I bought a set of 4 RT43S for a 2006 Hyudai Tucson. 3 of the 4 were out of round and out laterally. Made in Romania. I will never buy a General Tire again. Enough said.
Toyota’s and Michelin’s
- Thread starter dcd
- Start date
- Status
Don't really think it is practical to think of the all the thousands of parts that go in to making a vehicle-that a bad part isn't going to slip by every once in a while. It doesn't matter on the manufacturer.
AS far as Michelins are concerned-it seems a change has been made in their compound on all or some of their tire models and that's documented by others experience on this forum and elsewhere. The biggest issue has been dry rot.
AS far as Michelins are concerned-it seems a change has been made in their compound on all or some of their tire models and that's documented by others experience on this forum and elsewhere. The biggest issue has been dry rot.
Originally Posted By: CKN
Don't really think it is practical to think of the all the thousands of parts that go in to making a vehicle-that a bad part isn't going to slip by every once in a while. It doesn't matter on the manufacturer.
To take this one step further, NO auto manufacturing company produces all of the parts that go into their vehicles. Each of them has many hundreds of third party suppliers that provide many (or most) of the parts that go into their vehicles. It wouldn't be a stretch to say that today's auto companies are more like "assemblers" than actual manufacturers. Given the fact that, like any other company, they typically choose a supplier that can produce each part at the lowest possible cost, it amazes me that there aren't MORE bad parts getting into the vehicles that we buy.
Don't really think it is practical to think of the all the thousands of parts that go in to making a vehicle-that a bad part isn't going to slip by every once in a while. It doesn't matter on the manufacturer.
To take this one step further, NO auto manufacturing company produces all of the parts that go into their vehicles. Each of them has many hundreds of third party suppliers that provide many (or most) of the parts that go into their vehicles. It wouldn't be a stretch to say that today's auto companies are more like "assemblers" than actual manufacturers. Given the fact that, like any other company, they typically choose a supplier that can produce each part at the lowest possible cost, it amazes me that there aren't MORE bad parts getting into the vehicles that we buy.
Originally Posted By: wag123
The Tundra has ranked #1 in the reliability ratings among pickups since they first came out.
Why can't they sell them? Toyota guys use this same metric to prove Japanese passenger cars are better?
Now you have to have a Toyota made in Japan.....This goal posts moves A LOT!!!
2018 Quarter 2
Ford F-Series....451,138
Chevy Silverado.291,074
Ram...................233,539
GMC Sierra........100,874
Toyota Tundra......55,792
Nissan Titan........23,294
The Tundra has ranked #1 in the reliability ratings among pickups since they first came out.
Why can't they sell them? Toyota guys use this same metric to prove Japanese passenger cars are better?
Now you have to have a Toyota made in Japan.....This goal posts moves A LOT!!!
2018 Quarter 2
Ford F-Series....451,138
Chevy Silverado.291,074
Ram...................233,539
GMC Sierra........100,874
Toyota Tundra......55,792
Nissan Titan........23,294
I've been nothing short of impressed with every one of four sets of Michelin tires I've owned..having said that I'm also impressed by the current Continental oem rubber on my Civic Touring (especially ice and snow) and believe it or not the Falkin's in my sig are really sweet..the Indy 500's are spot-on too, can't even stress them much at my age..lol...maybe tires have just evolved?
I did have some bad bad Eagles back in '12, good for 20k then nightmares out to 60k then scraped.
I did have some bad bad Eagles back in '12, good for 20k then nightmares out to 60k then scraped.
Originally Posted By: clinebarger
Originally Posted By: wag123
The Tundra has ranked #1 in the reliability ratings among pickups since they first came out.
Why can't they sell them? Toyota guys use this same metric to prove Japanese passenger cars are better?
Now you have to have a Toyota made in Japan.....This goal posts moves A LOT!!!
2018 Quarter 2
Ford F-Series....451,138
Chevy Silverado.291,074
Ram...................233,539
GMC Sierra........100,874
Toyota Tundra......55,792
Nissan Titan........23,294
IMO there are several factors contributing to the lower sales of Tundras verses it's domestic brand competitors.
1. There are far fewer Toyota dealers nationwide than domestic brand dealers.
2. Toyota dealers are only found in larger cities. In many of the vast heartland/farmland/ranchland areas of the country, you would have to drive several hundred miles to get to a Toyota dealer while there are domestic brand dealers in virtually every small town in America with at least 3000 to 4000 people. As much as I like Toyota's vehicles, I wouldn't buy a new one if I had to drive 200 miles to get to a Toyota dealer when I had domestic brand dealers only 15 miles away.
