BG engine purge or Auto-rx?

[expat]

Originally Posted By: jonathag


Is it possible that today when I left the shop that a little sludge got caught in the sump screen so the light came on, then by pulling off and sitting for a while, that the sludge moved out the way or dissolved, so it's possible it may be ok to drive now?


That is what I was thinking.
If there was a screen on the end of the pick-up tube, it would be immersed in oil (and cleaner). A hole bunch of sludge may have quickly accumulated on the screen, then slowly dissolved in the oil.
You have nothing to loose, run the engine again, see what happens!
If all seems well, after a few hundred miles change the oil, Filter and MMO, and do it again.
Get AAA or free tow coverage!

 

[oilboy123]

My Dad bought a sludged up Dodge Caravan that I did two Auto-RX runs with. I should have changed the filters at shorter intervals. I did not realize how bad it was until I replaced the oil pan gasket.

Needless to say I am still trying to get the sludge out from not doing the RX in the proper way. If in doubt about sludge change a filter halfway through an RX clean, then cut it open so you know what you are dealing with. I am going on two years on the van and getting to the point of it being clean.
I don't think anything can clean as well or gently as RX. Running kerosene and solvent flushes scare me. If a bunch of junk gets loose and clogs the oil pick up you are screwed.

MMO is a good product, but not in the same league as Auto-RX. You will spend more with the RX but it will save time and get better results. It has worked for me in more than a couple of ways.

I will add the RX is good for breaking down the sludge so it can pass through the oil pump screen. I would not do quick flushes because of the chance of clogging things up with the screen.

 

[Familyguy]

Originally Posted By: jonathag
I guess I don't understand. Why would he have to switch out or change the oil pressure switch? It's obvious there is a sludge in the engine and that is what is causing the light to come on, right? And he did clean the screen, twice. Or is there two screens-one sump and one on the pickup tube?

He put a new OEM pcv valve on.

I still don't get it, why did alot of people say DON'T DO AN ENGINE PURGE OR FLUSH BECAUSE YOU'LL BREAK UP THE SLUDGE TOO FAST, but then people say to clean the sludge out of the valves manually--don't you break up more sludge by cleaning the valves??

I guess my question now is, if I do the flushes myself, should I just flush the [censored] out of it with as many chemicals as I can get my hands on? Or just drive it around town and not out of town and see if I can get a few miles out of it with the pennzoil and mmo in it?

Is it possible that today when I left the shop that a little sludge got caught in the sump screen so the light came on, then by pulling off and sitting for a while, that the sludge moved out the way or dissolved, so it's possible it may be ok to drive now? Or by the light coming on is it just hosed up for good? Can I expect the light to come on every once in a while anyway now since the pennzoil and mmo are cleaning things up?

If the screen is clogged up again, will the chemicals clean or dissolve the sludge that is clogging up the screen? or will the screen need to be removed again? If I don't have to remove the screen, then I can do the flushes myself at home and save myself money and downtime without a car.

Thanks for the advice on the oil filters, I'll look those up, there is a Fram TG or XG or there now, can't remember which one.


My bad, I didn't catch the fact that the screen had already been cleaned. If you're getting a low oil pressure warning, that generally means one or more of these:

1. bad oil pump
2. clogged pickup tube screen
3. heavy sludge (atherosclerosis of the oil passages, if you will)
4. false positive due to defective pressure switch

If it was me, I'd try to eliminate them in order of the PITA factor. First I'd check the actual oil pressure with a gauge to make sure the warning is legit. If it is, I'd drop the pan and probably change the oil pump and while I was at it, I'd pop the valve cover(s) and I'd do my best to clean the whole mess with mechanical means (scraper, wire brush, etc). If it turns out you've got good oil pressure, then you just replace the switch. That's a 5-10 minute job with a cheap replacement part. If I had decent oil pressure, I'd do the 1qt MMO + any decent motor oil (PP is definitely good) and drive it for 750-1000 miles and then change the oil/filter. Depending on the filth that comes out at that juncture, I'd either do the same again or cut the MMO to 16oz and do a normal oil change interval. Finally, after all that, I'd stick with a quality synthetic (like Pennzoil Platinum) and get on with life. What I would NOT do is drive the car around hoping some chemical will unclog things without first verifying that I had decent oil pressure first.

Lastly, using those 10 minute flushes isn't a big deal and the odds of you hurting your engine are remote and usually overblown in this forum. You could always precede the above advice with trying that first. Just don't drive the car around with that stuff in the oil. Add it, let the engine idle for 10-15 minutes, then dump it.

