Big Ford EV Announcement Coming Aug 11th

[Torrid]

Much like those who are emotionally invested in EV's perhaps?

If you want to start a contracting company and do it out of an EV pickup - feel free. I see guys around here working out of minivan's with a dozen ladders strapped to the roof. I give them great credit for just getting it done.

I don't see anyone getting that worked up just trying to explain how it works with experience with the type of vehicle. You're so concerned with being right that you're not concerned about reality. Yes, there are drawbacks, but the crazy scenarios you're putting up are one offs.

Here's something that came up that could have been a problem with an EV. I ran an update on my car while it was charging. The charger I have uses a protection that when the car is done charging, it shuts off and no longer supplies power to the car. When it goes into its protection mode, the charger has to be unplugged and plugged back in to charge again. During updates, charging stops at some point. This time it was for more than 20 minutes and it was long enough for my charger to go into protection. If I hadn't noticed this before bed I would have woken up to a car at 47% instead of 80%. This is specific to the design of my charger though. I don't know how many use this. The Tesla Mobile Connector and Home Connector do not do this.

 

[SC Maintenance]

I don't see anyone getting that worked up just trying to explain how it works with experience with the type of vehicle. You're so concerned with being right that you're not concerned about reality. Yes, there are drawbacks, but the crazy scenarios you're putting up are one offs.

Here's something that came up that could have been a problem with an EV. I ran an update on my car while it was charging. The charger I have uses a protection that when the car is done charging, it shuts off and no longer supplies power to the car. When it goes into its protection mode, the charger has to be unplugged and plugged back in to charge again. During updates, charging stops at some point. This time it was for more than 20 minutes and it was long enough for my charger to go into protection. If I hadn't noticed this before bed I would have woken up to a car at 47% instead of 80%. This is specific to the design of my charger though. I don't know how many use this. The Tesla Mobile Connector and Home Connector do not do this.

I am right because the people that managed these fleets of commercial trucks voted with there wallet, and the Lightning is no more and the CT is holding on due to ego. If they were so awesome they would have been adopted. These people are 100% about ROI, so they would use a flying saucer if it were better.

My conversation was with a poster discussing the feasibility of using an EV for commercial applications. The people who actually spend the money chose something else. Sure, there were a few outliers, but it was not successful.

Amazon has a pretty good fleet of EV's. There 100% controlled with telemetry, there one of the most sophisticated operations on earth, and they have implemented them in an environment that makes sense and they control - right down to the route. So it maybe works for them? We shall see long term, but there city application is quite different than a general contractor. Maybe someday, just not today.

 

[Torrid]

I am right because the people that managed these fleets of commercial trucks voted with there wallet, and the Lightning is no more and the CT is holding on due to ego. If they were so awesome they would have been adopted. These people are 100% about ROI, so they would use a flying saucer if it were better.

My conversation was with a poster discussing the feasibility of using an EV for commercial applications. The people who actually spend the money chose something else. Sure, there were a few outliers, but it was not successful.

Amazon has a pretty good fleet of EV's. There 100% controlled with telemetry, there one of the most sophisticated operations on earth, and they have implemented them in an environment that makes sense and they control - right down to the route. So it maybe works for them? We shall see long term, but there city application is quite different than a general contractor. Maybe someday, just not today.

The product matters, 100%. Rivian built a vehicle to fit the needs specifically to what Amazon needed and that has been successful. I don't think the Lightning is one size fits all for anyone and while it drives nice and my company has a fleet of them, they're not perfect for every use. We just use them as a pickup truck to get over rough terrain with gear to get crews around to move trains, not towing.

 

[Brons2]

Much like those who are emotionally invested in EV's perhaps?

If you want to start a contracting company and do it out of an EV pickup - feel free. I see guys around here working out of minivan's with a dozen ladders strapped to the roof. I give them great credit for just getting it done.

Emotionally invested? I'm not sure how you quantify that.

Irritated at the constant barrage of comments from ICE advocates with zero personal experience with these vehicles, both on BITOG and other places like social media? Absolutely. Why would one not find garbage like that irritating? Does that make one emotionally invested? I would find someone talking garbage about any topic, not just vehicles, that they had zero personal experience with to be irritating.

I can respect people who have done the math and stated that an EV would not work for their personal use case. Nothing wrong with that.

But for people who are constantly moving the goal posts, and regurgitating stuff they heard on social media or biased websites, for whom an EV would actually work better, well, it's a bit abrasive to hear. Does that make me "emotionally invested"? You tell me.