3. Gas mileage. Everyone who owns a Tundra complains about their poor gas mileage. Tundras are built stout/heavy and Toyota is a conservative company that doesn't resort to building vehicles with technologies that can have questionable long-tern reliability/durability/repairability issues like... smaller turbocharged engines, variable cylinder deactivation, all-aluminum body structures, etc.
4. Brand loyalty. A large percentage of truck buyers are VERY brand loyal with ownership of specific brands in families that go back for generations. Toyota is a relative newcomer to the truck market with virtually no generational brand loyalty.
5. Import brand resistance (even hatred). This phenomenon is particularly pronounced in the vast heartland/farmland/ranchland areas of the country and union states.
Nissan truck sales also suffer from these same problems.
Originally Posted By: wag123
The Tundra has ranked #1 in the reliability ratings among pickups since they first came out.
Why can't they sell them? Toyota guys use this same metric to prove Japanese passenger cars are better?
Now you have to have a Toyota made in Japan.....This goal posts moves A LOT!!!
2018 Quarter 2
Ford F-Series....451,138
Chevy Silverado.291,074
Ram...................233,539
GMC Sierra........100,874
Toyota Tundra......55,792
Nissan Titan........23,294
IMO there are several factors contributing to the lower sales of Tundras verses it's domestic brand competitors.
1. There are far fewer Toyota dealers nationwide than domestic brand dealers.
2. Toyota dealers are only found in larger cities. In many of the vast heartland/farmland/ranchland areas of the country, you would have to drive several hundred miles to get to a Toyota dealer while there are domestic brand dealers in virtually every small town in America with at least 3000 to 4000 people. As much as I like Toyota's vehicles, I wouldn't buy a new one if I had to drive 200 miles to get to a Toyota dealer when I had domestic brand dealers only 15 miles away.
3. Gas mileage. Everyone who owns a Tundra complains about their poor gas mileage. Tundras are built stout/heavy and Toyota is a conservative company that doesn't resort to building vehicles with technologies that can have questionable long-tern reliability/durability/repairability issues like... smaller turbocharged engines, variable cylinder deactivation, all-aluminum body structures, etc.
4. Brand loyalty. A large percentage of truck buyers are VERY brand loyal with ownership of specific brands in families that go back for generations. Toyota is a relative newcomer to the truck market with virtually no generational brand loyalty.
5. Import brand resistance (even hatred). This phenomenon is particularly pronounced in the vast heartland/farmland/ranchland areas of the country and union states.
Nissan truck sales also suffer from these same problems.
Last edited:
I'm not a Toyota fan...I've owned a couple, and in my albeit limited experience they tend toward simple, stout engineering, which is all well and good, but the driving dynamics of their vehicles leave me cold as a rule. I could see myself in an Avalon, and that's about it. Very nice appliances.
My personal impression of Michelin is that they were miles ahead of everyone else back in the 60s and 70s, but in the decades since other manufacturers have caught up to them and surpassed them in some instances. I'm simply not willing to spend more money to get Michelin tires. I will admit that I've gotten good service out of BF Goodrich and Uniroyal tires, which are also Michelin brands, but they cost a heck of a lot less. My sweet spot on newer cars is Firestone/Bridgestone, and on kids' beaters, Sumitomo. I know it's silly but I prefer the Firestone versions of the Firestone & Bridgestone tires because I like the stylized "F" and the font on the sidewalls.
On the subject of Toyota trucks not making inroads in the US market, I try to buy what a vendor is best at. Don't go to a steakhouse and order seafood, go to a seafood place. If I wanted a full size truck I'd look at Ford and RAM and the GM twins, wouldn't even cross my mind to look at Toyota or Nissan.
My personal impression of Michelin is that they were miles ahead of everyone else back in the 60s and 70s, but in the decades since other manufacturers have caught up to them and surpassed them in some instances. I'm simply not willing to spend more money to get Michelin tires. I will admit that I've gotten good service out of BF Goodrich and Uniroyal tires, which are also Michelin brands, but they cost a heck of a lot less. My sweet spot on newer cars is Firestone/Bridgestone, and on kids' beaters, Sumitomo. I know it's silly but I prefer the Firestone versions of the Firestone & Bridgestone tires because I like the stylized "F" and the font on the sidewalls.
