Older BMW's are a lot more "robust" than newer ones... tolerant to neglect and able to keep running with less maintenance. That's probably true among all automakers, but it seems especially noticeable with BMW.
BMX X5 4.4 overheated
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The 4.4 is noted for it's valley pan problems. BMW-philes often disagree but it's well documented.
I wouldn't be suprised if changing the water pump, belt, and hose just led to finding out that there are other problems. Once the system can hold pressure, any weak points should be found.
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BMWs don't tolerate neglect very well at all. Maintaining them properly is the key
Not in their cooling systems anyway. They seem to tolerate neglect in other areas fairly well. (ie: the 60,000 mile/ no oil change sludge monster that's photos have graced every car site on the web)
I wouldn't be suprised if changing the water pump, belt, and hose just led to finding out that there are other problems. Once the system can hold pressure, any weak points should be found.
Quote:
BMWs don't tolerate neglect very well at all. Maintaining them properly is the key
Not in their cooling systems anyway. They seem to tolerate neglect in other areas fairly well. (ie: the 60,000 mile/ no oil change sludge monster that's photos have graced every car site on the web)
Originally Posted By: Craig in Canada
IMO, I think avoiding the composite/plastic impellers is a good call. I'm not sure I care whether it's welded aluminum or cast iron though.
Funny, I know Toyota uses a plastic impeller on the Lexus V8s since 1989 and the one I've seen off my car with 120K on it - the 2nd one the car's had was still in serviceable condition.
Also, BMW's G-48 coolant contains 2-EHA in it - the same organic acid that makes Dex-Cool the corrosive [censored] it is...
IMO, I think avoiding the composite/plastic impellers is a good call. I'm not sure I care whether it's welded aluminum or cast iron though.
Funny, I know Toyota uses a plastic impeller on the Lexus V8s since 1989 and the one I've seen off my car with 120K on it - the 2nd one the car's had was still in serviceable condition.
Also, BMW's G-48 coolant contains 2-EHA in it - the same organic acid that makes Dex-Cool the corrosive [censored] it is...
Originally Posted By: Spazdog
The 4.4 is noted for it's valley pan problems. BMW-philes often disagree but it's well documented.
No one I've ever come in contact with denies it. It's a well known problem to watch out for. When it boils down to it, though, it's just a leak and not an explosive stranding incident. It certainly shouldn't be cause for alarm and isn't something even worth "denying" as a BMW-phile. I'm not sure why it's being presented as some kind of secret scandal being revealed... Issues that can strand you are far more concerning.
If you find you have a coolant leak showing at the rear of the engine, you might need to replace the valley pan gasket. You need to set aside an afternoon to do it DIY. If you just show up at a BMW dealer with your credit card it could cost you - just like with anything else.
The 4.4 is noted for it's valley pan problems. BMW-philes often disagree but it's well documented.
No one I've ever come in contact with denies it. It's a well known problem to watch out for. When it boils down to it, though, it's just a leak and not an explosive stranding incident. It certainly shouldn't be cause for alarm and isn't something even worth "denying" as a BMW-phile. I'm not sure why it's being presented as some kind of secret scandal being revealed... Issues that can strand you are far more concerning.
If you find you have a coolant leak showing at the rear of the engine, you might need to replace the valley pan gasket. You need to set aside an afternoon to do it DIY. If you just show up at a BMW dealer with your credit card it could cost you - just like with anything else.
How firm is the estimate given? I am suspecting the usual ploy where the shop will fix the obvious problem before ascertaining if something really bad is lurking underneath. If the customer did not specifically asked, these guys would feign innocence. Once she has paid $1500, she might be told later that she now needs another $3000 in repairs.
This is how collision industry works too. The initial estimate is low balled and once the work starts, all the hidden damage starts piling up.
- Vikas
This is how collision industry works too. The initial estimate is low balled and once the work starts, all the hidden damage starts piling up.
- Vikas
I did get more information over the weekend. Apparently, it's the wife's fault because the water pump HAS been leaking for a while now. Apparently, the instruction from the husband is to put water in it daily. He re-enlists soon, and they were going to use re-enlistment cash to pay for the repairs. I couldn't get much information out of him or her, but I'm guessing she either ran it out of coolant, catastrophically overheating the engine, or perhaps more likely, this problem has been going on for so long, the coolant washed the WP bearing dry and it seized, taking out the aforementioned belt that needs to be replaced.
I don't know where they're having it fixed.
I don't know where they're having it fixed.
