BMW 230i (B46) oil

[Eugenius]

That's not true. In fact, CAFE and the European and UK requirements have gotten much closer in the past couple of years as the US has switched to CO2 emissions as the determinant.

The reply was about CAFE org as established in US and its fines. closer does not mean the same, they have own as part of EU Commission.
You still can select LL04 LL01 for the engine on manufactures Euro sites but not in US

Corporate average fuel economy (CAFE) standards are regulations in the United States, first enacted by the United States Congress in 1975,

https://www.castrol.com/en_us/unite...dProducts&id=7e5a34adc6289fa69cc630bcd57d52b5

https://www.castrol.com/de_de/germa...dProducts&id=b1328e478f388a9d982988e757dbf2ad

 

[kschachn]

The reply was about CAFE org as established in US and its fines. closer does not mean the same, they have own as part of EU Commission.
You still can select LL04 LL01 for the engine on manufactures Euro sites but not in US

That would make sense considering both have the same minimum HT/HS.

You can select either one here as well. What’s in the manual is only a recommendation and not a requirement. It’s not against the law, yet.

 

[chris719]

The owner's manual is crystal clear on the OEM approval that BMW wants: LL-17FE+.

BMW TIS is the real authoritative source and it shows that LL01 (in NA only, no GPF) and LL04 are still technically appropriate oils for B46.

 

[The Lube Guy]

BMW TIS is the real authoritative source and it shows that LL01 (in NA only, no GPF) and LL04 are still technically appropriate oils for B46.

Well, that's good to know.

 

[GJM120]

Certainly is. Not sure I still want to push BMW on wtty issues.

 

[chris719]

Certainly is. Not sure I still want to push BMW on wtty issues.

I ran full LL01 in my M2C, drained between their oil change intervals. I bet they wouldn't notice the oil difference in most warranty claims but if I was paranoid I'd drain it and fill whatever FE they wanted before I brought it in. I guess the only risk is if you have to have your car towed off the road directly to them or something. Rare circumstance.

 

[edyvw]

Mobil embraced GTL. They replaced PAO with it in many lubes. You can't judge them by the pour point because Mobil increased AN concentration and removed POE. There are several patents where they claim that up to 20% AN treat rate creates a significantly improve tribo-film.

FS is 1.2% SAPS

ESP 0/5W-30 is 0.6% SAPS

Looking at FTIR, the only thing that stood out about ESP 0/5W-30 was the use of Borate Esters (similar to PP Euro LX 0W-30, PUP). POE is no more.


I'd love to see the recommended oil list for this vehicle. Not the "add up to 1 quart oil that meets any of these specs", but the actual oil recommendations.

I know they embraced GTL, not fully replaced PAO. Clearly FS has far less PAO then before. It could be oxidation, I said my money is on that and that is nor an issue. But, it could be something else that doesn’t meet BMW standards like timing chain test. Then it is actually a problem.

 

[edyvw]

Certainly is. Not sure I still want to push BMW on wtty issues.

If you don’t want to stray, you just stay with LL17FE.
If you want to keep car, I would run LL01 or LL04 if GPF is present, which I highly doubt. You could also run LL04 regardless of GPF.
As I said, I it was my vehicle only choice I would ever consider is LL01 or LL04. That is it.

 

[The Lube Guy]

If you don’t want to stray, you just stay with LL17FE.
If you want to keep car, I would run LL01 or LL04 if GPF is present, which I highly doubt. You could also run LL04 regardless of GPF.
As I said, I it was my vehicle only choice I would ever consider is LL01 or LL04. That is it.

PP Euro L 5W-30 is very good oil, runs clean, it's all GTL, it's plentiful, cheap, and available everywhere.

 

[edyvw]

PP Euro L 5W-30 is very good oil, runs clean, it's all GTL, it's plentiful, cheap, and available everywhere.

It is good oil. Interesting that you recommend oil that didn’t change 11yrs but Edge 0W30 is “old.”

 

[The Lube Guy]

It is good oil. Interesting that you recommend oil that didn’t change 11yrs but Edge 0W30 is “old.”

The EDGE 0W-30 is older than that. The only reason I recommended it is because of BMW LL04 approval.

I just checked my ESP 0W-30 jugs (11/2023) and nope, no BMW approval. Just making sure.

As to why ESP 5W-30 is approved, and ESP 0W-30 is not, I believe that they use different Infineum additive packages, kind of like Euro L and LX do. I though they were the same, but they aren't. The reason why they aren't the same is because 0W-30 is tweaked for maximum fuel efficiency above all. So who knows what BMW test it fails, or requirement it doesn't meet.

 

[edyvw]

The EDGE 0W-30 is older than that. The only reason I recommended it is because of BMW LL04 approval.

I just checked my ESP 0W-30 jugs (11/2023) and nope, no BMW approval. Just making sure.

As to why ESP 5W-30 is approved, and ESP 0W-30 is not, I believe that they use different Infineum additive packages, kind of like Euro L and LX do. I though they were the same, but they aren't. The reason why they aren't the same is because 0W-30 is tweaked for maximum fuel efficiency above all. So who knows what BMW test it fails, or requirement it doesn't meet.

