Bye Bye to my Toyota !
- Thread starter milwaukee
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We must be oddballs because my Wife and I really like our 2008 Sienna. I did not look at the Dodge Caravan when we purchased, however, about 9 months later I had the chance to drive a 2008 Dodge as a rental. I knew within the first 2 mile I made the right choice.
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Originally Posted By: milwaukee
Finally had all I could stand of my 08 Sienna. Traded it on a lightly used Expedition Eddie Bauer. I got a big fat number on trade because of toyota's "reputation" and got a great price on the gas hog expedition. A large third row vehicle is the smallest thing my family can happily live with.
After 16 months with my toyota I had:
bad cat converter around 2500 miles (three trips to dealer before replaced)
broken drivers seat (two trips to dealer before replaced)
broken drivers seat #2 (two trips to dealer-regional service guy "adjusted and repaired" my seat on second trip)
broken seat #3 (after second seat was "adjusted/repaired")-dealer and toyota cororate refused to schedule a service appt "until toyota could develop a solution" instead of just replacing the seat
Total of seven dealer service visits in 16 months.
Toyota refused to replace seat a second time because they "can't find out why the part is breaking and toyota does not throw parts at problems" yet I have to keep driving a vehicle with a broken drivers seat while they call each other (service mgr, claim rep in CA, regional service mgr,etc) and promise to call you back.
Waiting three days for phone calls to be returned to be told one person left another a message and is waiting to hear back.
Add to all of this a HORRIBLE build quality and materials used in the interior of the vehicle. The car had at least four rattles in the car that could not be fixed and another that was 90% repaired. The stereo was JUNK. The van chewed up tires in no time and to top it off the front rotors were beginning to warp when traded with 33K miles.
I feel like a heavy load has been lifted from my shoulders.
IME
Toyota dealer service - F
Toyota corporate F
Toyota warranty service F
I have gone back to "domestic junk" that has never given me a major problem and have always gotten good service from the dealers.
We replaced a dog tired 98 Ford Windstar with 190K(which was a great vehicle for us) with the Sienna and would have bought a Ford Freestar but Ford quit the minivan platform which pushed us to toyota.
I will leave the toys to their many fans. I know toyota makes some good cars but when they make a they will tell you to pound sand.
My buddy did the exact same thing last year when he traded in his 07 Sienna for a slightly used 07 [5.4] Expedition...He had similiar issues like you did...He hated dealing with Toyota.
My sister had a lot of issues with her 07 Camry...She bought it brand new...She ended up trading it in for a slightly used 07 Grand Marquis...She also hated dealing with Toyota.
The both said it was like a heavy burden lifted from their shoulders when they got rid of their Toyotas.
My sisters previous car was a 94 Camry...She had over 200K miles on it and it had no issues...A/C was still ice cold and the a/c was never serviced and she never shut it off....Quality seemed to take a dump along the way somewhere.
Overall Toyota service is a nightmare in the Fort Lauderdale-Miami area...They have a I don't care attitude...I know of people who took their cars in for oil changes at a Toyota dealer only to find out later it was never changed.
Finally had all I could stand of my 08 Sienna. Traded it on a lightly used Expedition Eddie Bauer. I got a big fat number on trade because of toyota's "reputation" and got a great price on the gas hog expedition. A large third row vehicle is the smallest thing my family can happily live with.
After 16 months with my toyota I had:
bad cat converter around 2500 miles (three trips to dealer before replaced)
broken drivers seat (two trips to dealer before replaced)
broken drivers seat #2 (two trips to dealer-regional service guy "adjusted and repaired" my seat on second trip)
broken seat #3 (after second seat was "adjusted/repaired")-dealer and toyota cororate refused to schedule a service appt "until toyota could develop a solution" instead of just replacing the seat
Total of seven dealer service visits in 16 months.
Toyota refused to replace seat a second time because they "can't find out why the part is breaking and toyota does not throw parts at problems" yet I have to keep driving a vehicle with a broken drivers seat while they call each other (service mgr, claim rep in CA, regional service mgr,etc) and promise to call you back.
Waiting three days for phone calls to be returned to be told one person left another a message and is waiting to hear back.
Add to all of this a HORRIBLE build quality and materials used in the interior of the vehicle. The car had at least four rattles in the car that could not be fixed and another that was 90% repaired. The stereo was JUNK. The van chewed up tires in no time and to top it off the front rotors were beginning to warp when traded with 33K miles.
I feel like a heavy load has been lifted from my shoulders.
IME
Toyota dealer service - F
Toyota corporate F
Toyota warranty service F
I have gone back to "domestic junk" that has never given me a major problem and have always gotten good service from the dealers.