Originally Posted By: Hokiefyd
I did get more information over the weekend. Apparently, it's the wife's fault because the water pump HAS been leaking for a while now. Apparently, the instruction from the husband is to put water in it daily. He re-enlists soon, and they were going to use re-enlistment cash to pay for the repairs. I couldn't get much information out of him or her, but I'm guessing she either ran it out of coolant, catastrophically overheating the engine, or perhaps more likely, this problem has been going on for so long, the coolant washed the WP bearing dry and it seized, taking out the aforementioned belt that needs to be replaced.
I don't know where they're having it fixed.
From a BMW perspective, if the bearing on the wpump is visibly leaking, that's an URGENT sign of repair - run don't walk to get that fixed. It's not an early warning, you're steps from death so to speak.
There was probably play in the bearing before it started leaking. The main clutch fan bolts to the water pump and it can start oscillating and wobbling around in the engine bay despite belt tension. One torquey redline run onto a highway and the plastic fan can contact the plastic fan shroud and things go downhill quickly with shrapnel damage from the broken, now unbalanced fan flying around up front.
When she says "it's my fault", maybe she just forgot to top up the water and it's not like she drove it until it seized or anything like that. Again, it might not be so bad.
A w-pump job on an M62 isn't particularly difficult or expensive (unless you just walk into the dealer with your credit card they'll make it seem like a big deal).
I did get more information over the weekend. Apparently, it's the wife's fault because the water pump HAS been leaking for a while now. Apparently, the instruction from the husband is to put water in it daily. He re-enlists soon, and they were going to use re-enlistment cash to pay for the repairs. I couldn't get much information out of him or her, but I'm guessing she either ran it out of coolant, catastrophically overheating the engine, or perhaps more likely, this problem has been going on for so long, the coolant washed the WP bearing dry and it seized, taking out the aforementioned belt that needs to be replaced.
I don't know where they're having it fixed.
From a BMW perspective, if the bearing on the wpump is visibly leaking, that's an URGENT sign of repair - run don't walk to get that fixed. It's not an early warning, you're steps from death so to speak.
There was probably play in the bearing before it started leaking. The main clutch fan bolts to the water pump and it can start oscillating and wobbling around in the engine bay despite belt tension. One torquey redline run onto a highway and the plastic fan can contact the plastic fan shroud and things go downhill quickly with shrapnel damage from the broken, now unbalanced fan flying around up front.
When she says "it's my fault", maybe she just forgot to top up the water and it's not like she drove it until it seized or anything like that. Again, it might not be so bad.
A w-pump job on an M62 isn't particularly difficult or expensive (unless you just walk into the dealer with your credit card they'll make it seem like a big deal).
Originally Posted By: Hokiefyd
I did get more information over the weekend. Apparently, it's the wife's fault because the water pump HAS been leaking for a while now. Apparently, the instruction from the husband is to put water in it daily. He re-enlists soon, and they were going to use re-enlistment cash to pay for the repairs. I couldn't get much information out of him or her, but I'm guessing she either ran it out of coolant, catastrophically overheating the engine, or perhaps more likely, this problem has been going on for so long, the coolant washed the WP bearing dry and it seized, taking out the aforementioned belt that needs to be replaced.
Sounds like this vehicle is on the edge of what they can afford. It will punish them further.
I did get more information over the weekend. Apparently, it's the wife's fault because the water pump HAS been leaking for a while now. Apparently, the instruction from the husband is to put water in it daily. He re-enlists soon, and they were going to use re-enlistment cash to pay for the repairs. I couldn't get much information out of him or her, but I'm guessing she either ran it out of coolant, catastrophically overheating the engine, or perhaps more likely, this problem has been going on for so long, the coolant washed the WP bearing dry and it seized, taking out the aforementioned belt that needs to be replaced.
Sounds like this vehicle is on the edge of what they can afford. It will punish them further.
The husband swears by European cars, and won't own anything American or Japanese. I understand his desire, but not to the point of becoming car-poor and not maintaining what you have. This vehicle completely ate a pair of new Bridgestone tires in about 3 months. I was at their house mowing the yard one day last spring when the husband first deployed and mentioned the two front tires. She said she just put them on in January. I said "~this~ January??" They were worn bald. The car was badly out of line. So it has a history of minimal maintenance. Their other vehicle (~only~ vehicle at this point) is an old Volvo 240 wagon.
My wife said she'd be awfully mad at me if I knew there was a problem with her car, made her add water to it every day, then got mad at her when it blew up.
These aren't really the kind of people whose lives you pry into, so I don't know if the $1,500 includes just the pump, belt, and hose, but it's probably all the info I'll get on it. Thanks to you all, though, I learned quite a bit from it. I didn't know the particulars of these cooling systems until now.
My wife said she'd be awfully mad at me if I knew there was a problem with her car, made her add water to it every day, then got mad at her when it blew up.
