BIG mid-sized SUV knowledge

[Graham Piccinini]

VW is great on paper, praised by VW fans, but most new-to-VW owners are surprised with weird issues. That has always been an issue with VW. Those who are used to the brand see many issues as normal maintenance items, but the rest of us are able to see that those issues aren't normal or routine, when compared to other brands.
Honda Pilot is still a winner, in my opinion. The timing belt job at the Honda dealership is still gonna be cheaper than a single weird VW issue fixed by the VW dealership. Difference is you got 100K miles to save up for the timing belt on Honda, while VW stuff happens when you least expect it and when you're least prepared. I learned that lesson through losing nearly $6000 into a "prestine and well maintained" 2013 VW Tiguan. Timing chain, turbocharger twice, buying special tools, and a few other odds and ends, all between 100k-145k miles... It was an awesome car when everything was working right. But when something broke - it was always $500-$1000 DIY or $1500-$2000 at the dealership. I know a small group of VW owners who had great experience, but for the most part - VW ownership experiences seem to match mine... Hit or miss, 50% chance of success is there I guess.

 

[KCJeep]

OP would have 4 years and 50k miles on VW's dime to figure out whether or not he wanted to keep it. I don't personally recommend (or keep) VW's or any Euro vehicle much beyond 110-plus k unless you can self-repair or have a deep enough pocket to have someone else repair without getting annoyed. Most new vehicle buyers will have traded it off by then anyway.

While Euro cars have a long-standing reputation to be expensive to repair, the last 10-15 years everything has become ridiculous. I had two fairly recent what I'd consider minor repairs at a KIA dealership that were quite painful.

My last two VWs (purchased new) have accounted for a grand total of one warranty repair between them so far.

I find it amusing the OP is scared of VW but is considering GM? Okay.... (that is meant to be light-hearted).

Seriously though, if you're that spooked by VW don't buy one, the first time anything went wrong you'd be freaked out.

 

[PimTac]

Actual measurements that sales people are posting and seeing in real life seem to differ from whatever Mazda did to calculate cargo volume.

Cargo volume is not the end all. It depends on the shape of that cargo volume. Usable space is the key.

 

[edyvw]

VW is great on paper, praised by VW fans, but most new-to-VW owners are surprised with weird issues. That has always been an issue with VW. Those who are used to the brand see many issues as normal maintenance items, but the rest of us are able to see that those issues aren't normal or routine, when compared to other brands.
Honda Pilot is still a winner, in my opinion. The timing belt job at the Honda dealership is still gonna be cheaper than a single weird VW issue fixed by the VW dealership. Difference is you got 100K miles to save up for the timing belt on Honda, while VW stuff happens when you least expect it and when you're least prepared. I learned that lesson through losing nearly $6000 into a "prestine and well maintained" 2013 VW Tiguan. Timing chain, turbocharger twice, buying special tools, and a few other odds and ends, all between 100k-145k miles... It was an awesome car when everything was working right. But when something broke - it was always $500-$1000 DIY or $1500-$2000 at the dealership. I know a small group of VW owners who had great experience, but for the most part - VW ownership experiences seem to match mine... Hit or miss, 50% chance of success is there I guess.

What are weird issues?

 

[t1snwrbrdr12]

OP would have 4 years and 50k miles on VW's dime to figure out whether or not he wanted to keep it. I don't personally recommend (or keep) VW's or any Euro vehicle much beyond 110-plus k unless you can self-repair or have a deep enough pocket to have someone else repair without getting annoyed. Most new vehicle buyers will have traded it off by then anyway.

While Euro cars have a long-standing reputation to be expensive to repair, the last 10-15 years everything has become ridiculous. I had two fairly recent what I'd consider minor repairs at a KIA dealership that were quite painful.

My last two VWs (purchased new) have accounted for a grand total of one warranty repair between them so far.

I find it amusing the OP is scared of VW but is considering GM? Okay.... (that is meant to be light-hearted).