We replaced a dog tired 98 Ford Windstar with 190K(which was a great vehicle for us) with the Sienna and would have bought a Ford Freestar but Ford quit the minivan platform which pushed us to toyota.
I will leave the toys to their many fans. I know toyota makes some good cars but when they make a they will tell you to pound sand.
My buddy did the exact same thing last year when he traded in his 07 Sienna for a slightly used 07 [5.4] Expedition...He had similiar issues like you did...He hated dealing with Toyota.
My sister had a lot of issues with her 07 Camry...She bought it brand new...She ended up trading it in for a slightly used 07 Grand Marquis...She also hated dealing with Toyota.
The both said it was like a heavy burden lifted from their shoulders when they got rid of their Toyotas.
My sisters previous car was a 94 Camry...She had over 200K miles on it and it had no issues...A/C was still ice cold and the a/c was never serviced and she never shut it off....Quality seemed to take a dump along the way somewhere.
Overall Toyota service is a nightmare in the Fort Lauderdale-Miami area...They have a I don't care attitude...I know of people who took their cars in for oil changes at a Toyota dealer only to find out later it was never changed.
Is your real problem with the van, or with the failure on the part of all concerned to deal honestly with the problems you encountered?
I have owned but one Toyota in all my driving years, an ancient ramp-front Corona, with which I was very impressed.
My impression has been that Toyota dealers are pretty much like Honda dealers, in that they are not really good at resolving customer warranty concerns.
Could it be that Honda and Toyota have survived and propered simply because their past products rarely required much warranty work?
There are clear indications that Toyota design and build quality have declined, and the same may be true of Honda.
If this is actually a trend, combine it with indifferent warranty service, and both makes may be headed for a declining future.
I have owned but one Toyota in all my driving years, an ancient ramp-front Corona, with which I was very impressed.
My impression has been that Toyota dealers are pretty much like Honda dealers, in that they are not really good at resolving customer warranty concerns.
Could it be that Honda and Toyota have survived and propered simply because their past products rarely required much warranty work?
There are clear indications that Toyota design and build quality have declined, and the same may be true of Honda.
If this is actually a trend, combine it with indifferent warranty service, and both makes may be headed for a declining future.
Save your breath he is convinced it is a Toyota "quality" problem.
For the rest of the group... Of all the Toyota's we have seen and serviced up here the only ones that had any issues at all were the Sludgers. After that was fixed by Toyota the only thing we ever seemed to do on Toyota vehicles was regular maintenance and all saw extremely long lives (400K KM - 240K+ Miles) Most still had the original air conditioning working after 15 years!
All manufacturers have lemons here/there. It happens... It's just how many they have and from what I have seen Toyota is way down on the list for this problem with the exception of the sludgers. (These plagued a few brands of this era)
The "Domestics" up here seem to be a different story although they are getting better as of late.
For the rest of the group... Of all the Toyota's we have seen and serviced up here the only ones that had any issues at all were the Sludgers. After that was fixed by Toyota the only thing we ever seemed to do on Toyota vehicles was regular maintenance and all saw extremely long lives (400K KM - 240K+ Miles) Most still had the original air conditioning working after 15 years!
All manufacturers have lemons here/there. It happens... It's just how many they have and from what I have seen Toyota is way down on the list for this problem with the exception of the sludgers. (These plagued a few brands of this era)
The "Domestics" up here seem to be a different story although they are getting better as of late.
Originally Posted By: tig1
AC should last forever considering you live in Canada where it never gets above 30F. Ha Ha.
You're a funny guy...
I run mine all day long in the summer & winter. To keep my mobile office cool in the summer and dry in the winter.
AC should last forever considering you live in Canada where it never gets above 30F. Ha Ha.
You're a funny guy...
I run mine all day long in the summer & winter. To keep my mobile office cool in the summer and dry in the winter.
JTK
$100 Site Donor 2025
Milwaukee, out of curiosity, what exactly was breaking on the driver's seat? That's a weird, annoying and isolated issue indeed. With respect to the 'Cadillac' converter failure. That's another problem you see here and there with all makes/models, especially with large V6s and multi-cat systems. That will take at least 2 dealer trips to diagnose. Usually more. FWIW, my 2008 Odyssey is a squeaky, rattly, road noisy beast, but it handles like a giant Civic and da missus loves it. It is however the most basic LX model money can buy. On a recent trip to FL. We rented an '09 Sienna. It was quieter and much more cushy than our Ody, but the interior fit/feel/finish wasn't so great. I was surprised at how ballzy the Sienna was. I thought the Ody had some scoots. That Sienna had more.
