BMX X5 4.4 overheated

[Jim 5]

Originally Posted By: antonmnster
BMWs wouldn't have the expensive reputation they do if people shopped around. I replaced my m54's h2o pump, expansion bottle, and some hoses last year for about $200 in parts and about two hours of my time. A good independent tech can keep the car affordable.

I'm glad she didn't cook her motor. The lesson is to be proactive with the maintenance of a high-performance motor. The fact that the driver accepts responsibility without blaming the manufacturer speaks very well of her.


That's my experience too. It's probably too late, but it's worth bucking-up for the higher end more expensive water pump with the cast metal pump impeller. Most of the problems with BMW water pumps is the plastic impeller deteriorating and disintigrating inside the cooling system causing multiple reasons for overheating. BMW's have had this problem for years.

BMWs cooling system are not for those who shirk maintenance, but on the whole can be a very reliable car for the responsible car owner.

 

[Jim 5]

I'm guessing her car has around 135k miles if she has normal driving patterns of around 15k per year. To spend 1500 on repairs at this point is fairly predictable for many vehicles on the road today.

 

[SteveSRT8]

[/quote]Fair enough. I'm a big fan of BMW's and that has not been my experience. People are not buying BMWs for low cost transportation. There's an esthetic/performance value people are willing to pay extra for...just like those who buy SRTs. The comparison between SRTs and BMWs is like apples to oranges. They are bought by different kinds of people with different likes/dislikes/preferences - to be sure. I for one share the opinions that the car magazines have consistently putting BMW products in the "best of" class year after year.

At the same time, SRTs are not cheap transportation either.[/quote]

So true. Seems the rear tires wear out quickly! But as an aside, in almost 6 years of drag strip passes, road course track days, and spirited driving my SRT has run flawlessly and required ZERO repairs. I do maintenance, but otherwise the car is superb mechanically.

Note that NONE of my criticisms were directed at the BMW's as far as driving. They truly do make a sweet drivers car. I will be the first to give them their superb dynamics.

But they remain expensive to own and maintain.

 

[MCompact]

Originally Posted By: antonmnster
BMWs wouldn't have the expensive reputation they do if people shopped around. I replaced my m54's h2o pump, expansion bottle, and some hoses last year for about $200 in parts and about two hours of my time. A good independent tech can keep the car affordable.


Exactly. My wife's 2004 X3 has 104K miles on it and the only repair it has needed has been an SRS sensor replaced under warranty. Maintenance, two sets of tires, and one four wheel brake job has averaged out to a cost of five cents per mile. My 124K mile 318ti track rat has needed a thermostat, a set of pads/rotors, a couple of belts and idler pullies, and four sets of track tires. Once again, repair/maintenance/tires average out to five cents per mile.

 

[ARCOgraphite]

Originally Posted By: JOD
Originally Posted By: ARCOgraphite
As an aside, Negative Points for most all manufacturers in running engines too hot - but I guess EPA and CAFE drove them there ...


good god, does everything have to be a vast gub'ment conspiracy?

news flash: most BMW's aren't sold here, and the euro ones run hot, too...

...
Sorry, Just dark, poorly exposed sarcasm on my part. Of course they (cyl/heads) all run hot to improve efficiency - until you coke the oil on the head near the Ex ports or start knocking on one cyl - but that might be a model specific issue. Al heads (v. CI) need to be run hot to not quench the combustion.

 

[Craig in Canada]

Originally Posted By: Hokiefyd
Wow. Flaming aside, I appreciate those who took the time to explain how this particular BMW engine runs. 108*C is 226*F; running at that temperature all the time does seem pretty warm. Most modern vehicles tend to run 180-200*F it seems.


That's right, 108C is your baseline, not a temperature seen "now and then" in extreme conditions. It does get hotter. This, and the pressure created by this temp, contribute to the breakdown of the plastic components over time/mileage and the pressure makes sure that the failure is "spectacular" when it happens. If you're lucky to have an early warning (like the float breaking, or see dried coolant weeping from the rad neck) take heed.

