Break-In Oil. Theories.

[circuitsmith]

Originally Posted By: nola000
Ill be changing the oil about 6 times in the first 500 miles of this process.


This is way excessive, and wouldn't make up for a shoddy rebuild job that wasn't done with proper cleanup.
First change at 500 miles is plenty soon.

 

[W3DRK]

Lots of opinions here and it sounds like you've already made up your mind, but I'll share mine anyway.

1) You're thinking about this too hard. This is an econobox 4-banger, not a top-fuel drag motor.

2) Break-in using whatever oil you plan to run long-term.

3) After you've warmed it up and make sure there's no leaks, proper oil pressure, cooling system works, no odd sounds, etc. take it out and drive it like it's got 30K miles on it already. Your rings will be 90% run-in by the time the engine has warmed up. No need to baby it, no need to "seat the rings", just drive it like you're going to drive it on a daily basis.

4) Perform the first OC at 500 miles, and regular OCI afterwards. Unless perhaps your motor was built by some inexperienced vo-tech student and not properly hot tanked after machining, changing the oil six times in 500 miles is simply ludicrous.

 

[ragtoplvr]

many cars ship with synthetic oil new. Di-esters can impede break in. Very rare in syn these days.

Gas to liquid syn is same as normal oil.

PAO is a little longer, but they still break in. That is about all you will find on shelves today.

Rod

 

[AirgunSavant]

Originally Posted By: mightymousetech
Originally Posted By: E150GT
If new engines needed special break in oil, I would think the manufacturer would say so or we would have a lot of failures of new cars.


Honda does.

Did you ever think that Honda may be using special break in oils because of an engineering defect that requires
them to do so? Todays Hondas ain't so grand. I have had many and I quit buying them in 2013.

 

[kschachn]

Originally Posted By: AirgunSavant
Did you ever think that Honda may be using special break in oils because of an engineering defect that requires
them to do so? Todays Hondas ain't so grand. I have had many and I quit buying them in 2013.

Did you ever think you have no evidence whatsoever to support such a statement?

Man the useless nonsense being pushed out in this thread is amazing.

 

[userfriendly]

Your lawn mower has the hardest working half quart of oil in any engine and manufactures typically specify SAE 30. After the 1st hour of operation, the used oil looks like metallic paint. I've always drained the factory fill from new car and truck engines shortly after purchase. Looking at the oil glitter in the sun, there is no way I would pour it back into the engine. In short, oil looks different on a dipstick than in an open container in bright light.

 

[Bud]

Originally Posted By: AirgunSavant
Originally Posted By: mightymousetech
Originally Posted By: E150GT
If new engines needed special break in oil, I would think the manufacturer would say so or we would have a lot of failures of new cars.


Honda does.

Did you ever think that Honda may be using special break in oils because of an engineering defect that requires
them to do so? Todays Hondas ain't so grand. I have had many and I quit buying them in 2013.


Yes, that just has to be Honda's reason. Engineering defect in all the engines they produce. Makes sense.

 

[kschachn]

Originally Posted By: Bud
Yes, that just has to be Honda's reason. Engineering defect in all the engines they produce. Makes sense.

And not only that, a specific and ongoing engineering defect that is correctable by using a special break-in oil.

 

[RichardS]

I would think that high anti-wear would slow down the break-in process. I don't think, however, that's entirely bad.

This analogy will surely see me pants and underwear run up the flag pole, but when you want to accurately tear paper in half, you do so slowly and purposefully. Ripping it in half would give you all sorts of edges.

Now obviously the metal in your motor is far more robust, and wearing down against a hard surface, but perhaps a slightly slower grinding down gives you a better mating of surfaces, without possibly changing the face of the harder metal of the 2?

Or I could just be completely nuts.

 

[mightymousetech]

Originally Posted By: AirgunSavant
Originally Posted By: mightymousetech
Originally Posted By: E150GT
If new engines needed special break in oil, I would think the manufacturer would say so or we would have a lot of failures of new cars.


Honda does.

Did you ever think that Honda may be using special break in oils because of an engineering defect that requires
them to do so? Todays Hondas ain't so grand. I have had many and I quit buying them in 2013.


So, they have had an engineering defect since always?

 

[ragtoplvr]

Those engines have an oil filter. No oil filter engines like a 1 and then a 5 hour change. engines with an oil filter get a fresh filter at 5 hours and at 25 hours.

When I used to hot rod engines, we did an early oil and filter change. There was always metal in the oil and the filter. I poured that oil in a 5 gallon can, and let it settle. After a few months I used it in my car and truck. The bottom of the can had some stuff in it. Never had a oil or wear related failure.

Modern synthetic oil is not like old synthetic oil. Modern oils break in correctly, no matter if called syn or not, single grade or multi grade.

Rod

 

[SilverFusion2010]

Get it warmed up before you rag on it

 

[fdcg27]

If the factory engine did nearly 300K, then you can expect maybe 200K out of this rebuild and maybe less.
The rest of this already fifteen year old Civic won't last that long anyway.
Read up a little on these engines and you'll come to realize that they were never intended to be rebuilt. Not much spare metal in the head, the block deck or the bores to machine.
A rebuild will never be as clean as a factory new engine, so a change at maybe 500 miles and another at maybe 1K wouldn't do any harm and might do some good. After that, normal change intervals would be appropriate.
If you'd like to use an HD30, then do so. We're into warm weather now, so that would do no harm.
A good starting point might be to ask what your rebuilder recommends. After all, he's warrantying the engine and he also has a reputation to uphold.