I wouldn't pro-actively swap engines when this could be as simple as a defective oil pressure switch or worn out oil pump.

Good luck.

 

[demarpaint]

Family guy makes some good points. The bearings could be bad as well. I would give MMO a shot. MMO will really disolve the junk vs it breaking off in chunks. The filters will have to be closely monitored. There is also the possibility the oil pressure sender is bad, and/or the oil pump. For an engine to develop this much sludge the odds of it being in pristine condition are slim IMO. So expect some difficulties in cleaning it up.

I would definately get a mechanical OP gauge reading and know exactly what the oil pressure is. W/O knowing the cold and hot oil pressure you really are in the dark, and could be doing more harm than good. If the pump is bad [verified with mechanical gauge] I would drop the pan replace it. Then have another go at hand cleaning as much junk out again as possible, then proceed with the MMO cleaning. JMO

 

[Boss302fan]

MMO. Just do it!

 

[expat]

Is there an 'in engine' oil Bypass valve in this engine?
Could it have crud holding it open?

 

[wiswind]

The oil filter that is called for is one with a bypass.....so I am thinking that the 1MZ-FE motor does not have one.

They changed the PCV valve (I think sometime in the 2003 model year run) and they changed some baffels in the valve cover in July of 2001.

The way that the PCV system is set up in this motor the PCV valve is in the rear valve cover....passenger side and the fresh air intake to the crankcase is in the front valve cover, driver's side.
The intake is a nice big hose and opening.
So, this is why I stated that the PCV system should be a good one......as long as it is not clogged up.
If one found that the flow is not enough.....one could put a PCV valve in with greater flow.
Although.....more likely a problem with the PCV system would be getting clogged.

Now, his mechanic has cleaned out the oil pan and the top of the heads (under valve cover area) and I am hoping that the inside of the valve covers were also cleaned.

That is potentially a LOT of crud that no longer needs to be cleaned with the AutoRX, MMO and oil.

Having come this far......I think that the best thing would be to continue....and see what we get.
I think that the vehicle is "turning the corner".
In other words.....it is very likely that most of the work has already been done.

Frequent oil and filter changes for the next while.....and see what happens.

Of course.....it might be worth having the oil pressure checked at the test point (pressure switch location) to verify that it is within specifications might be a good idea.....and not too much $$$ to put that worry to bed.

 

[oilboy123]

+ 1 on checking oil pressure, as well as maybe changing the oil pump if the oil pressure is low. It's possible the oil screen clogged some and starved the oil pump and gave it some extra wear. It would be cheaper to install a new oil pump if the pressure is low than start assuming all the bearings are shot.

Putting a new oil sensor is not a bad idea.
It's also possible the oil pick up screen is getting clogged again. I would just be patient and work something like Auto-RX or MMO.

 

[jonathag]

Thanks again ya'll. I really do appreciate all of the advice and help.

Ok, so what I am thinking is to get a mechanical op gauge to make sure the op is ok. If it is ok, just run it for 500 miles or so (if she'll make it that long) and change the oil, use a conventional oil and mmo and an oversize filter for the next oc and change the oil every 500-1000 miles for the next 3-4 oc's. Hopefully the amount of [censored] that comes out in the oc's will be less and less so I can tell if it's doing any good.

My mechanic said, when we were talking about the op gauge, that it may not read the op correctly, since the op gauge is running off of the same relay (not the correct word I'm sure-but I can't remember what he called it) as the oil light, so if nothing is tripping the light to come on, then the pressure will read fine when it may not be. But I am hearing something different from you all. Is the op gauge installed in such a way that even if the oil light is not coming on, that I will be able to get an accurate reading of the op?

And is the op gauge easy to install? I am fairly mechanical, but by no means a mechanic!

 

[demarpaint]

The oil pressure gauge is connected in the hole that the oil sending unit is in. The oil sending unit is removed and the op gauge installed in its place. He is not installing an electric gauge, it is a mechanical gauge that reads exact pressure. When the test is done he removes it and puts the oil sending unit back in the car. Make sure he takes a cold reading and then a reading when the engine is hot, and has been driven for at least half an hour. A good mechanic will know how to do the test. He should check the pressure hot at different engine speeds as well as when it idles. If the oil pressure is good then the sending unit is probably bad.

The readings are very important in determining what is wrong with the engine, or gauge/warning light.

