Brake pad stopping power! Wagner ThermoQuiet Semi-metallic

Well, @TiGeo, since neither car will ever be on a track, Yellowstuff is great for me. I just want a pad with tons of grip from cold to hot. Like you, I'd definitely use something else on the track.
That's what I was saying I guess - Yellowstuff is a great street pad for those wanting a bit more than the basic pads give. You get a bit more dust but the cold grip is normal which is what you want. Just dropped a set on my son's car. I think folks shy away from them as in the past they were considered a "track" pad but now they are not marketed that way.

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Yes. EBC Red Stuff for the road, Yellow Stuff for mostly road but some track. Blue for track only as won't work well until warmed up.

Been a fan of EBC since first used on Porsche and VW R32 on both regular runs and at the track.
 
I tested the ebc redstuff pads head to head against the Wagners, Porterfield’s R4-s, and Hawks.

The ebc’s and the Porterfield’s had substantially better stopping power. Stopping 60 mph to zero, and 100 mph to zero, Wagners and Hawks took 2-3+ more car lengths to stop than the ebc’s. The Porterfield’s were very close to the ebc red stuff.

No noticeable fade with either the Porterfield or ebc’s

Brakes pads may feel “superior”. But without a head-to-head comparison, it’s just a subjective observation.

Z

I’ve been using the ebc red stuff on many different vehicles for 15+ years, both vintage and contemporary. Currently have them on my 2002 Jaguar XKR. As expected, they are far better than the OEM pads.
 
I'm surprised more folks don't run EBC Yellowstuff for an aggressive street pad compound vs. the typical ceramic street compounds. I've found then to be excellent. Dusty for sure.
I have a set of these both front and rear for myu '19 Impreza Sport but I don't know when I'll need them. Currently, the car has 15k miles on it and I do't drive much so unless something happens, they won't be installed for a while. It's good to know that they work well. Maybe next time I'll get them for my '18 Impreza Sport or my B5 S4. I eventually want to do a BBK for the S but I have a lot of stuff that needs to be fixed before I can ever think about getting bigger rims to support a BBK.

**** kids are putting a damper on fixing that car! ;)
 
Yes. EBC Red Stuff for the road, Yellow Stuff for mostly road but some track. Blue for track only as won't work well until warmed up.

Been a fan of EBC since first used on Porsche and VW R32 on both regular runs and at the track.
I actually think Redstuff are a waste - expensive for just a set of street-only pads. I ran them for a while. Dusty....no realy reason (to me at least) to not just run Yellowstuff. They faded quickly for me in hard/mountain driving but yes, for average run-of-the-mill street use, they are ok.
 
I tested the ebc redstuff pads head to head against the Wagners, Porterfield’s R4-s, and Hawks.

The ebc’s and the Porterfield’s had substantially better stopping power. Stopping 60 mph to zero, and 100 mph to zero, Wagners and Hawks took 2-3+ more car lengths to stop than the ebc’s. The Porterfield’s were very close to the ebc red stuff.

No noticeable fade with either the Porterfield or ebc’s

Brakes pads may feel “superior”. But without a head-to-head comparison, it’s just a subjective observation.

Z

I’ve been using the ebc red stuff on many different vehicles for 15+ years, both vintage and contemporary. Currently have them on my 2002 Jaguar XKR. As expected, they are far better than the OEM pads.
Your stopping distance to zero should have all to do with tires, not pads. If you can activate ABS, it will be the same (or should be)....at least on the first stop! Here some data...only real difference was from running summer tires vs. UHP all seasons.

AS_summer_brake.JPG
 
Your stopping distance to zero should have all to do with tires, not pads. If you can activate ABS, it will be the same (or should be)....at least on the first stop! Here some data...only real difference was from running summer tires vs. UHP all seasons.

View attachment 133924

No ABS on two of three cars tested. Expert driver with many year racing experience. Tires were the same set of Avon CR6ZZ’s, a DOT approved for street use racing tire.

Results were repeatable across all vehicles.

Given the nature of BITOG forums, I expect a lot nit-picking. Just posting my own anecdotal experiences, not a scientific lab. But did get results which help to point out the deficiencies in some brake pads. YMMV.