Joel
Joel
Originally Posted By: StevieC
Of all the Toyota's we have seen and serviced up here the only ones that had any issues at all were the Sludgers.
My buddies '08 Tundra has numerous issues, but all minor.
Toyota's quality high point was back in the 90's, back then they had a real advantage over the domestics. I don't see that advantage today at all.
Of all the Toyota's we have seen and serviced up here the only ones that had any issues at all were the Sludgers.
My buddies '08 Tundra has numerous issues, but all minor.
Toyota's quality high point was back in the 90's, back then they had a real advantage over the domestics. I don't see that advantage today at all.
Originally Posted By: Ben99GT
Originally Posted By: StevieC
Of all the Toyota's we have seen and serviced up here the only ones that had any issues at all were the Sludgers.
My buddies '08 Tundra has numerous issues, but all minor.
Toyota's quality high point was back in the 90's, back then they had a real advantage over the domestics. I don't see that advantage today at all.
I couldn't agree more with the Honda/Toyota quality in the early/mid 90's.
Seems like they are all about the same any more with each make/model having some quirk.
Originally Posted By: StevieC
Of all the Toyota's we have seen and serviced up here the only ones that had any issues at all were the Sludgers.
My buddies '08 Tundra has numerous issues, but all minor.
Toyota's quality high point was back in the 90's, back then they had a real advantage over the domestics. I don't see that advantage today at all.
I couldn't agree more with the Honda/Toyota quality in the early/mid 90's.
Seems like they are all about the same any more with each make/model having some quirk.
Originally Posted By: Ben99GT
Originally Posted By: StevieC
Of all the Toyota's we have seen and serviced up here the only ones that had any issues at all were the Sludgers.
My buddies '08 Tundra has numerous issues, but all minor.
Toyota's quality high point was back in the 90's, back then they had a real advantage over the domestics. I don't see that advantage today at all.
Isn't like that up here in my neck of the woods... Honda's too... Only thing plaguing them is the transmission problem with some models.
Originally Posted By: StevieC
Of all the Toyota's we have seen and serviced up here the only ones that had any issues at all were the Sludgers.
My buddies '08 Tundra has numerous issues, but all minor.
Toyota's quality high point was back in the 90's, back then they had a real advantage over the domestics. I don't see that advantage today at all.
Isn't like that up here in my neck of the woods... Honda's too... Only thing plaguing them is the transmission problem with some models.
Originally Posted By: Ben99GT
Why would your neck of the woods be different than everywhere else?
I can't explain it any other way...
Why would your neck of the woods be different than everywhere else?
I can't explain it any other way...
Originally Posted By: StevieC
Save your breath he is convinced it is a Toyota "quality" problem.
For the rest of the group... Of all the Toyota's we have seen and serviced up here the only ones that had any issues at all were the Sludgers. After that was fixed by Toyota the only thing we ever seemed to do on Toyota vehicles was regular maintenance and all saw extremely long lives (400K KM - 240K+ Miles) Most still had the original air conditioning working after 15 years!
All manufacturers have lemons here/there. It happens... It's just how many they have and from what I have seen Toyota is way down on the list for this problem with the exception of the sludgers. (These plagued a few brands of this era)
The "Domestics" up here seem to be a different story although they are getting better as of late.
I had a 00 Tacoma 4x4 with automatic/4 cylinder bought brand new in 2000. Seven years later and 84,000 on it, with zero problems (not one penny in repairs), I sold it for 10,000 bucks.
Current car, the 08 Corolla has been trouble free since I bought it new (20,500 miles ago). No rattling, broken chairs, etc.
Bill in Utah has an 05 Corolla with 150K on it last I checked with zero problems.
Problems can happen with foreign and domestic cars. I own one of each and they are both 100 percent problem free.
Save your breath he is convinced it is a Toyota "quality" problem.
For the rest of the group... Of all the Toyota's we have seen and serviced up here the only ones that had any issues at all were the Sludgers. After that was fixed by Toyota the only thing we ever seemed to do on Toyota vehicles was regular maintenance and all saw extremely long lives (400K KM - 240K+ Miles) Most still had the original air conditioning working after 15 years!
All manufacturers have lemons here/there. It happens... It's just how many they have and from what I have seen Toyota is way down on the list for this problem with the exception of the sludgers. (These plagued a few brands of this era)
The "Domestics" up here seem to be a different story although they are getting better as of late.
I had a 00 Tacoma 4x4 with automatic/4 cylinder bought brand new in 2000. Seven years later and 84,000 on it, with zero problems (not one penny in repairs), I sold it for 10,000 bucks.
