Toyota’s and Michelin’s

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dcd

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Aug 17, 2003
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Chattanooga, TN
Yesterday I took my 2018 Tundra (purchased new in January) in for its first oil change at 4400 miles. I ended up leaving the dealer in a rental car because they found an oil leak at the sending unit. They will be ordering the part and fixing it next week. I was pleased with the service experience and glad they offered the rental so no issues there, but very disappointed as I guess I had bought in to the Toyota reliability myth.

You see, in 20 years I’ve purchased 12 vehicles (10 of them new). Among the first 10 were 5 Fords, 2 Rams, 2 Hondas and a Mazda. The last two were Toyotas: a 2015 Camry and the 2018 Tundra. The Camry has been ok mechanically but just feels cheap and has two distinctive rattles since new that the dealer was unable to fix. On the annoyance scale, both these rattles top anything I’ve experienced in the other vehicles. Until yesterday I had been very pleased with the Tundra aside from gas mileage. Having an oil leak has only occurred on one of the other vehicles - a 2006 F-250 6.0 diesel which I traded for the 2006 Escape after the dealer kept replacing parts without fixing the oil leak(s). Except for the F250 my other vehicles have been decently reliable, so I expected at least the same from a tried and true Toyota.

I realize I may be some kind of statistical anomaly, but that type of luck always seems to follow me. A similar thing happened to me once in 2003 with a set of brand new Michelin tires on my wife’s Honda Accord. You seem to run into a lot of people who swear by Michelin tires, much like Toyota vehicles. So l bought the most expensive model available in the size to fit her car. Well they kept blowing out for no apparent reason, leaving my wife stranded and luckily not in an accident. This happened twice within the first 5000 miles. Of course I was blamed for low tire pressure which is absolutely false. I would see similar comments on Tire Rack for a few days before they were deleted. I left a review on Tire Rack that was also deleted. I’m convinced there was a manufacturing defect that Michelin didn’t own up to. They were so pricey that I think they were low volume and therefore did not get a lot of publicity. I ended up buying another set of brand new tires to replace those practically brand new Michelins.

I think both these experiences have taught me to just buy what I like, within reason, and not worry so much about what ABC magazine or Consumers Report says. I know so many people including coworkers and family members that won’t buy anything but Honda or Toyota and Michelin tires. My experience with them is they are not that exceptional.

I bought the Tundra ironically based on price and features and Toyota reliability was just an added benefit, so I thought. I really wanted an F150 supercab Lariat, but refused to pay more than for a crewcab Lariat. Whether true or not, Ford dealer told me that Ford did not discount the supercabs as much. So I got the Toyota which has a perfect sized double cab IMO and is priced cheaper and with more features than the Lariat supercab.
 
Tundras are manufactured in North America right? I think a lot of the reliability rumors come from Toyota vehicles made in Japan. The parts can be great but the assembly line work also counts and it seems like the fit and finish of Japanese made Toyotas is superior to the NA made models. (and this is coming from a Tacoma owner whose truck was assembled in San Antonio)

Anyway I wouldn't let this be a harbinger of your Tundra ownership experience to come. Chances are you'll be tired of your Tundra before it gives up on you in the long run.
 
I really think all cars are the same now. My last car was a 2015 Grand Cherokee, went in for one repair in 70k miles - a leaky strut.

A sending unit is a very minor repair, hopefully you'll have the same luck I had with my Jeep and it'll be the only repair.

There's nothing magical about Toyota reliability. Good cars, but they still can break like any other vehicle on the road.
 
I think Toyota and Michelin both make largely average products with one or two standouts. Both ride on their reputations and you can usually get a better product for less money.
 
Originally Posted By: Reddy45
Tundras are manufactured in North America right? I think a lot of the reliability rumors come from Toyota vehicles made in Japan. The parts can be great but the assembly line work also counts and it seems like the fit and finish of Japanese made Toyotas is superior to the NA made models....


+1

All my Toys have a "J" as the first letter in their VIN.
 
I'm not seeing the big deal with a $40 part leaking some oil. Stuff happens, there's defects with any part. Nothing is totally perfect.

21.gif
 
Originally Posted By: dcd


I realize I may be some kind of statistical anomaly, but that type of luck always seems to follow me. A similar thing happened to me once in 2003 with a set of brand new Michelin tires on my wife’s Honda Accord. You seem to run into a lot of people who swear by Michelin tires, much like Toyota vehicles. So l bought the most expensive model available in the size to fit her car. Well they kept blowing out for no apparent reason, leaving my wife stranded and luckily not in an accident. This happened twice within the first 5000 miles. Of course I was blamed for low tire pressure which is absolutely false. I would see similar comments on Tire Rack for a few days before they were deleted. I left a review on Tire Rack that was also deleted. I’m convinced there was a manufacturing defect that Michelin didn’t own up to. They were so pricey that I think they were low volume and therefore did not get a lot of publicity. I ended up buying another set of brand new tires to replace those practically brand new Michelins.


I swore off those tires years ago. I found their CS sucks along with the tires. They have almost a cult like following and people swear by them. I will never own them. Interesting observation about the reviews, it doesn't surprise me one bit.
 
I have a set of Michelin Energy Saver A/S on my Escape. They are standard equipment. They have been good tires for 24,000 miles.They aren’t the best in wet conditions. That’s the only thing lacking on them. Will I put on another set? No! I’ ll find something else and I won’t be looking to Consumer Reports or Tire Rack for recommendations. Been there with General Altimax RT43s and I have learned my lesson.
 