Seriously though, if you're that spooked by VW don't buy one, the first time anything went wrong you'd be freaked out.

Haha! Chevy Traverses look nice! And browsing their groups and forums, seem to be relatively problem free. I’d like to assume the timing issues they have are from neglect…maybe I’m over reaching with that assumption but idk, the drivers of them around me definitely don’t seem to look like they maintain them.

It’s still the only available SUV that we haven’t gone and driven or sat in, though…if that gives you any glimpse of my thoughts of their reliability. I’m more hesitant of them than the VW

 

[Graham Piccinini]

What are weird issues?

The need to replace timing chain as often or more often than a timing belt on a Honda. Isn't the purpose of a timing chain to be more robust and not have to be replaced as often? I know 3 people whos VW chains developed the death rattle before 100k miles, one was at 60k miles.
Then there are endless electrical gremlins. I had people swear up and down that all electrical VW issues died with the MKIV platform. Yet here we are and even Atlas still suffers: windows go up/down on their own due to bad wiring harness, batteries die prematurely (on early Atlas, 2018/2019) due to some kind of parasitic draw somewhere, and so on... I can't list everything as there is a lot, and no one is paying me to list all this stuff... Then there is the wonderful phenomena of needing VW-specific tools for any little task, needing advanced OBD scanners, etc. ...anyways.
VW products are great, as long as there is a very generous warranty with it. Keeping it past the warranty period is a financial suicide for anyone without a 6-figure income. Yet Toyota/Honda do just fine in similar circumstances, waaay past the warranty period. Yes, they still have issues, but pretty DIY friendly and not as costly to repair. Except for those rare cases similar to the user error that broke the expensive (was it $3k? can't remember exact number now) hatch mechanism on your Sienna.

VW scene is pretty big in Charlotte area, but for every success story there are two or more financial disaster stories... I want to love VAG, I really do. I have yet to find a FWD car that handles mountains as well as a GTI. But can't play that gamble yet. Every VW is a Russian Roulette. I'm glad yours were trouble-free, but for most of the people I know (including myself) VW are troublesome.

 

[edyvw]

The need to replace timing chain as often or more often than a timing belt on a Honda. Isn't the purpose of a timing chain to be more robust and not have to be replaced as often? I know 3 people whos VW chains developed the death rattle before 100k miles, one was at 60k miles.
Then there are endless electrical gremlins. I had people swear up and down that all electrical VW issues died with the MKIV platform. Yet here we are and even Atlas still suffers: windows go up/down on their own due to bad wiring harness, batteries die prematurely (on early Atlas, 2018/2019) due to some kind of parasitic draw somewhere, and so on... I can't list everything as there is a lot, and no one is paying me to list all this stuff... Then there is the wonderful phenomena of needing VW-specific tools for any little task, needing advanced OBD scanners, etc. ...anyways.
VW products are great, as long as there is a very generous warranty with it. Keeping it past the warranty period is a financial suicide for anyone without a 6-figure income. Yet Toyota/Honda do just fine in similar circumstances, waaay past the warranty period. Yes, they still have issues, but pretty DIY friendly and not as costly to repair. Except for those rare cases similar to the user error that broke the expensive (was it $3k? can't remember exact number now) hatch mechanism on your Sienna.

VW scene is pretty big in Charlotte area, but for every success story there are two or more financial disaster stories... I want to love VAG, I really do. I have yet to find a FWD car that handles mountains as well as a GTI. But can't play that gamble yet. Every VW is a Russian Roulette. I'm glad yours were trouble-free, but for most of the people I know (including myself) VW are troublesome.

So basically you have no idea?
Timing chain tensioner was updated 11 years ago! I repeat, 11 years ago!!!
MKIV? Dows that mean Toyota engines will sludge like 3.0 C6 from that period? Or Honda will grenade transmission like 1st gen Pilot? Or Tundra still has rusty frames?
This is that typical: “I bought refrigerator, how to make myself feel better? Let’s ask my wife’s daughter’s friend boyfriend’s sister how is her VW.”