 

[Ducked]

Originally Posted By: Olas
This short (
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Ij7-LyOFlUU


I think I've seen the website he's talking about a long time ago (Motorman?), and I agreed with most of his criticisms.

At best hard break in is an unsupported (or only anecdotally supported) assertion.

BUT while some messages probably can be best delivered by Youtube video, this isn't one of them.

 

[nola000]

Quote:
This short (div>


I came into this with a neutral opinion on the matter of hard vs. soft break-in. After a bunch of reading I deduced that people are generally scared to stray from factory recommendations. Two things.

1. My vehicle is a 2002 with over 280k miles on the odometer and a salvage title. Warranties are of no concern to me.

2. It seems that many auto manufacturers actually DO a hard break-in at the factory just prior to shipment. From the accounts I read, it consist of basically setting the vehicle on the dyno and redlining the [censored] out of it for like 15 minutes. This is a rebuilt, used core going into a used up old vehicle. I have to simulate whatever they did at the factory on the dyno, here on my local streets.

3. Many auto manufacturers actually DO suggest a semi-hard break-in as do camshaft manufacturers.

Dont ask me to cite the sources. I found this information from hours upon hours of reading. Im not going to try to go dig it up now. I didnt really want to get into a debate over break-in procedures I was just curious to hear opinions from people on this site about specific attributes of the "perfect" hard break-in oil for getting a good ring/cylinder wall mate.

 

[nola000]

Quote:
It looks like you are spending more on the break in oil by changing it six times in 500 miles than the rebuild itself.


I calculated with 4qt/change x 6 changes @ $6/quart = $144. No bad at all. Motor was $1400.

Quote:
The first life was 197k,


Actually, it was like 297k.

Quote:
What driving environment are you in (city/highway. traffic, etc)?


Almost 100% interstate/highway.

Quote:
How long can you take for the first 500 miles?


I was going to take a road trip on the local highways to break it in. Maybe a trip down US-90 along the Gulf Coast.

 

[nola000]

Quote:
Detergents won't do anything with metal shavings, it only works on combustion by products.


Ok. So detergents arent going to help wash the cylinder walls down and keep the swarf in suspension for collection by the oil filter?

 

[nola000]

Quote:
Lots of opinions here and it sounds like you've already made up your mind, but I'll share mine anyway.


Not at all. Im here to learn. I just want to hear sound logic and reason or advice born from experience.

Quote:
You're thinking about this too hard. This is an econobox 4-banger, not a top-fuel drag motor.


Im not worried about HP. This is a commuter car for my wife. It needs to be maintenance free, not burn oil, fuel efficient and most importantly, last forever.

Quote:
Unless perhaps your motor was built by some inexperienced vo-tech student and not properly hot tanked after machining


Well, it was rebuilt by JIS in Arlington, TX. They did a chit job from what I see so far. They have all the right equipment but it looks like its a production line and they dont go through proper inspection and spec check of the cores. I just got it on the engine stand and so far it had two of the engine-to-tranny mount bolt holes were stripped out, overspray everywhere, leftover gasket material on the cylinder-to-valve cover mating surface, over torqued valve lash adjustment nuts, I suspect over torqued everything else based on what I checked, some unsettling grinding feel when turning the engine over by hand, out of tolerance rod-to-crank clearance(service limit 0.4mm, measured 0.7mm), etc.

 

[nola000]

Quote:
Or I could just be completely nuts.


Not at all. Good theory.

 

[W3DRK]

Wow that's really disappointing. Considering all that you've discovered so far, if I were in your shoes I'd demand my money back and call LKQ to find a low milage long block from a wreck. With a fresh water pump and timing belt you'd be back on the road in no-time.


Originally Posted By: nola000
Quote:
Lots of opinions here and it sounds like you've already made up your mind, but I'll share mine anyway.


Not at all. Im here to learn. I just want to hear sound logic and reason or advice born from experience.

Quote:
You're thinking about this too hard. This is an econobox 4-banger, not a top-fuel drag motor.


Im not worried about HP. This is a commuter car for my wife. It needs to be maintenance free, not burn oil, fuel efficient and most importantly, last forever.

Quote:
Unless perhaps your motor was built by some inexperienced vo-tech student and not properly hot tanked after machining


Well, it was rebuilt by JIS in Arlington, TX. They did a chit job from what I see so far. They have all the right equipment but it looks like its a production line and they dont go through proper inspection and spec check of the cores. I just got it on the engine stand and so far it had two of the engine-to-tranny mount bolt holes were stripped out, overspray everywhere, leftover gasket material on the cylinder-to-valve cover mating surface, over torqued valve lash adjustment nuts, I suspect over torqued everything else based on what I checked, some unsettling grinding feel when turning the engine over by hand, out of tolerance rod-to-crank clearance(service limit 0.4mm, measured 0.7mm), etc.