Bought my girlfriend a Mossberg.

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Well we all have our point of view, and I will agree that 00 or similar is going to have more penetrating ability, IF the perp is wearing a winter coat with a sweat shirt. But if you were loaded with bird shot a shot to the face or even a hand would still receive a heck of a lot of damage. And I seriously doubt that there is anyone here who would stand up and take a load of bird shot low brass from a 12 gauge at 50 or 60 feet, for any amount of money. And if there is, they should seek some help.

The number 4 shot sounds like something in the middle that hopefully will stop short of going through a neighbors trailer, yet still take out any intruder regardless of what their drug of choice is.

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One thing we have not touched base on here is what a 12 gauge, or for that mater any decent gun is going to do to her ear drums if it is ever fired inside of a trailer. Once that hearing is damaged there is no bringing it back.

Some kind of ear protection sitting on top of that shotgun so it gets used if there is time for it, preferable something well designed to allow the wearer to hear conversation (since they may be dropping the hammer on someones life, and if audio would help them determine that the intruder was someone they know who should not be shot, they would not want hearing protection to block the ability to hear conversation,) but still have their hearing protected would be a great idea.

And also have some kind of additional hearing protection for each additional person who may legitimately in that trailer. Heck even cheap Harbor freight plastic ear muff type would be way better than no hearing protection at all. And any decent gun store is probably going to have some really good hearing protection, though it will cost more.
 
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BTW, full choke vs wide open choke is also going to have a great effect on how leathal a pattern will be when a high number (small pellets) shot is used at a distance.
 
If I was to pick a trailer park gun, I think I would go for a Glock in 9mm if I can get it with a high capacity magazine.

It would be in one of those plastic holsters where someone else can't take the gun off of you.

I would have 4 spare magazines on my belt, all loaded with Winchester hollow point ammo.

I'd check if there is a fleeing felon rule in the State I lived in, and if he was driving away I'd sail so many rounds into his car if it didn't snag him, the cops would be able to I.D. the vehicle from the bullet holes from Space.
 
I've been following this and here are a couple of points:

Shotgun is difficult to wield in a tight space. Trailer might be tight.

Hearing loss is a real concern, but that's going to be true with any weapon in a tight space.

To be an effective defense weapon, it has to have an effect on the assailant's ability to continue the attack. That requires that the projectiles impact vital organs.

That requires both effective projectiles, and as folks have pointed out, effective aim.

The use of any projectile that limits penetration reduces the effectiveness of the weapon as a defensive tool. Drywall is a lot easier to penetrate than muscle and/or winter clothing. Look, birdshot is optimized for use on 10 lb birds. Buckshot is optimized for use on 100 - 300 lb mammals.

Which of those two categories most resembles her potential assailant? Use of ammunition that is designed for a different purpose than on people will diminish the effectiveness of the weapon. Penetration of drywall isn't nearly as much of a concern as the weapon working. Penetration isn't a concern if the shots are placed in the assailant instead of the wall.

Look at it this way. Federal Officers on airplanes carry either .357 SIG or .40 S&W jacketed hollow points. They'll penetrate. They pose a risk to innocent passengers, and some degree of risk to the airplane itself, but in close quarters combat, where lives are at stake, round effectives is the most important criterion. Period. So, those officers work on precise shot placement, yielding both better effectiveness against bad guys and better safety.

She needs to practice, practice, and practice. Regardless of what weapon she uses, placement of that projectile matters just as much as the effectiveness.

I would recommend a .357 revolver for a 1st gun and for your girlfriend. No manual of arms (slide, reload, clearing malfunctions), just aim and pull. It's maneuverable in a tight space. It can be loaded with .38 SPL target ammo to build that proficiency with lower recoil (and cheaper) loads.

But if she keeps the shotgun, don't compromise the effectiveness of the weapon by using the wrong ammo out of concern for a stray shot.

Worry about her ability to protect herself. That's why you bought her the weapon in the first place.
 
Originally Posted By: Chris142
I went digging through my arsenal. I have plenty of 00 and I found some #4 too


It all depends ... if she ever turns the gun on you .... if you want it to be a clean kill or not hurt too bad.
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PB
 
I've shot all types of buckshot. In my experience the #4 buckshot (Federal Power-shok) has the most recoil, followed by #1 buck and then #00 buckshot. Yes, Federal #4 buck has more recoil than Federal #00 buck.