 

[KCJeep]

Haha! Chevy Traverses look nice! And browsing their groups and forums, seem to be relatively problem free. I’d like to assume the timing issues they have are from neglect…maybe I’m over reaching with that assumption but idk, the drivers of them around me definitely don’t seem to look like they maintain them.

It’s still the only available SUV that we haven’t gone and driven or sat in, though…if that gives you any glimpse of my thoughts of their reliability. I’m more hesitant of them than the VW

Seriously GM generally makes nice driving vehicles, at least they used to. I had at least one in the driveway for about 25 years although I wouldn't touch one now. I get it, we all have biases. I do think the Traverse is pretty well sorted. Now you have to go drive one and report back.

 

[t1snwrbrdr12]

Seriously GM generally makes nice driving vehicles, at least they used to. I had at least one in the driveway for about 25 years although I wouldn't touch one now. I get it, we all have biases. I do think the Traverse is pretty well sorted. Now you have to go drive one and report back.

Ehhh.

I have a neighbor that only has GMs and keeps them immaculate. I’ve been wanting to stop by and pick his brain about their feelings on their Traverse (I know they’ve been in loaners for it at least a couple times), but I don’t think they keep them long enough to even have to buy tires for them once either…so although their opinion would be valuable, it only goes so far too.

I’d just have trouble ever considering it a 150-200k mile family hauler. Maybe it’d be fine, idk.

 

[dishdude]

GM fixed the timing chain issues on the 3.6 over a decade ago, and even then the ones that seemed to fail had been neglected. I can't believe we're still discussing this.

 

[UncleDave]

VW is great on paper, praised by VW fans, but most new-to-VW owners are surprised with weird issues. That has always been an issue with VW. Those who are used to the brand see many issues as normal maintenance items, but the rest of us are able to see that those issues aren't normal or routine, when compared to other brands.
Honda Pilot is still a winner, in my opinion. The timing belt job at the Honda dealership is still gonna be cheaper than a single weird VW issue fixed by the VW dealership. Difference is you got 100K miles to save up for the timing belt on Honda, while VW stuff happens when you least expect it and when you're least prepared. I learned that lesson through losing nearly $6000 into a "prestine and well maintained" 2013 VW Tiguan. Timing chain, turbocharger twice, buying special tools, and a few other odds and ends, all between 100k-145k miles... It was an awesome car when everything was working right. But when something broke - it was always $500-$1000 DIY or $1500-$2000 at the dealership. I know a small group of VW owners who had great experience, but for the most part - VW ownership experiences seem to match mine... Hit or miss, 50% chance of success is there I guess.

It's probably a top 2-3 choice depending on whether one views regular maintenance vs potential surprises.

From a guy with a J35 - Its not just the belt, it's the belt, water pump, rollers, tensioner, and valves adjustments.

"1000.00" every 100K gets tossed out but its more than that for a regular guy following the book or maintenance minder.

We've seen demonstrated in another thread that staying on top of these can net you a million mile engine and that when ignored you pay the price in terms of a burned valve when ignoring things like valve adjustments.

This is fairly expensive in the long run, but yes likely cheaper than an unscheduled valvetrain surprise which we know isnt an uncommon occurrence.

 

[edyvw]

It's probably a top 2-3 choice depending on whether one views regular maintenance vs potential surprises.

From a guy with a J35 - Its not just the belt, it's the belt, water pump, rollers, tensioner, and valves adjustments.

"1000.00" every 100K gets tossed out but its more than that for a regular guy following the book or maintenance minder.

We've seen demonstrated in another thread that staying on top of these can net you a million mile engine and that when ignored you pay the price in terms of a burned valve when ignoring things like valve adjustments.