Z
 
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No ABS on two of three cars tested. Expert driver with many year racing experience. Tires were the same set of Avon CR6ZZ’s, a DOT approved for street use racing tire.

Results were repeatable across all vehicles.

Given the nature of BITOG forums, I expect a lot nit-picking. Just posting my own anecdotal experiences, not a scientific lab. But did get results which help to point out the deficiencies in some brake pads. YMMV.

Z
BITOG and nit-picking go together like peas and carrots!

Yes, without ABS quite a bit different than my testing with ABS...and a lot of driver influence then.
 
BITOG and nit-picking go together like peas and carrots!

Yes, without ABS quite a bit different than my testing with ABS...and a lot of driver influence then.

Driver didn’t know which set of pads were installed.

An expert driver who can produce identical lap times year after year is good enough (for my purposes) to be considered a neutral factor.

Z
 
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Brakes pads may feel “superior”. But without a head-to-head comparison, it’s just a subjective observation.


I’ve been using the ebc red stuff on many different vehicles for 15+ years, both vintage and contemporary. Currently have them on my 2002 Jaguar XKR. As expected, they are far better than the OEM pads.
Redstuff and I don't get along, pedal pressure is too high. Yellowstuff, I like. But for my car the GG rated Wagners were $100 cheaper per axle.

I'm an experienced driver/racer (no not just old,,) and I do know what I like with regard to pads (quality semi-metallic pads are always good), my very fav is the Carbotech XP8 on the street (which would be HH rated). The Ceramic pads on the X-Type (which is really a Ford Contour/Mondeo) is a poor combo, due to insufficient rotor swept area. Ceramics could not engage ABS at speed. No matter what, threshold braking was impossible, even with 200 pounds of pedal pressure.

The stopping power of the Wagners is well above the stock pads, or the others I've tried. I don't claim they are better than boutique pads. I do claim they are a superb choice when compared to the unreal quantity of Chinese junk out there. Just put 1500 mile on them today, love 'em.
 
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After going through a good number of sub-standard brake pads for my Jaguar, I finally found a quality set of "non race" pads with high friction ratings that actually perform. The Wagner ThermoQuiet Semi-Metallic pads with the "Wagner OE25™ zero-copper friction formulation". They are accurately G-G friction rated. I've got to say, they are exactly what I was looking for. I tried Centric Ceramic pads, and a few other brands of Ceramic. In an emergency, I also purchased some "duralast" semi-metallics from AutoZone that were FF rated. None were able to slow the car well or even engage the ABS at speed, as they did not produce adequate friction. These Wagner pads flat out ROCK. They bite smoothly, fast and hard, with very modest pedal pressure, and are fantastic hauling the car down from high speed. In an age of ubiquitous, underperforming Chinese brake pads with fancy names, these Wagner's stand apart as a quality product.

If you are looking for a commercially available brake pad with the highest friction levels, these make a good choice. I'll put them on my F150's next.

I2C5oME.jpg


View attachment 133773
couple the pads with high carbon rotors. The ultimate in stopping power
 
Redstuff and I don't get along, pedal pressure is too high. Yellowstuff, I like. But for my car the GG rated Wagners were $100 cheaper per axle.

I'm an experienced driver/racer (no not just old,,) and I do know what I like with regard to pads (quality semi-metallic pads are always good), my very fav is the Carbotech XP8 on the street (which would be HH rated). The Ceramic pads on the X-Type (which is really a Ford Contour/Mondeo) is a poor combo, due to insufficient rotor swept area. Ceramics could not engage ABS at speed. No matter what, threshold braking was impossible, even with 200 pounds of pedal pressure.

The stopping power of the Wagners is well above the stock pads, or the others I've tried. I don't claim they are better than boutique pads. I do claim they are a superb choice when compared to the unreal quantity of Chinese junk out there. Just put 1500 mile on them today, love 'em.
Those XP8s are probably a good aggressive street pad - they recommended that to me if I wanted a do-it-all pad that would be fine to drive on the street.
 
