Welcome to the dark side, young Skywalker...I did say we are screwed up species, didn’t I?
In all seriousness, though, I might find the prospect of possibly having and holding an interest in Starlink … so I don’t think he’s that crazy
Big Ford EV Announcement Coming Aug 11th
- Thread starter E365
- Start date
More info coming on the Ford Universal EV program coming on Tuesday. They’re still planning a mid-size EV truck to be the first on the new platform in 2027.
https://www.fromtheroad.ford.com/us...unty-hunters-pursuit-of-efficiency-livestream
https://www.fromtheroad.ford.com/us...unty-hunters-pursuit-of-efficiency-livestream
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Very curious to see how Ford tackled aero. That's the biggest driver of battery size. Lucid has that nifty underbody tray that taper upwards to help the air converge smoothly at the rear. That and the smaller frontal area are important areas for reducing drag.
IF Ford gets these trucks to market and the prices are in the $30k range like they say, it'll be interesting to see how well they sell. If an affordable EV still flops, that'll be the nail in the coffin for Ford's EV program I would say. And, I'm betting there's a chance of it, because they still haven't solved 2 of the 3 critical issues: range/charger availability and charge speed.
Wonder if we ever see the day of a "stripped down" SUV that can tow 5000 lbs or even a non towing SUV EV. ? Most likely not, we would need a depression for the general average population to spend a reasonable amount of money on a vehicle and force manufacturers to deliver that type of vehicle.
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Or just buy used.
I think at that price point, the target demographic would probably be households for whom this is a second or third vehicle. The reason I say that is because it's still a new car price, and used cars are cheaper. At that price point for a new vehicle, one can't expect much in the way of amenities. So someone buying a new vehicle priced that low is probably not shopping for their primary household vehicle.
It matters because infrastructure and charging speed are primarily issues for road trips, but these households probably have another vehicle for that use case. This is precisely how I purchased my first EV. It was our third car and was always intended to be such. Then we had two and they became our daily drivers, but we still had the Expedition for long trips.
I'm curious to see how the new Bolt and Leaf will sell. The Equinox seems to be doing well, but it has a ton of incentives piled on.
I wonder what percentage of people wish to tow with their SUV? I am guessing its fairly small? Stripped down EV for $30K either way would be the true test though.
Doesn't help Ford really.
Median Household income is around $80K. So $30K for a vehicle is not particularly cheap for most households.
Third vehicle - most just keep there old one and buy something new, even here in Affluentville.
I have never did it any other way. Most all larger gasoline SUV's offer tow packages as options or come with them already installed or capable.
Chevy Traverse and higher, Ford Explorer and higher, Honda Passport or Honda Pilot, VW Atlas are examples of models that offer 5000+ tow ratings. Models larger and more expensive of course offer or even come standard
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Considering how few truck owners tow or haul, the numbers for SUV owners is probably even smaller.
I think households shopping a 30K vehicle are making much more than 80K and probably have other vehicles available. My older vehicles turn into hand-me-downs. I don't think I've ever gotten rid of a vehicle before its service life was nearly exhausted.
Looks like Ford took a page from Lucid's playbook and focused on efficiency. This reduces the size of the battery needed to propel the vehicle, which in turn reduces the vehicle cost since the battery is the biggest cost driver.
More details emerge on Ford's $30k EV pickup goal.
I'm skeptical but would love to be wrong.
https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a70390625/2028-ford-mid-size-electric-truck-details/
I'm skeptical but would love to be wrong.
https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a70390625/2028-ford-mid-size-electric-truck-details/
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I watched the video... guess what they're doing? A LOT of stuff that Tesla started.
- Simplifying assemblies to reduce part count
- Cell to pack instead of cell to module to pack
- Going from a bunch of individual control modules to five centralized ones
- Going from 12V to 48V
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If Ford can hit that target price that's very, very good, especially in light of the inflation we've seen since the pandemic. Tesla never got its Model 3 pricing that low, even with the "off menu" option. Competition is good.
One thing I've never understood is why Ford never used its aero knowledge to get better mpg out of the F150. Many fleets run those trucks and they're very sensitive to fuel and opportunities for cost savings. I guess it wasn't as focused on aero drag until it delved into the EV space.