Stick with a 2 3/4" shell. I'm not recoil sensitive in the least and the Remington and Federal 00 buck are both very manageable for me. I can shoot buck all day and not have a problem. Some are more recoil sensitive than others. If you shoulder the gun properly it isn't a big issue.

#1, #0 or #00 buck is what you want (in that order). 16 pellet #1 buckshot is most effective followed by 12 pellet #0 and 9 pellet #00. 27 pellet #4 buck isn't reliable enough in the penetration department against a threat. Consider a buckshot that is low recoil for your GF to handle. I myself use standard 9 pellet Remington Express 00. I've read the Remington Managed-Recoil buckshot loads have recoil similar to birdshot so I'd look for something along those lines. Federal also makes tactical loads with low recoil. For Winchester you will look for there "Ranger" low-recoil ammo. Keep in mind buckshot loads will go through 7-9 layers of 5/8" drywall before stopping.

Buy a few different boxes and pattern the loads and note recoils. Once you determine what shells you like buy in bulk. I keep a case of 250 rounds of 00buck, 250 rounds of slugs and 250 rounds of birdshot at home at all times. Some for hunting if I need to live off the land and some for HD.

Keep the gun loaded. An unloaded gun is a paperweight. Pray you never have to use it.

Best of luck.

Oh yeah, and teach her to rack the fore-end back HARD. You cannot rack pump action shotguns too hard. They will not break and were meant to be racked hard. This should eliminate feeding problems. With practice you can learn to manipulate the fore-end forward during recoil for faster follow-up shots.

For a HD shotgun a mounted light is a must. Also get a stock shell-holder. Keep a few slugs in the shell-holder if the need arises for an accurate or long-distance shot. I prefer the Federal Tactical low-recoil slugs and Remington sluggers. Practice until she can get consistent bulls-eyes at 50 yards at the range.
 
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Originally Posted By: Falken
If I was to pick a trailer park gun, I think I would go for a Glock in 9mm if I can get it with a high capacity magazine.

It would be in one of those plastic holsters where someone else can't take the gun off of you.

I would have 4 spare magazines on my belt, all loaded with Winchester hollow point ammo.

I'd check if there is a fleeing felon rule in the State I lived in, and if he was driving away I'd sail so many rounds into his car if it didn't snag him, the cops would be able to I.D. the vehicle from the bullet holes from Space.


Why don't you stop posting about stuff you clearly know zilch about?

Really?? Shooting at a fleeing person? "Sailing so many rounds into his car?" Unfreaking believable!! That is illegal in all 50 states plus Canada. Not to mention just a little unethical to try and kill a person that is attempting to flee away from you.
 
Bubbatime, I stated I'd check the laws in my jurisdiction.

Wikipedia:

At Common law, the Fleeing Felon Rule permits the use of force, including deadly force, against an individual who is suspected of a felony and is in clear flight.[citation needed] Force may be used by the victim, bystanders, or police officers.[citation needed] In some jurisprudence failure to use such force was a misdemeanor which could result in a fine or imprisonment.[citation needed] According to David Caplan "Immediate stopping of the fleeing felon, whether actually or presumably dangerous, was deemed absolutely necessary for the security of the people in a free state, and for maintaining the "public security." ... "[citation needed] Indeed, it has been said that the social policy of the common law in this matter was not only to threaten dangerous felons and hence deter them, but was also to induce them to "surrender peaceably" if they dared commit inherently dangerous felonies, rather than allow them to "escape trial for their crimes." [1]
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If you are a criminal such as a murderer, and you run away, don't think that because you are fleeing you are safe from being shot.

But "Common Law" may not apply across the board in North America. Judges have shown leniency in clear cut cases of greater good.

I hope I didn't rile up your gentile nature, that wasn't my intent Bubba.
 
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Using Wikipedia at your trial for self defense...not the best idea. We flunk students for using it to write papers at school, I don't think a judge or jury would take you very seriously for using it.

If the person shot at you and then ran away, they have already put your life in danger. If they are running away with your car stereo..you are going to go to trial.
 