The higher temp also increase efficiency, decreases emissions and a bunch of other things which is why its done in the first place.

 

[Craig in Canada]

Originally Posted By: Hokiefyd
My wife just called and I guess her friend's Facebook page says that it needs a water pump, a hose, and a belt. $1,500. Sounds like she didn't blow it up too bad. I'd be surprised if that engine was right, but I'm sure they pressure-tested the cylinders to measure head gasket integrity.


That's too much money for the listed work even at a dealer IMO. Whether it's OK or not depends on if she shut it down reasonably promptly after it happened. If she's lucky - put a little extra on the collection plate

 

[Craig in Canada]

Originally Posted By: antonmnster
BMWs wouldn't have the expensive reputation they do if people shopped around. I replaced my m54's h2o pump, expansion bottle, and some hoses last year for about $200 in parts and about two hours of my time. A good independent tech can keep the car affordable.


I'd agree with this. That "complete cooling system rebuild" that scared off a potential buyer was probably $500 in parts - tops - to have everything replaced with OEM parts (not cheap aftermarket).

Going to a dealer is definitely a way to pay too much, although sometimes it's unavoidable. As you said, shop around. There's lots of well priced, discount OE-quality parts houses out there.

 

[Craig in Canada]

Originally Posted By: Jim 5

That's my experience too. It's probably too late, but it's worth bucking-up for the higher end more expensive water pump with the cast metal pump impeller. Most of the problems with BMW water pumps is the plastic impeller deteriorating and disintigrating inside the cooling system causing multiple reasons for overheating. BMW's have had this problem for years.

BMWs cooling system are not for those who shirk maintenance, but on the whole can be a very reliable car for the responsible car owner.


The thing is, while I'm not a mechanic by any stretch, I have yet to come across someone who actually HAD a plastic impeller in their wpump. I've read some things online, seen pictures, and heard a lot of people saying "if it's composite it may have started to fail". In the end, anyone that I "know" (in person or online) has found a metal impeller. Go figure.

IMO, I think avoiding the composite/plastic impellers is a good call. I'm not sure I care whether it's welded aluminum or cast iron though. A part of me says that the fewer dissimilar metals in the cooling system the better things are. Get a reputable pump brand, no plastic, and any kind of metal impeller will probably outlast the bearing.

Oh yes - and BMW owners with mechanical clutch fans should pay attention that they're working properly. They provide the main cooling to the system. When those clutches fail those vehicles with electric fans will activate those to pick up the slack but the entire system is put under considerable additional stress.

 

[KST]

Water pump/belt /hose for 1500. that's probably lees than 200 in parts. I never bring it to the dealer unless its a warranty issue.

lots of great indys out there

 

[01rangerxl]

It's certainly not the first BMW to overheat. My roommate trashed the original 2.5L in his 2000 323i after continuing to drive it after the water pump failed. The car ended up getting a replacement engine out of a 330i because of the damage to the original engine. The car has since been junked, but that was due to the air bags deploying after hitting a pothole...that's not unheard of with the 3-Series either.

 

[MCompact]

Originally Posted By: KST
Water pump/belt /hose for 1500. that's probably lees than 200 in parts. I never bring it to the dealer unless its a warranty issue.

lots of great indys out there


The last time I spent over $1000 for a repair was back in 2005; I had put off changing a noisy idler pulley on my wife's 128,000 mile 1997 528i, and my procrastination was rewarded by the pulley bearing disintegrating and taking out both belts and the fan shroud. I decided to let my independent BMW tech handle the repairs. While he had the car we decided to replace the radiator, the water pump, and the remaining idler pulley as a precaution. My tech also found and replaced a bad tie rod and had the car aligned. The total repair cost?
$1161

 

[JHZR2]

Originally Posted By: MCompact
Originally Posted By: antonmnster
BMWs wouldn't have the expensive reputation they do if people shopped around. I replaced my m54's h2o pump, expansion bottle, and some hoses last year for about $200 in parts and about two hours of my time. A good independent tech can keep the car affordable.