These aren't really the kind of people whose lives you pry into, so I don't know if the $1,500 includes just the pump, belt, and hose, but it's probably all the info I'll get on it. Thanks to you all, though, I learned quite a bit from it. I didn't know the particulars of these cooling systems until now.
Originally Posted By: Hokiefyd
This vehicle completely ate a pair of new Bridgestone tires in about 3 months.
...
My wife said she'd be awfully mad at me if I knew there was a problem with her car, made her add water to it every day, then got mad at her when it blew up.
It sounds like hubby doesn't understand "maintenance". He ground down a set of tires likely because he has never had a proper alignment, or because he has bushings or ball joints that are shot and he hasn't serviced them. It's a similar situation as the $1500+ repair bill because an $80 water pump wasn't replaced.
As you say, different people, different situations, personal finances, don't want to pry etc.... but from the outside there seems to be some "penny wise, pound foolish" at play.
Ignoring some inexpensive problems often leads to expensive problems down the road. I don't think this is brand exclusive.
This vehicle completely ate a pair of new Bridgestone tires in about 3 months.
...
My wife said she'd be awfully mad at me if I knew there was a problem with her car, made her add water to it every day, then got mad at her when it blew up.
It sounds like hubby doesn't understand "maintenance". He ground down a set of tires likely because he has never had a proper alignment, or because he has bushings or ball joints that are shot and he hasn't serviced them. It's a similar situation as the $1500+ repair bill because an $80 water pump wasn't replaced.
As you say, different people, different situations, personal finances, don't want to pry etc.... but from the outside there seems to be some "penny wise, pound foolish" at play.
Ignoring some inexpensive problems often leads to expensive problems down the road. I don't think this is brand exclusive.
Originally Posted By: Hokiefyd
A friend of my wife's drives an X5 4.4 of an unknown-to-me model year. Probably 2003 vintage. My wife told me today that her friend overheated it, and it's in the shop now. Diagnosis not yet completed. She said her friend admitted that it was "her fault". I said that she may have compounded a problem by continuing to drive with the needle in the red, but there had to have been a failure on the vehicle's part for it to have happened in the first place.
Is there any precedent for this? I know NOTHING about BMWs. Is an overheated engine in these usually traced to one problem, like a failed head gasket? I figure that the coolant fans or relay likely failed, which started the whole scene. I'm interested to find out the diagnosis. I hope she doesn't have to have the heads milled. I don't know how badly she overheated it. It did have to get towed to the shop, so it was disabled somewhere.
BMW radiators are made of metal and plastic consequently they are prone to developing leaks over ~60k miles. I would also suspect that the owner has never checked the coolant level.
There's an off chance that it's the water pump but not likely with that model year.
A friend of my wife's drives an X5 4.4 of an unknown-to-me model year. Probably 2003 vintage. My wife told me today that her friend overheated it, and it's in the shop now. Diagnosis not yet completed. She said her friend admitted that it was "her fault". I said that she may have compounded a problem by continuing to drive with the needle in the red, but there had to have been a failure on the vehicle's part for it to have happened in the first place.
Is there any precedent for this? I know NOTHING about BMWs. Is an overheated engine in these usually traced to one problem, like a failed head gasket? I figure that the coolant fans or relay likely failed, which started the whole scene. I'm interested to find out the diagnosis. I hope she doesn't have to have the heads milled. I don't know how badly she overheated it. It did have to get towed to the shop, so it was disabled somewhere.
BMW radiators are made of metal and plastic consequently they are prone to developing leaks over ~60k miles. I would also suspect that the owner has never checked the coolant level.
There's an off chance that it's the water pump but not likely with that model year.
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Don't pretty much all cars come with metal/plastic radiators now?
yep, nothing special about that.
A quick perusal of the Net shows a few other folks seem to have some issues with BMW's, and not just their cooling systems.
A quick perusal of the Net shows a few other folks seem to have some issues with BMW's, and not just their cooling systems.
Originally Posted By: SteveSRT8
A quick perusal of the Net shows a few other folks seem to have some issues with BMW's, and not just their cooling systems.
A quick perusal of the Net also shows a few folks who think the earth is flat.
What's your point?
A quick perusal of the Net shows a few other folks seem to have some issues with BMW's, and not just their cooling systems.
A quick perusal of the Net also shows a few folks who think the earth is flat.
very simply that having plastic end caps simply does not guarantee failures at 60k miles!
Get it now? Or do we all launch into frenzied defense of our BMW's?
Get it now? Or do we all launch into frenzied defense of our BMW's?
I'm not defending BMW. I'm questioning your criticism and the methods on which it is based.
Now, if all you want to say is that plastic components in the cooling system do not necessarily lead to early failures, I will agree wholeheartedly.
Now, if all you want to say is that plastic components in the cooling system do not necessarily lead to early failures, I will agree wholeheartedly.
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