Big Ford EV Announcement Coming Aug 11th

[GrumpyCat]

They can obviously be recycled, but its far more expensive than just mining new materials.

Or cheaper. A used battery is 1000x richer source of raw materials than ore from a mine.

And the materials in the battery are not consumed.

 

[demarpaint]

You didn't answer. And in doing so did answer that your brother doesn't know Jack.

I am a retired engineer for whom my daily driver has been an EV for 12 years. Often eat lunch with a manager who works for the local electric utility. "What is the big problem with EVs on the grid? Not knowing when 250 kW loads will suddenly appear." He said looking at the raw data for my account he can't really see the EV. Looks too much like a heat pump.

LOL. Interesting, especially since you don't know my brother or much about the NY grid. Best we stop here or one of us is going to get booted, since you're quick with dishing out insults this thread can take an ugly turn.

 

[OVERKILL]

No. Those darned innovative capitalists will find ways to make money off used and depleted batteries.

Oh wait, they are doing that right now, if you'd bother to search.

One of the greatest utilizations of a used EV battery is to repurpose for home energy storage. An EV battery with 50% of it's original capacity simply has less energy density than it used to have, otherwise works just fine. Usually only one module goes sour so disassembly of the battery yields a number of high capacity modules to build home energy storage.

I think there's some genuine concern to be had for this process when it isn't with LiFe batteries, as most lithium-based batteries get more prone to shorting and producing fires as they age and dendrites form, and that's certainly not something you want happening in your home. A robust BMS would be an absolute must in this usage case, as well as a containment system that prevents fire spread in the case of an event. From a reuse perspective, it's absolutely the "right thing", as avoiding disposal is key to reducing the overall lifecycle emissions of the product.

 

[GrumpyCat]

I think there's some genuine concern to be had for this process when it isn't with LiFe batteries, as most lithium-based batteries get more prone to shorting and producing fires as they age and dendrites form, and that's certainly not something you want happening in your home. A robust BMS would be an absolute must in this usage case, as well as a containment system that prevents fire spread in the case of an event. From a reuse perspective, it's absolutely the "right thing", as avoiding disposal is key to reducing the overall lifecycle emissions of the product.

I don't see any but Chinese batteries catching on fire.

 

[OVERKILL]

I don't see any but Chinese batteries catching on fire.

Are you including grid-scale battery fires (of which there are many examples)? How about Samsung's phone battery fires? GM's recall of the Chevy Bolt (for fires)?

Yes, Chinese batteries (and in particular cheap Chinese goods using Chinese batteries like e-bikes/scooters...etc) are the most numerous in their examples, but the risk exists with all the major lithium-based chemistries (considerably less for LiFe as noted) and aged batteries present higher risk than new batteries (due to dendrite formation for example), so one needs to be even more careful, and take greater precautions when repurposing cells, particularly when they will be co-located with a huge number of other cells, and placed inside a domicile.

 

[GrumpyCat]

Are you including grid-scale battery fires (of which there are many examples)? How about Samsung's phone battery fires? GM's recall of the Chevy Bolt (for fires)?

OK, Chinese and Korean batteries.

Yes, Chinese batteries (and in particular cheap Chinese goods using Chinese batteries like e-bikes/scooters...etc) are the most numerous in their examples, but the risk exists with all the major lithium-based chemistries (considerably less for LiFe as noted) and aged batteries present higher risk than new batteries (due to dendrite formation for example), so one needs to be even more careful, and take greater precautions when repurposing cells, particularly when they will be co-located with a huge number of other cells, and placed inside a domicile.

But somehow Tesla manages to produce safe batteries.

 

[OVERKILL]

OK, Chinese and Korean batteries.


But somehow Tesla manages to produce safe batteries.

Tesla's grid storage batteries have had a considerable number of fires, and their cars aren't without fires.

Speaking of grid-scale battery fires, Moss Landing has caught fire numerous times at this point. The Elkhorn expansion (Tesla batteries) caught fire in 2022. After the subsequent 2025 fire in Stage 1 (LG batteries), all of the batteries were taken offline. Elkhorn is still not back in service.