This is fairly expensive in the long run, but yes likely cheaper than an unscheduled valvetrain surprise which we know isnt an uncommon occurrence.

VW had timing chain tensioner issue. I replaced mine at 64k with updated one. 101k now and engine didn’t explode.

 

[UncleDave]

VW had timing chain tensioner issue. I replaced mine at 64k with updated one. 101k now and engine didn’t explode.

Sounds like a nasty surprise with a relatively long term fix. Hopefully forever.

I did't specifically call out VW because there a litany of valve train issues amongst all the manufacturers.
It simply isn't a guarantee that a top end is forever regardless of what brand you buy.

 

[Graham Piccinini]

So basically you have no idea?
Timing chain tensioner was updated 11 years ago! I repeat, 11 years ago!!!
MKIV? Dows that mean Toyota engines will sludge like 3.0 C6 from that period? Or Honda will grenade transmission like 1st gen Pilot? Or Tundra still has rusty frames?
This is that typical: “I bought refrigerator, how to make myself feel better? Let’s ask my wife’s daughter’s friend boyfriend’s sister how is her VW.”

You're a smart fella, I've seen it here many times, some of your posts taught me lots! I'm genuinely thankful for those! But you really do surprise me sometimes... Anytime someone brings up a negative 1st hand review on VAG - you seem to be very triggered and go into attack & discredit mode... Sad.
Instead of nitpicking on a single point - read my whole reply, and reflect on everything mentioned, if you feel the need to do so.
I do not discredit VW for their achievements, but I'm not a VW-addict and will not turn a blind eye to their significant downfalls. 1-5% of those downfalls are in my messages above, and I barely brushed the surface there.
The "11 years ago!!!" remark doesn't exactly line up with reality... Basically everything after 2012 is fixed and good? My Tiguan was 2013, needed the chain... The other 3 vehicles I mentioned earlier - were all newer than my Tiguan.
Anyways, I've shared plenty, good luck with your decision OP.
Peace

 

[Trav]

The need to replace timing chain as often or more often than a timing belt on a Honda. Isn't the purpose of a timing chain to be more robust and not have to be replaced as often? I know 3 people whos VW chains developed the death rattle before 100k miles, one was at 60k miles.
Then there are endless electrical gremlins. I had people swear up and down that all electrical VW issues died with the MKIV platform. Yet here we are and even Atlas still suffers: windows go up/down on their own due to bad wiring harness, batteries die prematurely (on early Atlas, 2018/2019) due to some kind of parasitic draw somewhere, and so on... I can't list everything as there is a lot, and no one is paying me to list all this stuff... Then there is the wonderful phenomena of needing VW-specific tools for any little task, needing advanced OBD scanners, etc. ...anyways.
VW products are great, as long as there is a very generous warranty with it. Keeping it past the warranty period is a financial suicide for anyone without a 6-figure income. Yet Toyota/Honda do just fine in similar circumstances, waaay past the warranty period. Yes, they still have issues, but pretty DIY friendly and not as costly to repair. Except for those rare cases similar to the user error that broke the expensive (was it $3k? can't remember exact number now) hatch mechanism on your Sienna.

VW scene is pretty big in Charlotte area, but for every success story there are two or more financial disaster stories... I want to love VAG, I really do. I have yet to find a FWD car that handles mountains as well as a GTI. But can't play that gamble yet. Every VW is a Russian Roulette. I'm glad yours were trouble-free, but for most of the people I know (including myself) VW are troublesome.

I have owned and worked on quite a few MKIV and can tell you with certainty most of the issues were either owner neglect of hack workmanship. As far as advanced scan tools go VW is one of the easiest cars made to get a full comprehensive scan tool for.

 

[t1snwrbrdr12]

It's probably a top 2-3 choice depending on whether one views regular maintenance vs potential surprises.

From a guy with a J35 - Its not just the belt, it's the belt, water pump, rollers, tensioner, and valves adjustments.