On the subject of Toyota trucks not making inroads in the US market, I try to buy what a vendor is best at. Don't go to a steakhouse and order seafood, go to a seafood place. If I wanted a full size truck I'd look at Ford and RAM and the GM twins, wouldn't even cross my mind to look at Toyota or Nissan.
80's and 90's...reliability? oh yeah...especially compared to the domestic offering not even close back then. today, still good, but nowhere near what it used to be.
Originally Posted By: wag123
The Tundra has ranked #1 in the reliability ratings among pickups since they first came out, but that doesn't mean that there haven't been any problems. ALL vehicles have problems. Toyota products just tend to have fewer of them.
On which reliability ratings?
http://www.foxnews.com/auto/2018/02/14/t...ity-awards.html
Hint: No Tundra there
The Tundra has ranked #1 in the reliability ratings among pickups since they first came out, but that doesn't mean that there haven't been any problems. ALL vehicles have problems. Toyota products just tend to have fewer of them.
On which reliability ratings?
http://www.foxnews.com/auto/2018/02/14/t...ity-awards.html
Hint: No Tundra there
Originally Posted By: itguy08
Originally Posted By: wag123
The Tundra has ranked #1 in the reliability ratings among pickups since they first came out, but that doesn't mean that there haven't been any problems. ALL vehicles have problems. Toyota products just tend to have fewer of them.
On which reliability ratings?
http://www.foxnews.com/auto/2018/02/14/t...ity-awards.html
Hint: No Tundra there
Consumer Reports, derived from owner surveys.
Originally Posted By: wag123
The Tundra has ranked #1 in the reliability ratings among pickups since they first came out, but that doesn't mean that there haven't been any problems. ALL vehicles have problems. Toyota products just tend to have fewer of them.
On which reliability ratings?
http://www.foxnews.com/auto/2018/02/14/t...ity-awards.html
Hint: No Tundra there
Consumer Reports, derived from owner surveys.
The Tundra is a truck for Toyota brand loyalists. Nothing more. It gives them an offering for someone who already owns another Toyota vehicle (generally) and wants/needs a truck, and wishes to stay with the brand.
Not spending money for a substantial update on their trucks in 10 years- and the excuse they don't want to move away from "stout engineering" is really stretching it.
There will be no (substantial) updates because they can't compete (in this segment)-for whatever reasons.
Not spending money for a substantial update on their trucks in 10 years- and the excuse they don't want to move away from "stout engineering" is really stretching it.
There will be no (substantial) updates because they can't compete (in this segment)-for whatever reasons.
Originally Posted By: CKN
The Tundra is a truck for Toyota brand loyalists. Nothing more. It gives them an offering for someone who already owns another Toyota vehicle (generally) and wants/needs a truck, and wishes to stay with the brand.
Not spending money for a substantial update on their trucks in 10 years- and the excuse they don't want to move away from "stout engineering" is really stretching it.
There will be no (substantial) updates because they can't compete (in this segment)-for whatever reasons.
I guess that is why they are planning to introduce a ground-up redesigned 4th generation Tundra next year.
A full hybrid, a 6-cyl turbo-diesel, an HD 8-speed automatic, a new high performance DOHC aluminum 5.3L V/8 engine, upgraded/improved DOHC aluminum 4.0L V/6, 4.6L V/8, and 5.7L V/8 engines, and an optional factory lift w/35" tires will reportedly all be available. That will give the Tundra 5 different engine options plus a full hybrid, FAR more choices than any of their competitors.
Reportedly, 3/4 ton and 1 ton versions with a strong/stout Isuzu engineered turbo-diesel V/8 engine option will also be available.
The Tundra is a truck for Toyota brand loyalists. Nothing more. It gives them an offering for someone who already owns another Toyota vehicle (generally) and wants/needs a truck, and wishes to stay with the brand.
Not spending money for a substantial update on their trucks in 10 years- and the excuse they don't want to move away from "stout engineering" is really stretching it.
There will be no (substantial) updates because they can't compete (in this segment)-for whatever reasons.
I guess that is why they are planning to introduce a ground-up redesigned 4th generation Tundra next year.
A full hybrid, a 6-cyl turbo-diesel, an HD 8-speed automatic, a new high performance DOHC aluminum 5.3L V/8 engine, upgraded/improved DOHC aluminum 4.0L V/6, 4.6L V/8, and 5.7L V/8 engines, and an optional factory lift w/35" tires will reportedly all be available. That will give the Tundra 5 different engine options plus a full hybrid, FAR more choices than any of their competitors.
Reportedly, 3/4 ton and 1 ton versions with a strong/stout Isuzu engineered turbo-diesel V/8 engine option will also be available.