True, but the Model 3 has been one of the best selling vehicles in the world since it was released. Tesla had no reason to stimulate sales by offering a lower margin vehicle.
Aero on F150s is pretty trick and hidden even in the ICE variants. There was a lot of efficiencies left on the table when trying to fit all the EV components in an existing truck.
My 18 had a lot of aero baked in. Front air dam was generous, air curtains around both front wheels. Bottom plating (metal, plastic) that went 6’ back from nose to transmission, adaptive grill shutters, separate, on both radiator and intercooler. It then was more traditional on the back 2/3. Take any one of those things out of factory guise and mpg suffers. I tried to stay as stock as I could, and the 4x4 turbo stayed around 20.9 mpg most of the time, which I thought was pretty impressive.
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My Expedition had none of those, and I could get over 20 mpg just by driving 65 mph. I think a lot of the gain comes from tapering the rear to reduce turbulence in the wake. Looking at the F150 cab and underside, Ford didn't do that. The air dams seem like parts they just dropped into an existing design. Why is nearly the entire undercarriage exposed to turbulent airflow? I'm curious to see whether any of the improvements on this new platform will spill over into the next F150.
https://www.fastcompany.com/91528934/jim-farley-on-why-ford-is-doubling-down-on-affordable-evs
We got out of our high-end EVs, but what we decided to do is double down on our affordable ones. And that is what’s selling today around the world, not just in the U.S. You look at Australia, you look at China, you look at Europe. All those markets are moving to a pure EV being more of a commuter-type, low-cost vehicle. That’s really where the market has already gone.
It’s sped up. You’re absolutely right. Look at it this way: I could argue that the car business in most industrial countries is the heart and soul of the manufacturing base. It creates a lot of jobs. It has a bigger impact. For every job you create in a factory, there’s tenfold that gets created in the economy. And it’s very hard to make a car. It’s tens of thousands of pieces from all over the world, and it takes heavy manufacturing and know-how. So these are really important jobs. Today, the Chinese car industry sells about 29 million new vehicles there every year, but they have 50 million units of capacity to build cars.
We got out of our high-end EVs, but what we decided to do is double down on our affordable ones. And that is what’s selling today around the world, not just in the U.S. You look at Australia, you look at China, you look at Europe. All those markets are moving to a pure EV being more of a commuter-type, low-cost vehicle. That’s really where the market has already gone.
It’s sped up. You’re absolutely right. Look at it this way: I could argue that the car business in most industrial countries is the heart and soul of the manufacturing base. It creates a lot of jobs. It has a bigger impact. For every job you create in a factory, there’s tenfold that gets created in the economy. And it’s very hard to make a car. It’s tens of thousands of pieces from all over the world, and it takes heavy manufacturing and know-how. So these are really important jobs. Today, the Chinese car industry sells about 29 million new vehicles there every year, but they have 50 million units of capacity to build cars.
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He's right to some extent. There's obviously more volume, but less margin, as the lower end of the market. But I think GM got it right by using Ultium to scale and increase component use across platforms. Toyota also got it right by providing hybrid options across the entire lineup before offering full EVs.
Ford has done a good job on the product introduction side (Powerboost, Maverick, Bronco, Mach E, Lightning) but quality and electrification have been poorly executed because the products were not profitable. China's overcapacity is good for consumers only if you disregard the impact to jobs.
Probably a great idea to get these prices down. Ford Universal EV platform, GM’s upcoming “Next Gen Affordable EV” platform, LFP cells, LMR cells. All good - at least for the consumer.
The lower-end auto segment probably benefits the most from a transition to EVs. Operating costs are the lowest (and a consumer who is price-conscious). Combine that with future EV retail costs equal to lower-end ICE - and it could be a no-brainer for many more people.
In addition, ICE powertrains under $30k are generally quite terrible. Weak, rough, buzzy, terrible shifting, etc. Replacing that with a turbine-smooth, high torque electric motor is such a massive upgrade.
The lower-end auto segment probably benefits the most from a transition to EVs. Operating costs are the lowest (and a consumer who is price-conscious). Combine that with future EV retail costs equal to lower-end ICE - and it could be a no-brainer for many more people.
In addition, ICE powertrains under $30k are generally quite terrible. Weak, rough, buzzy, terrible shifting, etc. Replacing that with a turbine-smooth, high torque electric motor is such a massive upgrade.