- The Victoria "Big Battery" in Australia (Tesla batteries) caught fire in 2021.
- A mobile Supercharger w/MegaPack in California caught fire in 2023.
- A Powerwall caught fire in a garage in California in 2023
- The Bouldercombe battery in Australia (Tesla batteries) caught fire in 2023.
- The Tilburg battery in the Netherlands (Tesla batteries) caught fire in 2025.

 

[GrumpyCat]

Tesla's grid storage batteries have had a considerable number of fires, and their cars aren't without fires.

Speaking of grid-scale battery fires, Moss Landing has caught fire numerous times at this point. The Elkhorn expansion (Tesla batteries) caught fire in 2022. After the subsequent 2025 fire in Stage 1 (LG batteries), all of the batteries were taken offline. Elkhorn is still not back in service.

- The Victoria "Big Battery" in Australia (Tesla batteries) caught fire in 2021.
- A mobile Supercharger w/MegaPack in California caught fire in 2023.
- A Powerwall caught fire in a garage in California in 2023
- The Bouldercombe battery in Australia (Tesla batteries) caught fire in 2023.
- The Tilburg battery in the Netherlands (Tesla batteries) caught fire in 2025.

Name a Walmart which hasn't eventually "had a fire."

 

[OVERKILL]

Name a Walmart which hasn't eventually "had a fire."

Eh, that's pretty weak.

I said the risk of battery fires is real, advocating for a safety-based approach when it comes to recycling them. You said you don't see anything but Chinese batteries catching fire, revising that to Chinese and Korean when I gave a couple of examples, and noting that Tesla was, in your mind, an exception.

I've now provided numerous examples of Tesla battery fires (the most concerning being the grid-scale battery fires, given the small number of projects they've been used in), which refutes your claims here and bolsters my argument that any sort of battery recycling program, which I support, and I've been clear on that, needs to ensure that the batteries are sufficiently contained so that in the event of a fire, we aren't burning people's houses down. This is not an unreasonable position.

 

[97prizm]

Tesla is struggling in EU and BYD is gaining ground.

I read in Japlonik recently that EVs have not gained as much traction as expected so far.

Musk Ticked off Norway which bought ALOT of Teslas. He criticized their strong union stance which bit him in the rear. Tesla employees in Norway stopped delivering vehicles and refused to drive them off the cargo ships. EV sales have dipped in some EU countries. In fact in the UK auto makers have sold record numbers of suvs ticking off lawmakers etc.

 

[97prizm]

there's ord says a big EV related announcement is coming August 11th. New models and platforms it sounds like

“Speaking on an earnings call on July 30, Farley revealed to investors that the company is planning to announce a new EV strategy in August, which will help position the brand against competition from Chinese automakers.”

“On Aug. 11, that will be a big day for all of us at Ford," Farley said on the call. "We will be in Kentucky to share more about our plans to design and build a breakthrough electric vehicle and a platform in the U.S. This is a Model-T moment for us at Ford. A chance to bring a new family of vehicles to the world that offer incredible technology, efficiency, space, and features.”
https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a65563894/ford-breakthrough-ev-announcement-coming/

There's been speculation but from reading Ford is building a midsized ev truck and some hint it might be called the Ranchero from the models past. Hopefully with a denser battery. Rumors floating around are that Tesla too is looking to build a small to midsize truck as the Cybertruck hasn't quite caught on.

 

[GrumpyCat]

I've now provided numerous examples of Tesla battery fires (the most concerning being the grid-scale battery fires, given the small number of projects they've been used in), which refutes your claims here and bolsters my argument that any sort of battery recycling program, which I support, and I've been clear on that, needs to ensure that the batteries are sufficiently contained so that in the event of a fire, we aren't burning people's houses down. This is not an unreasonable position.

Numerous sources find the probability of a Tesla fire is equal or less than that of a gasoline fire in an ICE. Mean old dangerous gasoline! Properly handled is perfectly safe. Just as with lithium-ion batteries.

Millions of Teslas on the road, there will be a few fires. Just as with 4500 Walmarts in the USA some will have visits by fire trucks.