Current car, the 08 Corolla has been trouble free since I bought it new (20,500 miles ago). No rattling, broken chairs, etc.
Bill in Utah has an 05 Corolla with 150K on it last I checked with zero problems.
Problems can happen with foreign and domestic cars. I own one of each and they are both 100 percent problem free.
OVERKILL
$100 Site Donor 2021
Originally Posted By: StevieC
Originally Posted By: Ben99GT
Originally Posted By: StevieC
Of all the Toyota's we have seen and serviced up here the only ones that had any issues at all were the Sludgers.
My buddies '08 Tundra has numerous issues, but all minor.
Toyota's quality high point was back in the 90's, back then they had a real advantage over the domestics. I don't see that advantage today at all.
Isn't like that up here in my neck of the woods... Honda's too... Only thing plaguing them is the transmission problem with some models.
My old landlord, as well as a good friend of mine's MIL have early 2000's Civics. Both have had numerous front-end suspension problems.
Originally Posted By: Ben99GT
Originally Posted By: StevieC
Of all the Toyota's we have seen and serviced up here the only ones that had any issues at all were the Sludgers.
My buddies '08 Tundra has numerous issues, but all minor.
Toyota's quality high point was back in the 90's, back then they had a real advantage over the domestics. I don't see that advantage today at all.
Isn't like that up here in my neck of the woods... Honda's too... Only thing plaguing them is the transmission problem with some models.
My old landlord, as well as a good friend of mine's MIL have early 2000's Civics. Both have had numerous front-end suspension problems.
Originally Posted By: StevieC
Save your breath he is convinced it is a Toyota "quality" problem.
Huh?
The quality of the interior on my sienna is total garbage. Except or the bad cat the engine and trans were great. Everything else on the van was second rate.
Thanks for deciding what my opinion is stevieC. I wished you were here to help show me how my toyota didn't suck.
Save your breath he is convinced it is a Toyota "quality" problem.
Huh?
The quality of the interior on my sienna is total garbage. Except or the bad cat the engine and trans were great. Everything else on the van was second rate.
Thanks for deciding what my opinion is stevieC. I wished you were here to help show me how my toyota didn't suck.
Overkill,crownvic4life,
I will drive a CV to work in the morning. It has 100K+ miles of the most severe service I can imagine. It has fewer rattles than my sienna had at 25K miles of kid hauling. Other than a fuel pump @70K it has had nothing but basic maintenence.
Very few cars on this planet could hold up to the abuse CV's see everyday.
I will drive a CV to work in the morning. It has 100K+ miles of the most severe service I can imagine. It has fewer rattles than my sienna had at 25K miles of kid hauling. Other than a fuel pump @70K it has had nothing but basic maintenence.
Very few cars on this planet could hold up to the abuse CV's see everyday.
If they all have the same problems, it's probably not a "quality" problem, it's an "engineering" problem.
A "quality" problem can be fixed with a new part that meets specifications, which the original part did not. An "engineering" problem requires a redesigned part with different specifications because the original specifications are not adequate.
A quality problem is a loose bolt.
An engineering problem is a bolt in the wrong place.
A "quality" problem can be fixed with a new part that meets specifications, which the original part did not. An "engineering" problem requires a redesigned part with different specifications because the original specifications are not adequate.
A quality problem is a loose bolt.
An engineering problem is a bolt in the wrong place.
Originally Posted By: milwaukee
Overkill,crownvic4life,
I will drive a CV to work in the morning. It has 100K+ miles of the most severe service I can imagine. It has fewer rattles than my sienna had at 25K miles of kid hauling. Other than a fuel pump @70K it has had nothing but basic maintenence.
Very few cars on this planet could hold up to the abuse CV's see everyday.
An't that the truth!
Overkill,crownvic4life,
I will drive a CV to work in the morning. It has 100K+ miles of the most severe service I can imagine. It has fewer rattles than my sienna had at 25K miles of kid hauling. Other than a fuel pump @70K it has had nothing but basic maintenence.
Very few cars on this planet could hold up to the abuse CV's see everyday.
An't that the truth!
Originally Posted By: brianl703
A quality problem is a loose bolt.
An engineering problem is a bolt in the wrong place.
If we can reduce a bolt to save 10c and only 0.001% of the people will notice the difference, but turns out 1% of the people will, it is an accounting problem.
A quality problem is a loose bolt.
An engineering problem is a bolt in the wrong place.
If we can reduce a bolt to save 10c and only 0.001% of the people will notice the difference, but turns out 1% of the people will, it is an accounting problem.
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