Exactly. My wife's 2004 X3 has 104K miles on it and the only repair it has needed has been an SRS sensor replaced under warranty. Maintenance, two sets of tires, and one four wheel brake job has averaged out to a cost of five cents per mile. My 124K mile 318ti track rat has needed a thermostat, a set of pads/rotors, a couple of belts and idler pullies, and four sets of track tires. Once again, repair/maintenance/tires average out to five cents per mile.


Absolutely. Not really more expensive than any other car, IMO.

 

[01rangerxl]

Originally Posted By: JHZR2
Originally Posted By: MCompact
Originally Posted By: antonmnster
BMWs wouldn't have the expensive reputation they do if people shopped around. I replaced my m54's h2o pump, expansion bottle, and some hoses last year for about $200 in parts and about two hours of my time. A good independent tech can keep the car affordable.


Exactly. My wife's 2004 X3 has 104K miles on it and the only repair it has needed has been an SRS sensor replaced under warranty. Maintenance, two sets of tires, and one four wheel brake job has averaged out to a cost of five cents per mile. My 124K mile 318ti track rat has needed a thermostat, a set of pads/rotors, a couple of belts and idler pullies, and four sets of track tires. Once again, repair/maintenance/tires average out to five cents per mile.


Absolutely. Not really more expensive than any other car, IMO.


I think it depends on the BMW.

Back in high school one of my friends bought a badly beaten 1992 E36 325i that had been run in its fair share of SCCA and other events. Despite being a track driven car with over 200K miles, it was awesome. It was incredibly reliable considering what it went through, and when it did break it was relatively cheap and easy to fix with aftermarket parts. It was a pretty basic car though, down to the factory cloth seats.

My roommates' E46 323i was not too distant of a relative from the E36, but it was more difficult and expensive to work on. It also totaled itself due to a pothole.

Simple BMWs are by far the best BMWs, just my opinion.

 

[Quattro Pete]

Originally Posted By: Craig in Canada
I'd agree with this. That "complete cooling system rebuild" that scared off a potential buyer was probably $500 in parts - tops - to have everything replaced with OEM parts (not cheap aftermarket).

My total was $778, from Autohausaz.com - they had the lowest prices that I could find.

Quote:

11281433571 Accessory Belt Tensioner Assembly; AC Compressor Belt $47.48 1 $47.48
11287838797 Accessory Belt Tensioner Assembly; Hydraulic Type $64.55 1 $64.55
11281748131 Accessory Belt Tensioner Pulley/Roller; Alternator and/or AC Belt $15.92 1 $15.92
82141467704 Antifreeze/Coolant; BMW Antifreeze; 1 Gallon $18.95 2 $37.90
17111712788AFT Coolant Bleeder Screw; Brass; At Expansion Tank/Radiator; With O-Ring $3.66 2 $7.32
17111436381 Expansion Tank/Coolant Reservoir $59.83 1 $59.83
11521712058 Fan Blade; 420mm 11 Blade $33.20 1 $33.20
11527505302 Fan Clutch; Screw-On $84.98 1 $84.98
17111712963 Fan Shroud Rivet/Fastener; Plastic Expanding Rivet For 8mm Hole, 15mm Diameter Face $0.36 4 $1.44
11281738605 Idler Pulley/Roller $24.60 1 $24.60
17111436060 Radiator $138.93 1 $138.93
17111742231 Radiator Cap/Expansion Tank Cap; 2.0 Bar $10.82 1 $10.82
11531705224 Radiator Hose; Lower with Temperature Sensor Fitting $26.54 1 $26.54
11531705223 Radiator Hose; Upper with Bleeder Screw Fitting $24.95 1 $24.95
17111427156 Radiator Hose; Vent Hose from Radiator to Expansion Tank $9.94 1 $9.94
5PK0863 Serpentine Belt/Ribbed Drive Belt; AC Compressor $10.37 1 $10.37
6PK1538 Serpentine Belt/Ribbed Drive Belt; Alternator/Power Steering/Water Pump $17.06 1 $17.06
11537509357 Thermostat Seal; Thermostat Housing to Block $5.14 1 $5.14
11537509227 Thermostat; Thermostat Kit with Housing and Seal, 97 Degrees C $60.64 1 $60.64
11511436590URO Water Pump Pulley; 132mm; Black Anodized Aluminum $23.61 1 $23.61
11517527910 Water Pump; Original Type With Composite Impeller $72.78 1 $72.78

