol and some other brands all make C3 502/505.01 as well as 504/507 versions of the same product line. What's the diff between them?

Example:

Fuchs GT1 Pro Flex - LL04, dexos 2, 229.51/229.52, 502/505 00/505 01
Fuchs GT1 Pro C3 - LL04, 229.51, C30, 504/507

?

 

[zeng]

502/505.01 C3 for fixed drain intervals, PD system.

504/507 C3 for extended drain intervals, DPF.

 

[Bailes1992]

504/507 is designed for variable/intelligent servicing up to 18k or 2 years.

502/505 is designed for fixed servicing up to 10k or 1 year.

 

[BMWTurboDzl]

Also, 504/507 will always be 30 weight.

 

[weasley]

Originally Posted by Bailes1992
504/507 is designed for variable/intelligent servicing up to 18k or 2 years.

502/505 is designed for fixed servicing up to 10k or 1 year.


Strictly speaking it is 30k km for 504/507 and 15k km for 502/505 (after all, VW's mother tongue is metric). These roughly translate to 18k and 10k miles.

 

[Jimmy_Russells]

Yes, but what is the actual difference with the oil itself? Is there a specification difference, meaning are the saps levels different, the noack different, base oil composition is different...? I have to think they are extremely similar oils.

 

[UG_Passat]

Originally Posted by Jimmy_Russells
What's the story with these, and what is the difference with them and 504/507 certs? Most of them also carry 229.51 and LL04. For example Fuchs, Total, Castrol and some other brands all make C3 502/505.01 as well as 504/507 versions of the same product line. What's the diff between them?

Example:

Fuchs GT1 Pro Flex - LL04, dexos 2, 229.51/229.52, 502/505 00/505 01
Fuchs GT1 Pro C3 - LL04, 229.51, C30, 504/507

?


504/507 will use less calcium sulfonate to achieve a lower Sulfated Ash content, thus lower TBN.

 

[Jimmy_Russells]

Originally Posted by UG_Passat
Originally Posted by Jimmy_Russells
What's the story with these, and what is the difference with them and 504/507 certs? Most of them also carry 229.51 and LL04. For example Fuchs, Total, Castrol and some other brands all make C3 502/505.01 as well as 504/507 versions of the same product line. What's the diff between them?

Example:

Fuchs GT1 Pro Flex - LL04, dexos 2, 229.51/229.52, 502/505 00/505 01
Fuchs GT1 Pro C3 - LL04, 229.51, C30, 504/507

?


504/507 will use less calcium sulfonate to achieve a lower Sulfated Ash content, thus lower TBN.


Ok, that's what I'm asking.

So we can probably surmise since 504/507 is DPF friendly, it likely has lower saps, even though 505.01 still meets C3 spec for saps already.

 

[UG_Passat]

the 502/505 is thinner than 504/507

http://www.generaloils.net/PI_TITAN-GT1-PRO-FLEX-5w30_e.pdf

http://www.generaloils.net/PI_TITAN-GT1-PRO-C-3-5w30_e.pdf

in terms of VOA's, someone has to fork out the cash for it.

 

[21Rouge]

Originally Posted by Jimmy_Russells

Example:

Fuchs GT1 Pro Flex - LL04, dexos 2, 229.51/229.52, 502/505 00/505 01
Fuchs GT1 Pro C3 - LL04, 229.51, C30, 504/507

?


FWIW I have done a used oil analysis of the "Pro Flex"(albeit for not a long OCI).

(And I will likely run the Pro C3 starting later this Fall).

 

[Jimmy_Russells]

Originally Posted by 21Rouge
Originally Posted by Jimmy_Russells

Example:

Fuchs GT1 Pro Flex - LL04, dexos 2, 229.51/229.52, 502/505 00/505 01
Fuchs GT1 Pro C3 - LL04, 229.51, C30, 504/507

?


FWIW I have done a used oil analysis of the "Pro Flex"(albeit for not a long OCI).

(And I will likely run the Pro C3 starting later this Fall).


I have used Fuchs quite a bit over the past years, all in VW applications, never had a problem. Debating between Fuchs or Pennzoil Euro for my next OCI. I don't really need the 0w though.

 

[21Rouge]

Originally Posted by Jimmy_Russells
Originally Posted by 21Rouge
Originally Posted by Jimmy_Russells

Example:

Fuchs GT1 Pro Flex - LL04, dexos 2, 229.51/229.52, 502/505 00/505 01
Fuchs GT1 Pro C3 - LL04, 229.51, C30, 504/507

?