Shooting at a fleeing felon is thin ice for a police officer, even thinner for a citizen.

Simply, to justify the use of lethal force, a lethal threat must be present (the rule of proportionality). A threat must have ability, opportunity, and intent...and the intent is gone once an assailant turns tail and runs.

A fleeing felon could be construed as a threat to the public, but that's an argument that will be ripped apart in court. How did you determine that individual's guilt? Their future intent? How would you know they posed a future threat? Are we dealing with "pre-crime" here?

Clearly, the fleeing felon no longer poses a threat to our OP's girlfriend, and she would be very, very poorly advised to shoot at him in flight.
 
Originally Posted By: Astro14
Shooting at a fleeing felon is thin ice for a police officer, even thinner for a citizen.


Absolutely correct. Shooting at fleeing felons died out about 50 years ago. Today, there is no justifiable reason to shoot at a fleeing felon that is attempting to escape and is not a threat to you or others.

While it is still technically on the books in many jurisdictions, you can bring it up at your trial as a possible defense if you would like. I'd rather not sit in jail for 2-3 years awaiting trial because some archaic law that was never removed from the books said that I could shoot at a fleeing felon.
 
If they pose a threat by escaping, use your judgement.

If a guy hacks up a woman in the street then runs away, and you are holding a shotgun, use your judgement.

This law is still on the books, sorry to say.

I don't loose sleep over murderers that get shot in the back.

But, there are many people on this site that are kinder and more understanding than I will ever be.

Bubba, just don't commit a crime in Texas then try to run away.

You may find out the hard way that what I am saying still holds true today...

Don't shoot the messenger is all I am trying to say, that is still illegal everywhere.
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Shooting a fleeing active mass shooter is one thing, shooting a guy who broke into your trailer and ran off with your flat screen is another.


And yes in the old days cops could plug you for just running, I met an old timer that mentioned he plugged a guy with his service 38 in the leg for running. But at that same time you had to sit in the back of the bus in many cities if you were black. So its a different America.
 
Yes, now I fully agree with your last post.

Except, in Texas, you can die running off with a flat screen.

Just hope the guy you stole the TV from doesn't have a gun and his favorite show isn't starting in 15 minutes.

And, no, he won't go to jail.

But this is Texas I am talking about.

A man shot a hooker in Texas recently because she didn't deliver services he paid for and tried to walk out with his cash.

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/crime/jilted-john-acquitted-texas-prostitute-death-article-1.1365975

Again, sorry about using internet references.
 
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That's not a typical verdict and certainly NOTHING I'd stake my future freedom, health and well being on.
 
Originally Posted By: Falken
If they pose a threat by escaping, use your judgement.

If a guy hacks up a woman in the street then runs away, and you are holding a shotgun, use your judgement.

This law is still on the books, sorry to say.

I don't loose sleep over murderers that get shot in the back.

But, there are many people on this site that are kinder and more understanding than I will ever be.

Bubba, just don't commit a crime in Texas then try to run away.

You may find out the hard way that what I am saying still holds true today...

Don't shoot the messenger is all I am trying to say, that is still illegal everywhere.
smile.gif



I'm a Deputy Sheriff with 9 years on the force. Shooting at fleeing felons is a bad idea, unless you like losing 2-3 years of your life in jail awaiting trial. Leave the Rambo stuff to the real Rambo's.

George Zimmerman had the most cut and dry case of self defense in Florida (head getting bashed into concrete, broken nose) and the guy practically lost everything due to political pressure and an overzealous prosecutor. Trials happen and they ruin lives. Yeah you might beat the charge, but was it all really worth it? And yes, Texas does things differently. We all know that.
 
In Texas, you can use deadly force to protect property. As far as I know, it's the only state you can do that. In Ohio, where I live, If you shoot someone in the back, they better be an intruder in your house.
 
Bubbatime, now your posts are finally starting to come around.

I see we are in full agreement now.

People would just have to weigh, for themselves, if letting a dangerous felon get away is what they are personally willing to do.

In Canada a clear cut case wouldn't even make it to trial, but I understand in the States with Civil Suits and such...
 
Ten days !! Tell them you are MAD right now.
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Originally Posted By: Chris142


So we had to do the California 10 day waiting period.
 
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