Originally Posted By: wag123
That will give the Tundra 5 different engine options plus a full hybrid, FAR more choices than any of their competitors.
Reportedly, 3/4 ton and 1 ton versions with a strong/stout Isuzu engineered turbo-diesel V/8 engine option will also be available.
Ford is also doing a Hybrid F150, supposedly in 2020 too. They have 6 different engines TODAY:
Chevy will have for 2019 :
That will give the Tundra 5 different engine options plus a full hybrid, FAR more choices than any of their competitors.
Reportedly, 3/4 ton and 1 ton versions with a strong/stout Isuzu engineered turbo-diesel V/8 engine option will also be available.
Ford is also doing a Hybrid F150, supposedly in 2020 too. They have 6 different engines TODAY:
- 3.3L NA V6
- 2.7L Ecoboost V6
- 3.0L Turbo Diesel
- 3.5L Ecoboost V6
- 5.0L V8
- 3.5L HO Ecoboost V6 (Raptor)
Chevy will have for 2019 :
- 2.7 I4
- 4.3L V6
- 5.3L V8
- 6.2L V8
- 3.0 TurboDiesel
Last edited:
Originally Posted By: itguy08
Originally Posted By: wag123
Consumer Reports, derived from owner surveys.
JD Powers also does consumer surveys.
I received one from JD Power with a crisp $1 bill inside!
So I logged on to take the survey and it was 100 questions about the dealership experience and nothing about the car. They bury trick questions in to make sure you're paying attention - "no matter what your opinion is select 4".
I'm sure some people get 100 questions about the car.
Originally Posted By: wag123
Consumer Reports, derived from owner surveys.
JD Powers also does consumer surveys.
I received one from JD Power with a crisp $1 bill inside!
So I logged on to take the survey and it was 100 questions about the dealership experience and nothing about the car. They bury trick questions in to make sure you're paying attention - "no matter what your opinion is select 4".
I'm sure some people get 100 questions about the car.
Originally Posted By: CKN
The Tundra is a truck for Toyota brand loyalists. Nothing more. It gives them an offering for someone who already owns another Toyota vehicle (generally) and wants/needs a truck, and wishes to stay with the brand.
Yep. I wanted something that would have all the controls in the same spots as my other vehicles. Drove me nuts to have wiper stalks to worked opposite in different vehicles. [First world problems I know.] Wasn't using the truck to run some sort of business, I knew it was to be used as a toy, didn't have to be the best at anything.
The Tundra is a truck for Toyota brand loyalists. Nothing more. It gives them an offering for someone who already owns another Toyota vehicle (generally) and wants/needs a truck, and wishes to stay with the brand.
Yep. I wanted something that would have all the controls in the same spots as my other vehicles. Drove me nuts to have wiper stalks to worked opposite in different vehicles. [First world problems I know.] Wasn't using the truck to run some sort of business, I knew it was to be used as a toy, didn't have to be the best at anything.
Nothing wrong with Toyota vehicles, but it's the small group of special Toyota fans and their use of double standards and logical fallacies that irks me and probably a lot of others.
I believe vehicles built in Japan were better years ago, like before the turn of the century, but not anymore. Both American and Japanese plants give us some problematic products. Last vehicle purchases I decided to try Toyota for the first time in my life. Our 2013 Camry (made in Kentucky) has proven more solid than the 2015 Prius (made in Japan). The Prius is such a rattle trap, probably due to all that vibration coming through from the engine compartment. I thought the Toyota plants in Japan would care about the impression the Prius makes, but apparently not!
Michelin tires are likewise hit or miss. What is really bad is that their resellers (like Tirerack) delete negative reviews about them. The snobbish attitude of Michelin corporate is turn-off for sure.
The tire dealer can make all the difference, we shouldn't have to deal with the tire manufacturer. Likewise the Toyota dealer makes a big difference. When they behave like they're doing you a favor selling you this awesome vehicle, they are jerks. Instead they should try to help make their customers experience with the vehicle awesome.
Michelin tires are likewise hit or miss. What is really bad is that their resellers (like Tirerack) delete negative reviews about them. The snobbish attitude of Michelin corporate is turn-off for sure.
The tire dealer can make all the difference, we shouldn't have to deal with the tire manufacturer. Likewise the Toyota dealer makes a big difference. When they behave like they're doing you a favor selling you this awesome vehicle, they are jerks. Instead they should try to help make their customers experience with the vehicle awesome.
- Status