 

[GrumpyCat]

Musk Ticked off Norway which bought ALOT of Teslas. He criticized their strong union stance which bit him in the rear. Tesla employees in Norway stopped delivering vehicles and refused to drive them off the cargo ships. EV sales have dipped in some EU countries. In fact in the UK auto makers have sold record numbers of suvs ticking off lawmakers etc.

Norway's loss.

 

[OVERKILL]

Numerous sources find the probability of a Tesla fire is equal or less than that of a gasoline fire in an ICE. Mean old dangerous gasoline! Properly handled is perfectly safe. Just as with lithium-ion batteries.

That doesn't address my point.

We don't routinely take 10+ year old automotive electrical systems (the source of most ICE vehicle fires) and put them in our basements tethered to 10's of thousands of BTU of self-oxidizing fuel. But this is exactly what we are doing with EV battery recycling, which is why, as I've said several times now, there needs to be a safety-centric approach to this process that prevents us from incinerating entire families in the event thermal runaway happens. And these events DO happen. And they are considerably harder to manage than your typical ICE vehicle electrical fire, or even a gasoline fire.

Millions of Teslas on the road, there will be a few fires. Just as with 4500 Walmarts in the USA some will have visits by fire trucks.

Only a handful of grid-scale battery projects, with a significant number of fires.

There is a considerable difference between an EV catching fire underway, on a highway, vs the battery pack from said EV in your basement, past its useful end of life in transportation service, so more likely to experience a failure, burning down your house, potentially with you and your family in it.

This hand waving doesn't further the conversation.

Again, I'm quite pro recycling, but we need to ensure this is done safely so that we don't needlessly create tragedy.

 

[Ws6]

That doesn't address my point.

We don't routinely take 10+ year old automotive electrical systems (the source of most ICE vehicle fires) and put them in our basements tethered to 10's of thousands of BTU of self-oxidizing fuel. But this is exactly what we are doing with EV battery recycling, which is why, as I've said several times now, there needs to be a safety-centric approach to this process that prevents us from incinerating entire families in the event thermal runaway happens. And these events DO happen. And they are considerably harder to manage than your typical ICE vehicle electrical fire, or even a gasoline fire.


Only a handful of grid-scale battery projects, with a significant number of fires.

There is a considerable difference between an EV catching fire underway, on a highway, vs the battery pack from said EV in your basement, past its useful end of life in transportation service, so more likely to experience a failure, burning down your house, potentially with you and your family in it.

This hand waving doesn't further the conversation.

Again, I'm quite pro recycling, but we need to ensure this is done safely so that we don't needlessly create tragedy.

This is why I have a garage that is 50ft from my house. ICE and EV can burn. Why park a vessel full of inflammable liquid under or beside my bed? Why stuff a bunch of batteries there?

 

[PandaBear]

This is why I have a garage that is 50ft from my house. ICE and EV can burn. Why park a vessel full of inflammable liquid under or beside my bed? Why stuff a bunch of batteries there?

Because land is expensive and people like to live in single family home.

You can build them in mid-rise apartment with all sorts of safety mechanism, but many if not most Americans love to have walk in access to their car instead of going through elevator with stroller full of groceries or dolly at home.

I don't think people would get their house burn down that frequently but we are probably just past the learning curve of building batteries in scale for EV, and we still have some fire once in a while (I'm looking at you Hyundai). We will eventually get there and layer up safety mechanism, but it will still need redundancy before insurance companies practically ban them with premium increase like we have gotten from those wild fires.

 

[Ws6]

Because land is expensive and people like to live in single family home.

You can build them in mid-rise apartment with all sorts of safety mechanism, but many if not most Americans love to have walk in access to their car instead of going through elevator with stroller full of groceries or dolly at home.

I don't think people would get their house burn down that frequently but we are probably just past the learning curve of building batteries in scale for EV, and we still have some fire once in a while (I'm looking at you Hyundai). We will eventually get there and layer up safety mechanism, but it will still need redundancy before insurance companies practically ban them with premium increase like we have gotten from those wild fires.

My Toyota hybrid had a fire warning. My HMG ev didnt.