Originally Posted By: MParr
I have a set of Michelin Energy Saver A/S on my Escape. They are standard equipment. They have been good tires for 24,000 miles.They aren’t the best in wet conditions. That’s the only thing lacking on them. Will I put on another set? No! I’ ll find something else and I won’t be looking to Consumer Reports or Tire Rack for recommendations. Been there with General Altimax RT43s and I have learned my lesson.


What issues did you have with the generals? They are generally regarded in professional and amateur tests as one of the best tires for the money. Tons of people here have them and love them, myself included.
 
I use to be a worry wort and my wife and I owned reliable Japanese vehicles in the past.

My GTI has had a few problems, but it doesn't bother me. Has 134K on it, owned since new.
Does Toyota even have a sporty compact?

The Slow Toyota 86 doesn't count because it's not practical. I bet some members here don't know what a Toyota 86 even is.

I had Michelin Pilot Sport A/S 3's on my GTI and wasn't impressed with them at all.
In my opinion, Michelin quickly introduced Pilot Sport A/S 3+ probably because the prior tire sucked.
 
Originally Posted By: skyactiv

The Slow Toyota 86 doesn't count because it's not practical. I bet some members here don't know what a Toyota 86 even is.


On what planet is 0-60 in 6.2 slow? It's not crazy fast but it's not slow. And the 86 has a usable back seat so it's as practical as a 2 door gets.

To the OP - I'd not worry about initial issues affecting long term reliability. IMHO they are often not related. My Taurus needed a few things repaired under warranty and after that it's been dead reliable @ 126k.
 
Originally Posted By: Reddy45
Tundras are manufactured in North America right? I think a lot of the reliability rumors come from Toyota vehicles made in Japan. The parts can be great but the assembly line work also counts and it seems like the fit and finish of Japanese made Toyotas is superior to the NA made models. (and this is coming from a Tacoma owner whose truck was assembled in San Antonio)

Anyway I wouldn't let this be a harbinger of your Tundra ownership experience to come. Chances are you'll be tired of your Tundra before it gives up on you in the long run.


Very good points. I’ve also heard that NA Toyota’s may not match the ones with J’s in the VIN in reliability. Maybe that’s the case here. I do have a tendency not to keep a vehicle past 100k, but hoping this Tundra will be the exception.
 
Originally Posted By: Nick1994
I'm not seeing the big deal with a $40 part leaking some oil. Stuff happens, there's defects with any part. Nothing is totally perfect.

21.gif



Don’t know yet whether it was the part or stripped threads during assembly. Not saying it’s a big deal, just didn’t expect it from Toyota.
 
Originally Posted By: dblshock
if you kept your cars twenty years instead of two your opinion may differ widely.


Maybe so. I typically keep 2-3 cars at any given time so it’s not as simple as 20 divided by 10, so I’m averaging at least 4 years per car. A few cars in my younger days were kept only a year and really skew the averages. I’ve had the Escape in my sig for 12 years now so that’s definitely an exception.
 
Originally Posted By: skyactiv
I use to be a worry wort and my wife and I owned reliable Japanese vehicles in the past.

My GTI has had a few problems, but it doesn't bother me. Has 134K on it, owned since new.
Does Toyota even have a sporty compact?

The Slow Toyota 86 doesn't count because it's not practical. I bet some members here don't know what a Toyota 86 even is.

I had Michelin Pilot Sport A/S 3's on my GTI and wasn't impressed with them at all.
In my opinion, Michelin quickly introduced Pilot Sport A/S 3+ probably because the prior tire sucked.


I really want to get a small sporty car sometime and the GTI is currently at the top of my list and strangely I also like the Mini Cooper. I’d prefer something with rear wheel drive and rear seat space, but that’s hard to find.
 
Originally Posted By: itguy08
Originally Posted By: skyactiv

The Slow Toyota 86 doesn't count because it's not practical. I bet some members here don't know what a Toyota 86 even is.

To the OP - I'd not worry about initial issues affecting long term reliability. IMHO they are often not related. My Taurus needed a few things repaired under warranty and after that it's been dead reliable @ 126k.


Agreed. Several of my vehicles have had an issue or two early under warranty and were reliable thereafter. My Escape has been extremely reliable at 155k but had a major power steering issue under warranty.
 
"an oil leak at the sending unit" and "very disappointed as I guess I had bought into the Toyota reliability myth"?
I don't see what the big deal is here. This comes across to me as being "hyper critical" and unrealistic. If Toyotas were all "perfect", there wouldn't be service and parts departments at the Toyota dealers.
IMO Toyota DOES manufacture the most durable and reliable vehicles on the market, and they have for a very long time. One little oil pressure sender leak does not make this a "myth" and certainly doesn't make the whole truck unreliable. The Tundra has ranked #1 in the reliability ratings among pickups since they first came out, but that doesn't mean that there haven't been any problems. ALL vehicles have problems. Toyota products just tend to have fewer of them.
 
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Originally Posted By: wayne50
I have a different take. I just wonder why it's taking that long to get the replacement part.


They gave me a rental once they spotted the leak on Friday. They hadn’t yet diagnosed whether it was the part itself or stripped threads (perhaps cross threaded?) causing the leak. Should be fixed Tuesday or Wednesday I would think. Seems reasonable.
 
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