That's what I was saying I guess - Yellowstuff is a great street pad for those wanting a bit more than the basic pads give. You get a bit more dust but the cold grip is normal which is what you want. Just dropped a set on my son's car. I think folks shy away from them as in the past they were considered a "track" pad but now they are not marketed that way.

View attachment 133909

View attachment 133908
If you note in the picture, the yellowstuff compound got reformulated for 2021 to be an aggressive street pad, instead of more of a track pad.

and I also liked the Redstuff pads on my old Passat. Yeah, it did dust just a bit, only because of the slotted rotors I had, continually scraping at the pad, nothing that wasn't manageable with the dust though.
 
If you note in the picture, the yellowstuff compound got reformulated for 2021 to be an aggressive street pad, instead of more of a track pad.

and I also liked the Redstuff pads on my old Passat. Yeah, it did dust just a bit, only because of the slotted rotors I had, continually scraping at the pad, nothing that wasn't manageable with the dust though.
That was my issue I think with the reds.....slotted rotors.
 
Those Wagners are made by Ferodo in the UK.

My experience with Wagner TQs is hit and miss. They worked fine on a Subaru, great on an Explorer but meh when I tried them on a Toyota. The “shimmed” ones using a conventional shim that’s glued on seem to stay quiet. The ones using their “molded” insulator can get noisy, and eats into the actual friction. Wagner says install IMI TQs “dry” but when they get noisy, out comes the brake quiet.
 
Those Wagners are made by Ferodo in the UK.

My experience with Wagner TQs is hit and miss. They worked fine on a Subaru, great on an Explorer but meh when I tried them on a Toyota. The “shimmed” ones using a conventional shim that’s glued on seem to stay quiet. The ones using their “molded” insulator can get noisy, and eats into the actual friction. Wagner says install IMI TQs “dry” but when they get noisy, out comes the brake quiet.
Just a quick note, there are ceramic and semi metallic versions of the TQ pads. By the way, they are still epic good. 😎
 
Just a quick note, there are ceramic and semi metallic versions of the TQ pads. By the way, they are still epic good. 😎
Yep - the ones on the Subie were ceramic, the Ford ones were semi-metallic. The Toyota ones were ceramic but always had a clunk when the car was backing out and started to make noise when the insulator was cut away. But they were probably the better of the non-OE/OE supplier(Akebono/Advics) pads I used. The Centric Posi-Stop 105s were fine warm but were dangerously grabby when it was wet and left a bit to be desired when cold.
 
After going through a good number of sub-standard brake pads for my Jaguar, I finally found a quality set of "non race" pads with high friction ratings that actually perform. The Wagner ThermoQuiet Semi-Metallic pads with the "Wagner OE25™ zero-copper friction formulation". They are accurately G-G friction rated. I've got to say, they are exactly what I was looking for. I tried Centric Ceramic pads, and a few other brands of Ceramic. In an emergency, I also purchased some "duralast" semi-metallics from AutoZone that were FF rated. None were able to slow the car well or even engage the ABS at speed, as they did not produce adequate friction. These Wagner pads flat out ROCK. They bite smoothly, fast and hard, with very modest pedal pressure, and are fantastic hauling the car down from high speed. In an age of ubiquitous, underperforming Chinese brake pads with fancy names, these Wagner's stand apart as a quality product.

If you are looking for a commercially available brake pad with the highest friction levels, these make a good choice. I'll put them on my F150's next.

I2C5oME.jpg


View attachment 133773
I used them on my car, the only complaint I had was the backing shim came off on one of the pads and made a scratching noise. I removed the pad, cleaned the back and JB weld the shim in place. All good now.
 
I've started calling the Thermo Quiets "Thermo Squeals" after putting a set on my wife's Expedition. Nothing I tried would make them stop squealing during slow speed, light pressure braking.
 
That was my issue I think with the reds.....slotted rotors.

On my ‘02 Jaguar XKR the front rotors are slotted and the rears solid. I got 53,000+ miles from my last set of redstuff pads. Dust was not noticeable.

The pads had about 3mm of friction material left on them, so not 100% worn out, but well into my no-confidence zone, so out they went.

I’m tempted to try the new(er) formulation of the yellowstuff pads next time around. But don’t want to fix something that isn’t broken.

Z
 
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