Parts Total: $778.00



I paid a guy $300 to put it all on.

 

[Craig in Canada]

Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete

My total was $778, from Autohausaz.com - they had the lowest prices that I could find.


AutohausAZ is a great place to deal with. Great product, great prices, and knowledgeable people on staff to answer questions. They tripled their shipping prices to Canada, though, so I've had to shop elsewhere. I'm not going to pay $156 to ship some brake parts to Canada

 

[Quattro Pete]

Originally Posted By: Craig in Canada

AutohausAZ is a great place to deal with. Great product, great prices, and knowledgeable people on staff to answer questions. They tripled their shipping prices to Canada, though, so I've had to shop elsewhere. I'm not going to pay $156 to ship some brake parts to Canada

That's a shame. Shipping in the US is typically free if you order $50+ worth of stuff.

 

[Jim 5]

Originally Posted By: Craig in Canada
Originally Posted By: Jim 5

That's my experience too. It's probably too late, but it's worth bucking-up for the higher end more expensive water pump with the cast metal pump impeller. Most of the problems with BMW water pumps is the plastic impeller deteriorating and disintigrating inside the cooling system causing multiple reasons for overheating. BMW's have had this problem for years.

BMWs cooling system are not for those who shirk maintenance, but on the whole can be a very reliable car for the responsible car owner.


The thing is, while I'm not a mechanic by any stretch, I have yet to come across someone who actually HAD a plastic impeller in their wpump. I've read some things online, seen pictures, and heard a lot of people saying "if it's composite it may have started to fail". In the end, anyone that I "know" (in person or online) has found a metal impeller. Go figure.

IMO, I think avoiding the composite/plastic impellers is a good call. I'm not sure I care whether it's welded aluminum or cast iron though. A part of me says that the fewer dissimilar metals in the cooling system the better things are. Get a reputable pump brand, no plastic, and any kind of metal impeller will probably outlast the bearing.

Oh yes - and BMW owners with mechanical clutch fans should pay attention that they're working properly. They provide the main cooling to the system. When those clutches fail those vehicles with electric fans will activate those to pick up the slack but the entire system is put under considerable additional stress.



The impellers I've seen looked to be cast iron.

 

[fdcg27]

Based upon the 9K I put on my now winter-stored 318 June through October, you could buy a BMW for its reliability alone.
This fifteen year old car required no attention over the summer, despite my having used it as a daily driver.
I do need to attend to the upper oil pan bolts, which I will do in the spring.
I suspect that any BMW is like any other car.
Educate yourself on the potential problems, and be attentive to them.
Other than that, drive it and enjoy it.
Just 'cause somemone blows a hose and continues to drive the car until it stops (this is what it sounds like from the parts to be replaced) doesn't mean that the car has any inherent faults.
Sounds like the driver does, though.

 

[MCompact]

Originally Posted By: fdcg27
Based upon the 9K I put on my now winter-stored 318 June through October, you could buy a BMW for its reliability alone.
This fifteen year old car required no attention over the summer, despite my having used it as a daily driver.
I do need to attend to the upper oil pan bolts, which I will do in the spring.
I suspect that any BMW is like any other car.
Educate yourself on the potential problems, and be attentive to them.
Other than that, drive it and enjoy it.


BMWs don't tolerate neglect very well at all. Maintaining them properly is the key.