FWIW I have done a used oil analysis of the "Pro Flex"(albeit for not a long OCI).

(And I will likely run the Pro C3 starting later this Fall).


I have used Fuchs quite a bit over the past years, all in VW applications, never had a problem. Debating between Fuchs or Pennzoil Euro for my next OCI. I don't really need the 0w though.


(Maybe this has already come up ie have you considered the Pennzoil Platinum Euro SN 0w40 PLUS? (I know it isnt a 504/507 certified oil but it does have 502/505 and a slew of other approvals))

 

[Jimmy_Russells]

Originally Posted by 21Rouge
Originally Posted by Jimmy_Russells
Originally Posted by 21Rouge
Originally Posted by Jimmy_Russells

Example:

Fuchs GT1 Pro Flex - LL04, dexos 2, 229.51/229.52, 502/505 00/505 01
Fuchs GT1 Pro C3 - LL04, 229.51, C30, 504/507

?


FWIW I have done a used oil analysis of the "Pro Flex"(albeit for not a long OCI).

(And I will likely run the Pro C3 starting later this Fall).


I have used Fuchs quite a bit over the past years, all in VW applications, never had a problem. Debating between Fuchs or Pennzoil Euro for my next OCI. I don't really need the 0w though.


(Maybe this has already come up ie have you considered the Pennzoil Platinum Euro SN 0w40 PLUS? (I know it isnt a 504/507 certified oil but it does have 502/505 and a slew of other approvals))


I have, however my engine (2.5T) is the only engine in the Audi/VW lineup where they specify 5w30, and they only recently updated this file to include 502, last year it was 504 only. I don't know why that is, but I don't really want to mess with it either. I asked the dealer what their system says and when you punch in my VIN, it states 5w30 LL03 (504). However as you can see on the other cars they say 504 is ok but then ask for 5w40, which isn't even a thing. I'm sure as long as it's either spec warranty will apply but I don't know that I want to go into a full saps oil either, which is actually why I started researching these C3 502 spec oils in the first place.

 

[edyvw]

Originally Posted by zeng
502/505.01 C3 for fixed drain intervals, PD system.

504/507 C3 for extended drain intervals, DPF.

VW 505.01 is also compatible with DPF systems.

 

[edyvw]

Quote
I have, however my engine (2.5T) is the only engine in the Audi/VW lineup where they specify 5w30, and they only recently updated this file to include 502, last year it was 504 only. I don't know why that is, but I don't really want to mess with it either. I asked the dealer what their system says and when you punch in my VIN, it states 5w30 LL03 (504). However as you can see on the other cars they say 504 is ok but then ask for 5w40, which isn't even a thing. I'm sure as long as it's either spec warranty will apply but I don't know that I want to go into a full saps oil either, which is actually why I started researching these C3 502 spec oils in the first place.

You are still believer that VW knows what oils to recommend? They are like Hyundai, trying to figure out proper oils since 1990's.
By the way, I told you some time ago that VW502.00 is OK in your car.

 

[Jimmy_Russells]

Originally Posted by edyvw

You are still believer that VW knows what oils to recommend? They are like Hyundai, trying to figure out proper oils since 1990's.
By the way, I told you some time ago that VW502.00 is OK in your car.


Hey edy

So, if something happens and my engine explodes, whether it is oil related or not, will you cover the $25k for new engine installation? Because in that case I will not worry about what Audi/VW say and just do what you say.

 

[Jimmy_Russells]

All I am saying is while the car is under warranty, I want to use the recommended oil - That's it. If the car was not in warranty I would not care. My wife's Wrangler has had many OCI without MS-6395 since warranty expired. You can see in my post with the oil recommendations, they were revised in March. So if 502 is now spec'd for the engine, that is fine, but it was not spec'd for the engine back in November/December when the last OCI came around.

 

[edyvw]

Originally Posted by Jimmy_Russells
All I am saying is while the car is under warranty, I want to use the recommended oil - That's it. If the car was not in warranty I would not care. My wife's Wrangler has had many OCI without MS-6395 since warranty expired. You can see in my post with the oil recommendations, they were revised in March. So if 502 is now spec'd for the engine, that is fine, but it was not spec'd for the engine back in November/December when the last OCI came around.