Again, Edge changed formula last year, 5 years before that, and between 1999 when it was introduced as SLX, and now probably 10 times. Just bcs. it has old fashion additive pack doesn’t mean it is obsolete or not up to standards, considering that it is approved against latest updates of BMW, MB and VW approvals.
Why LX is not approved? That is not secret. For same reason why Mobil1 0W40 in SN version was not, Motul Max 0W40, Pennzoil Platinum Euro 0W40 or Edge 0W30/40 in previous versions, and that is that BMW in LL01-18 and LL04-18 eliminated 0WXX oils. Pennzoil, known to be sloppy when it comes to this stuff, probably will not ask for approval until new batch or version.
Motul EFE 0W30 uses I think same pack, but it is approved for latest LL04 update.
I don’t think it has anything to do with fuel efficiency as LL01 and LL04 require minimum not maximum fuel efficiency. ESP also has HTHS at 3.5. So, again, oxidation, or something more serious (which I highly doubt).
The choice for B46/48 is really not this complicated.

 

[The Lube Guy]

Again, Edge changed formula last year, 5 years before that, and between 1999 when it was introduced as SLX, and now probably 10 times. Just bcs. it has old fashion additive pack doesn’t mean it is obsolete or not up to standards, considering that it is approved against latest updates of BMW, MB and VW approvals.
Why LX is not approved? That is not secret. For same reason why Mobil1 0W40 in SN version was not, Motul Max 0W40, Pennzoil Platinum Euro 0W40 or Edge 0W30/40 in previous versions, and that is that BMW in LL01-18 and LL04-18 eliminated 0WXX oils. Pennzoil, known to be sloppy when it comes to this stuff, probably will not ask for approval until new batch or version.
Motul EFE 0W30 uses I think same pack, but it is approved for latest LL04 update.
I don’t think it has anything to do with fuel efficiency as LL01 and LL04 require minimum not maximum fuel efficiency. ESP also has HTHS at 3.5. So, again, oxidation, or something more serious (which I highly doubt).
The choice for B46/48 is really not this complicated.

Your depth of knowledge on these oils is truly impressive. I got no arguments.

And you're right, it's not that complicated.

 

[Eugenius]

I dont think that P Euro L 5W30 LL04 is a better oil. There was UOA on bimmer forum where it sheared substantially only after 5K in B46
If I'd deviate from the manual, I would go with a good LL01, not that P Euro L

There was another Edy (Edycol), who commented on it as not happy with it. (Maybe the same Edy )

Who need the full bimmer thread can google Pennzoil Platinum Euro Oil Analysis

 

[edyvw]

I dont think that P Euro L 5W30 LL04 is a better oil. There was UOA on bimmer forum where it sheared substantially only after 5K in B46
If I'd deviate from the manual, I would go with a good LL01, not that P Euro L

There was another Edy (Edycol), who commented on it as not happy with it. (Maybe the same Edy )

Who need the full bimmer thread can google Pennzoil Platinum Euro Oil Analysis

It did shear, but still looks ok. My go to LL04 would be Mobil1 ESP 5W30 which is available for $37 in AAP and AZ. Motul EFE 0W30 should be good (I am waiting UOA from BS that I have sent last Saturday. 5k in Atlas).

 

[kschachn]

I dont think that P Euro L 5W30 LL04 is a better oil. There was UOA on bimmer forum where it sheared substantially only after 5K in B46
If I'd deviate from the manual, I would go with a good LL01, not that P Euro L

There was another Edy (Edycol), who commented on it as not happy with it. (Maybe the same Edy )

Who need the full bimmer thread can google Pennzoil Platinum Euro Oil Analysis

No way to tell from a Blackstone analysis whether a viscosity deviation is from mechanical shear of the VM or from fuel dilution.

 

[The Lube Guy]

I dont think that P Euro L 5W30 LL04 is a better oil. There was UOA on bimmer forum where it sheared substantially only after 5K in B46
If I'd deviate from the manual, I would go with a good LL01, not that P Euro L

Below is the most recent VOA I could find, from 2022. Judging by the UOA you posted, that PP Euro L 5W-30 was mixed with something else.

It is ill advised to make a decision on which oil to use based on VOAs, let alone UOAs.

 

[chris719]

The M1 ESP 5W-30 is interesting because it's one of, if not the only, API SP licensed oils that has no moly in it. I wonder what they are using in that oil for FM instead.

 

[The Lube Guy]

The M1 ESP 5W-30 is interesting because it's one of, if not the only, API SP licensed oils that has no moly in it. I wonder what they are using in that oil for FM instead.

Synthetic Esters, Glycerol Monooleate, PAOs, Ionic Liquids, Polymers, and even ZDDP, can contribute to friction reduction. Formulation is everything. Ultimately, it is not what an oil is, it is what an oil does.

 

[BMW Dom]

You guys are obsessed with Moly! Holy Moly!!