 

[Brons2]

I am right because the people that managed these fleets of commercial trucks voted with there wallet, and the Lightning is no more and the CT is holding on due to ego.

Commercial fleet managers have no more experience with these vehicles than the general public does. Bias is inherent. At some point, for use cases that work with EV trucks, they will be forced to look at it due to the lower costs of electricty and lower maintenance costs.

Ford is restarting Lightning production on January 7th. I can't divulge my source, so don't ask.

Can't comment on the fate of the CT, it is still too expensive, for it to make sense they need to lower the cost of entry.

 

[JeffKeryk]

A real issue with EVs is their value drops like a rock, and the good ones ain't cheap. But that is true of most new products. The IBM PC cost like $4000 when it came out in the early 1980s, when that was a ton of money. Big screen TVs?

As an early adopter, I knew this was part of the deal. Improvements have been constant, so why buy an early car?
I used to consider our '18 Model 3 a toy; I was wrong. For the right use case (like any other car), EVs can be amazing. And will get more so as time goes by.

Regarding fleet use in business; there is a use case but it is too early in the EV timeline. Did we expect companies to dump all their F-150s and buy Lightnings? In fact, so many of the thoughts and predictions of EVs taking over the planet were far too aggressive.

 

[Brons2]

Regarding fleet use in business; there is a use case but it is too early in the EV timeline. Did we expect companies to dump all their F-150s and buy Lightnings? In fact, so many of the thoughts and predictions of EVs taking over the planet were far too aggressive.

The reasons they won't work for everyone area getting fewer and fewer by the day. Dozens of new NEVI L3 chargers are coming on board every month. Battery prices are continuing to decrease. Charging rates are continuing to improve. Range is contining to improve. More power generation is coming on line. Grid level battery storage is getting cheaper.

The US will probably be a straggler as compared to the global marketplace. The car market is globally interconnected though, so we won't be able to hold out forever.

 

[Torrid]

Emotionally invested? I'm not sure how you quantify that.

Irritated at the constant barrage of comments from ICE advocates with zero personal experience with these vehicles, both on BITOG and other places like social media? Absolutely. Why would one not find garbage like that irritating? Does that make one emotionally invested? I would find someone talking garbage about any topic, not just vehicles, that they had zero personal experience with to be irritating.

I can respect people who have done the math and stated that an EV would not work for their personal use case. Nothing wrong with that.

But for people who are constantly moving the goal posts, and regurgitating stuff they heard on social media or biased websites, for whom an EV would actually work better, well, it's a bit abrasive to hear. Does that make me "emotionally invested"? You tell me.

This. Some result to personal attacks over this stuff just because they don't like my choice of vehicle. Some of what happens on here is relatively mild compared to what some people say that I work with. I don't get what is wrong with people and why they feel so attacked by a battery powered car and have to find some way to denigrate it. Is it because it's the latest and greatest thing and they have to show why they aren't getting one?

 

[SC Maintenance]

Commercial fleet managers have no more experience with these vehicles than the general public does. Bias is inherent.

Have you managed a commercial fleet?

 

[JeffKeryk]

The US will probably be a straggler as compared to the global marketplace. The car market is globally interconnected though, so we won't be able to hold out forever.

I'm sure some areas will lag, but not around here. Efficiency is a big deal and is welcomed.

 

[JeffKeryk]

It seems EVs bring out the best in people...

 

[Brons2]

Have you managed a commercial fleet?

Before my big tech pivot in the 90s, I worked in a city fleet maintenance department for a couple of summers, talking late 80s early 90s here, because I had been in shop class in high school and had good mechanical skills. This was subseuqent to doing apprentice work in a machine shop, hey I bounced around a lot as a teenager and young adult. While in this role, I had a first hand view of fleet acquisitions. It wasn't done by price, or technical merit. The fleet manager bought what he wanted to buy, because he'd always bought Brand X. The purchasing rules gave him latitude to puchase by best price or best value. The local dealer knew it and he was always undercut by Brands Y and Z. It didn't matter. The fleet manager bought what he thought was best.

Maybe this experience colored my evaluation of what you describe excessively. Could be. I remember being disgusted at the time about the whole deal, my first real experience with what I viewed as entrenched incompetent people in government. I knew we could work on any brand, and if we needed something like machine work, it was going to go to 1 of 2 shops in town, who worked on all brands every day. But the one guy in charge, his judgement was not to be questioned.

