LL01FE has max HTHS of 3.49. It doesn’t make it more suitable than Castrol 0W40.
BMW 230i (B46) oil
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Where did you get this datasheet?
That is what I find and it’s dated 17 Oct 22 and doesn’t show SFU LL01FE and has the -60 PP. Your datasheet also shows a VI near 200.
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I know, I was just going by what Castrol claims:
As for the rest of the questions, I believe only Castrol is in a position to answer them. FWIW, Mobil 1 FS 5W-30 is LL01 approved, and it uses the same add pack the rest of the lineup uses, and it's blended primarily with GTL, and while Group III is not mentioned on the SDS, I assume the rest is PAO and ANs. Point being that the add pack is Mg/Ca for the M1, and it's still licensed as API SL. My two cents: I don't know why they even bother to get an API SL license for these oils, when they already have strong OEM approvals.
On such a new and expensive car, I would go to the higher HTHS oil ASAP. With 20 weight oils: Protection is adequate but not optimal.
If CAFE fines didn't exist, it's likely all new cars would be speced for 30 weight oils.
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Not necessarily. Lubricant quality is also very important, besides viscosity. That is why there are so many kinds of 0W-20, with varying OEM approvals. Vehicles tend to have so many other problems, that if you use a quality lubricant within OEM specifications, you're very unlikely to experience a lubricant related failure, ever. I'm talking about a daily driver, of course. Simple example: I bet that the VNT inside a turbo on this engine will fail due to heat cycling and exhaust crud way before the bearings fails due to "water thin" 0W-20.
The B46 is an ultra low emissions engine, that is why I recommended ESP 0W-30. However, ESP 5W-30 would also work, if approval is a concern. I am reasonably sure that this engine has a GPF. Maybe @edyvw knows more about this.
Castrol claims. BMW doesn’t recognize suitable for. Either oil is at 3.5 and above or below. That is it.
We don’t know what other components ESP has over FS, besides obviously having differences as one is 0W and another 5W. Also, FS pour point indicates it is Group III oil. ESP has decent amount of PAO. We all should know SDS nly tells part of the story.
It shouldn’t have GPF. If LL01FE is option, it absolutely shouldn’t.
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Mobil embraced GTL. They replaced PAO with it in many lubes. You can't judge them by the pour point because Mobil increased AN concentration and removed POE. There are several patents where they claim that up to 20% AN treat rate creates a significantly improve tribo-film.
FS is 1.2% SAPS
ESP 0/5W-30 is 0.6% SAPS
Looking at FTIR, the only thing that stood out about ESP 0/5W-30 was the use of Borate Esters (similar to PP Euro LX 0W-30, PUP). POE is no more.
I'd love to see the recommended oil list for this vehicle. Not the "add up to 1 quart oil that meets any of these specs", but the actual oil recommendations.
it is specced for 0W30 LL01FE right in the manual. question not about weight.
The BMW of Europe moved to FE oils also with lower HTHS with 30K km OCI 24 months
I truly do not believe these FE oils are substantially less optimal and BMW push it without proper testing it for B48/B58
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I think it’s more of a matter of being acceptable rather than optimal.
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Question for you: how much does a quart of 0W-20 weigh compared to a quart of 5W-30?
BMW might be tempted to recommend whatever will save them money on CAFE fines.it is specced for 0W30 LL01FE right in the manual. question not about weight.
The BMW of Europe moved to FE oils also with lower HTHS with 30K km OCI 24 months
I truly do not believe these FE oils are substantially less optimal and BMW push it without proper testing it for B48/B58
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Erfahren Sie mehr über die neuesten Shell Motorenöl-Technologien und finden Sie das passende Produkt für Ihren PKW oder ihre Nutzfahrzeuge.
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Erfahren Sie mehr über die neuesten Shell Motorenöl-Technologien und finden Sie das passende Produkt für Ihren PKW oder ihre Nutzfahrzeuge.
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The owner's manual is crystal clear on the OEM approval that BMW wants: LL-17FE+. Too bad the messed up at the bottom and managed to create confusion, as there is no 0W-30 LL-17FE+. I think they mentioned 0W-30 in reference to "Alternative engine oil types". So, if the owner wants to stick to official BMW recommendations, then the rest of this discussion is moot, and was a waste of time.
Allowed grades with an approval like Longlife is pretty silly, just as it is with VW and Mercedes-Benz approvals. Thankfully M-B doesn’t include that with some recent approvals.
Argue over the winter rating if you must but the rest is pretty useless. Sometimes I think it’s just marketing.
Argue over the winter rating if you must but the rest is pretty useless. Sometimes I think it’s just marketing.
CAFE is pure American invention
Europe has their own, but not that strict to require to use only FE oils, as for example Castrol, LM in Europe still recommend LL01 LL04
Mine also the same B46 and has LL01FE in the manual
That's not true. In fact, CAFE and the European and UK requirements have gotten much closer in the past couple of years as the US has switched to CO2 emissions as the determinant.
It's not that the NHTSA requires the use of FE oils since there is no such requirement. The requirement is restrictions on what oils can be recommended by the automaker after corporate average fuel economy testing has been completed. This is similar to the EU and UK restrictions. Not only can they not recommend other oils, they must actively discourage the use and must actively ensure supply chain availability of those same oils.
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How's a manufacturer supposed to do that?
If you seek out and read an EPA agreement letter you will see. They have to ensure that at dealerships and even elsewhere there is an available supply of the oil grade used in testing. A manufacturer cannot perform fuel economy tests with an oil that is not readily available.
Here is an example of an older letter. They even need to make sure there are sufficient sales of that grade and it must be reported back to the EPA:
Best 0w16 oil?
Can't wait to be titillated by the secrets. Do we have to learn a handshake first? I have the data, kschachn. The numbers are there. We have it all.
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