So, your dealership will put VW 502.00 5W40, while car requires 5W30? So if engine fails, why did it fail? Bcs it is 5W40 and not 5W30? I highly doubt VW wants that in court.
I had three VW's with warranty, with language VW 502.00 5W40, but I have never used 5W40.

 

[Jimmy_Russells]

Originally Posted by edyvw
Originally Posted by Jimmy_Russells
All I am saying is while the car is under warranty, I want to use the recommended oil - That's it. If the car was not in warranty I would not care. My wife's Wrangler has had many OCI without MS-6395 since warranty expired. You can see in my post with the oil recommendations, they were revised in March. So if 502 is now spec'd for the engine, that is fine, but it was not spec'd for the engine back in November/December when the last OCI came around.

So, your dealership will put VW 502.00 5W40, while car requires 5W30? So if engine fails, why did it fail? Bcs it is 5W40 and not 5W30? I highly doubt VW wants that in court.
I had three VW's with warranty, with language VW 502.00 5W40, but I have never used 5W40.


I said earlier that the spec for my car is 504 in their computer when they punch in my VIN. I had them do the first oil change last year because the first one is included. Again this was late last year so maybe things have changed now and it says either spec, but I am not sure on that.

What I am saying is that if something happens, I don't want to give them an excuse. Let's say my car sticks an injector and burns a piston, (which has happened several times with this engine btw) this is not even an oil related failure. But, what is to stop them from asking for my receipts, seeing the oil is "wrong," and then denying warranty? Then it's up to me to get a lawyer and spend a bunch of money just to prove them wrong. I don't want to deal with that kind of thing when I can just use the "correct" oil in the first place.

I agree with you the specs are not well defined and it's confusing as [censored]. Maybe in their system if you punch in the VIN the proper oil comes up and that's all they care about, screw the DIY guy and the independent shops. I also agree with you there is an extremely high likelihood there are dealerships out there putting the "wrong" oil in the wrong engines, especially with the new engines that use 508 spec. However none of that is relevant to my situation. I'm just not a "good enough" guy, I want to do things the correct and proper way.

 

[edyvw]

Originally Posted by Jimmy_Russells
Originally Posted by edyvw
Originally Posted by Jimmy_Russells
All I am saying is while the car is under warranty, I want to use the recommended oil - That's it. If the car was not in warranty I would not care. My wife's Wrangler has had many OCI without MS-6395 since warranty expired. You can see in my post with the oil recommendations, they were revised in March. So if 502 is now spec'd for the engine, that is fine, but it was not spec'd for the engine back in November/December when the last OCI came around.

So, your dealership will put VW 502.00 5W40, while car requires 5W30? So if engine fails, why did it fail? Bcs it is 5W40 and not 5W30? I highly doubt VW wants that in court.
I had three VW's with warranty, with language VW 502.00 5W40, but I have never used 5W40.


I said earlier that the spec for my car is 504 in their computer when they punch in my VIN. I had them do the first oil change last year because the first one is included. Again this was late last year so maybe things have changed now and it says either spec, but I am not sure on that.

What I am saying is that if something happens, I don't want to give them an excuse. Let's say my car sticks an injector and burns a piston, (which has happened several times with this engine btw) this is not even an oil related failure. But, what is to stop them from asking for my receipts, seeing the oil is "wrong," and then denying warranty? Then it's up to me to get a lawyer and spend a bunch of money just to prove them wrong. I don't want to deal with that kind of thing when I can just use the "correct" oil in the first place.

I agree with you the specs are not well defined and it's confusing as [censored]. Maybe in their system if you punch in the VIN the proper oil comes up and that's all they care about, screw the DIY guy and the independent shops. I also agree with you there is an extremely high likelihood there are dealerships out there putting the "wrong" oil in the wrong engines, especially with the new engines that use 508 spec. However none of that is relevant to my situation. I'm just not a "good enough" guy, I want to do things the correct and proper way.


If you used 0W40 VW 502.00 and your injector got stuck, there is no way they will argue that. Absolutely not. Unless the manager is stupid idiot who got sick of his job.
I never had any big warranty claims on VW, except wheel bearing on B5.5, but on BMW I had some warranty claims, expensive ones related to that 1st generation SCR system, which is very oil related. They actually asked my several times what oil I used, I would tell them what, and they never checked on their side am I telling truth or not. Only record they had was that I bought oil filter from them.
I highly doubt VW wishes another class action suit.
As for them punching VIN, is that the reason why they use 5W40 in vehicles that call for VW508.00/509.00?