Later I decided to move to Austin and go to college after dinking around at Juco football and doing pretty well grades wise, that turned out to be a good decision.

Honestly, it's not that different in tech. "Nobody ever got fired for buying Cisco" or "Nobody ever got fired for buying Intel" is a real thing. The battery in my laptop lasts barely more than an hour, Dell Precision 3570, 10 core/12 thread. I'd like to try a Snapdragon X Elite 18 core ARM laptop instead, but nobody's going to approve that.

The incumbent vendor always has a big advantage in any particular technological area, unless they have a big failing that comes into view. Humans are super risk averse in general. They are loath to go away from something they know that works, even if something else is demonstrably better.

Whether EVs are that thing that is demonstrably better, depends on your viewpoint. I can say for sure which way the local Amazon and Walmart fleet managers have gone. I haven't seen an Amazon ICE van in a year, for example. And I see Amazon pretty much every day on my street.

Anyway....moving on....

 

[rszappa1]

Looks like Ford will be laying off 1600 workers at the new battery plant in Glendale KY....

 

[JeffKeryk]

Lightning initial demand was strong but tapered off. Production costs remained high. Models cost more than planned.
Ford's move is simply following customer demand, and reflecting the reality that the Lightning was a money-loser, and Ford, concluded, it always would be.

I lament their loss, but applaud Ford's integrity. At least compared to other car companies...

 

[OFFRD]

Looks like Ford will be laying off 1600 workers at the new battery plant in Glendale KY....

Yep the taxpayers here are PISSED. Our liberal governor gave Ford hundreds of millions in forgivable loans and now we're hosed on the deal. They've decided to convert the plant to make batteries for data centers or something like that.

Ford also announced that the F-150 Lighting is DEAD, the "T3" replacement for Lightning is DEAD, and the next gen truck will be EREV instead. They are already facing a lawsuit from suppliers over the delays to the next gen BEV truck, now it's going to be a drawn out court battle.

 

[Brons2]

Ford is restarting Lightning production on January 7th. I can't divulge my source, so don't ask.

Never mind this, obviously Ford announced later in the day that the Lightning was canceled. They also announced an EREV based Lightning, which I will not consider most likely unless the battery is much larger than I am expecting it to be. I want 100 miles of EV only range, otherwise I'm getting a Cybertruck next time.

 

[alarmguy]

This. Some result to personal attacks over this stuff just because they don't like my choice of vehicle. Some of what happens on here is relatively mild compared to what some people say that I work with. I don't get what is wrong with people and why they feel so attacked by a battery powered car and have to find some way to denigrate it. Is it because it's the latest and greatest thing and they have to show why they aren't getting one?

I agree it’s crazy. When was the last time you saw somebody getting trashed because they had a four-cylinder engine and someone else had a six cylinder engine? Or someone has a V8 hemi versus a six cylinder.
Electric vehicles are no different, it’s just a car with a different engine.

Human beings are defective by nature. Quite scary when you really think about it.
By the way, I use those words all the time every time I read the news. We are a screwed up species

 

[Brons2]

I agree it’s crazy. When was the last time you saw somebody getting trashed because they had a four-cylinder engine and someone else had a six cylinder engine? Or someone has a V8 hemi versus a six cylinder.
Electric vehicles are no different, it’s just a car with a different engine.

Human beings are defective by nature. Quite scary when you really think about it.
By the way, I use those words all the time every time I read the news. We are a screwed up species

A lot of people seem to think they live in an accountablity free zone.

That said I get more curiosity than negative comments. In fact I can't recall ever getting any negative comments, although I have gotten a few retorts that "my vehicle can do X". My brother in law told me his Ram can get 700 miles of range. I told him it didn't matter for my usage, because neither my arse nor my bladder have 700 miles of range.

My days of iron butt road trips are behind me. 3 hours is about my max between stops.

 

[JeffKeryk]

I agree it’s crazy. When was the last time you saw somebody getting trashed because they had a four-cylinder engine and someone else had a six cylinder engine? Or someone has a V8 hemi versus a six cylinder.
Electric vehicles are no different, it’s just a car with a different engine.

Human beings are defective by nature. Quite scary when you really think about it.
By the way, I use those words all the time every time I read the news. We are a screwed up species

Well said AG.
But Elon's still wack, right?

 

[alarmguy]

Well said AG.
But Elon's still wack, right?

I did say we are screwed up species, didn’t I?
In all seriousness, though, I might find the prospect of possibly having and holding an interest in Starlink … so I don’t think he’s that crazy