"1000.00" every 100K gets tossed out but its more than that for a regular guy following the book or maintenance minder.

We've seen demonstrated in another thread that staying on top of these can net you a million mile engine and that when ignored you pay the price in terms of a burned valve when ignoring things like valve adjustments.

This is fairly expensive in the long run, but yes likely cheaper than an unscheduled valvetrain surprise which we know isnt an uncommon occurrence.

I think the new 3.5 Honda has no valve adjustments anymore. Timing belt tensioner is supposed to be mechanical, so hopefully less reason to have to include that on a timing belt job. At least a little savings.

 

[UncleDave]

I think the new 3.5 Honda has no valve adjustments anymore. Timing belt tensioner is supposed to be mechanical, so hopefully less reason to have to include that on a timing belt job. At least a little savings.

I've seen little on the new DOHC 6, Im eager to see exactly where they would put hydraulic adjustment and to know if it will chop RPM off the top - just like it did with the 650 nighthawk motorcycle vs the prior mechanical adjustment bikes.



Mechanical belt tensioners get replaced as well as hydraulics they should be replaced when you do the belt/ pump.

 

[edyvw]

You're a smart fella, I've seen it here many times, some of your posts taught me lots! I'm genuinely thankful for those! But you really do surprise me sometimes... Anytime someone brings up a negative 1st hand review on VAG - you seem to be very triggered and go into attack & discredit mode... Sad.
Instead of nitpicking on a single point - read my whole reply, and reflect on everything mentioned, if you feel the need to do so.
I do not discredit VW for their achievements, but I'm not a VW-addict and will not turn a blind eye to their significant downfalls. 1-5% of those downfalls are in my messages above, and I barely brushed the surface there.
The "11 years ago!!!" remark doesn't exactly line up with reality... Basically everything after 2012 is fixed and good? My Tiguan was 2013, needed the chain... The other 3 vehicles I mentioned earlier - were all newer than my Tiguan.
Anyways, I've shared plenty, good luck with your decision OP.
Peace

Yes, after 2012 tensioner is fixed.
I didn’t tell OP to get VW. But this narrative how Euro cars have some ridiculous issues is typical of “how I am going to feel my self better.” I probably had 20 VW’s as personal or business vehicle and all were more reliable that Toyota’s I had, Mazda and Honda. Actually of al vehicles, Toyota and Mazda were the only one that didn’t want to start one morning just like that. Honda Pilot almost left me on the road. When that oil pressure switch dies in the mountains and goes into safe mode, you are struggling. No VW etc. ever dis that.
So, VW has weird issues, but I guess that abysmal issue that Toyota had on 8 speed is what? It happens?
nd those Tiguans you mentioned? Owners neglect!

 

[Slick3914]

Seriously GM generally makes nice driving vehicles, at least they used to. I had at least one in the driveway for about 25 years although I wouldn't touch one now. I get it, we all have biases. I do think the Traverse is pretty well sorted. Now you have to go drive one and report back.

We have a ‘21 Traverse RS that we really like. It’s great for road trips.

 

[Trav]

Yes, after 2012 tensioner is fixed.
I didn’t tell OP to get VW. But this narrative how Euro cars have some ridiculous issues is typical of “how I am going to feel my self better.” I probably had 20 VW’s as personal or business vehicle and all were more reliable that Toyota’s I had, Mazda and Honda. Actually of al vehicles, Toyota and Mazda were the only one that didn’t want to start one morning just like that. Honda Pilot almost left me on the road. When that oil pressure switch dies in the mountains and goes into safe mode, you are struggling. No VW etc. ever dis that.
So, VW has weird issues, but I guess that abysmal issue that Toyota had on 8 speed is what? It happens?
nd those Tiguans you mentioned? Owners neglect!

Not using Euro oils and the correct fluids can cause lots of problems as well as not using one of these on connectors, you wont believe the amount of broken tabs I run into and every one of them can cause electrical trouble.