 

[expat]

Originally Posted By: demarpaint
The oil pressure gauge is connected in the hole that the oil sending unit is in. The oil sending unit is removed and the op gauge installed in its place. He is not installing an electric gauge, it is a mechanical gauge that reads exact pressure. When the test is done he removes it and puts the oil sending unit back in the car. Make sure he takes a cold reading and then a reading when the engine is hot, and has been driven for at least half an hour. A good mechanic will know how to do the test. He should check the pressure hot at different engine speeds as well as when it idles. If the oil pressure is good then the sending unit is probably bad.

The readings are very important in determining what is wrong with the engine, or gauge/warning light.


You might want to remove the sending unit and install a 'T' adaptor, so you can have both the warning light and the mechanical gauge working permanently.
You could have the gauge hanging off the engine block (Like Harley riders do) or run a capillary tube and have the gauge in the car somewhere.
If you do loose oil pressure on the side of the road again, the gauge might be nice to tell you exactly 'what' is happening.

 

[wiswind]

I am going to stick with my recommendation of having the mechanic check the oil pressure......it is cheaper than buying a quality oil pressure gauge and the stuff to install it.
And.......the mechanic should know how to do the test properly.....to determine if the oil pressure is within specifications for the specific conditions that it is checked under.
The mechanic will most likely have suggestions of what to look at for causes of low oil pressure, if that is what they see.
First on the list for low oil pressure would be to verify that the pickup screen is clean and clear of crud.

As for the possibility of the oil pressure sensor switch being bad......it could have been some crud blocking the sensor port.
Of course......if the light comes on.....I would assume that it is correct...and the oil pressure is truely too low......because thinking otherwise could be very expensive!!!!
A "T" connector before the motor is clean......is a likely place for crud to become lodged also...........

If one wants to install a oil pressure gauge.....that is fine....but not as a substitute for having the mechanic check it....and they might be able to direct you to the best way to do the project on this particular motor.

In other words.....have the mechanic verify that the oil pressure is OK......then, if you want....install a oil pressure gauge for your own peace of mind.
I am thinking that, once you finish the cleaning process.....you will not be worried about the oil pressure.....there are too many other things to worry about and take up your attention while driving.

After the cleaning process is done......I would go to 5K mile oil changes using a quality synthetic oil.
That will get you many years of worry free service out of this motor.
At this point.....I am still optomistic about the outcome.

 

[expat]

OK
I'm sure your engine will have a bypass valve. This will limit pressure that your pump will attain at a cold start on a cold day. Oil that meets too much resistance coming from the pump, will build pressure until (at perhaps 100 psi) it will be directed back into the oil pan. if this valve was stuck open?...
But that CAN be determined by an oil pressure gauge.
The Gold standard of oil pressure in 'most' engines is 10 psi for every 1000 rpm, when hot.
With the addition of MMO, your pressure MAY be a little on the low side. That is to be expected.
Mechanical gauges, especially if just installed on the engine block are very inexpensive and reliable.
There is no real movement of oil to a pressure gauge or an Idiot light switch. Blockage is unlikely.


I too feel optermistic for you

 

[jonathag]

Hey everyone,

Well a quick update and question. My car has been in my garage since last Friday when I picked it up from my mechanic, I had a 1000 mile driving week at work so I couldn't really trust it. I took it out last night and drove it a little over 50 miles and it was fine, no oil light and it drove great, oil level was fine.

I took it over to my Mom's house, I was going to drive her old Camry and she was going to drive my car to work for the next week or two in town just so we can keep my car moving and being cleaned out.

My car sat out in the cold all night at her house, she got in this morning and the oil light was on quite a bit from the 'get go'

I told her to NOT drive with the light on and she says she only drove it a couple of minutes with it on, she said it kept coming on and going off real quick, but then stayed on for a couple of minutes, so she turned the car off and back on, then it was ok and the light was off until she got to work.

Could it have been just because the car sat out in the cold all night instead of being in the garage? Because it drove great for me for the 50+ miles I drove it last night, but it had not been in as much cold since it had been in my garage all week. My garage isn't heated or anything, but it's warmer than outside.

 

[expat]

What were the findings of your mechanic re; oil pressure readings?

Other than Flashing oil pressure lights, it seems you don't know what the heck is happening.
Is the pressure consistently low (bordering on the light coming on)? Or does it fluctuate Normal to Low?

I would feel uncomfortable to drive even a minute or two with the light on.

 

[Boss302fan]

Are you 100% sure that the oil light is working correctly? If you get it cleaned up, I would think it could be the pump that is starting to fail.

 

[expat]

Perhaps, you drove your 50 miles on the Freeway at 2000 + revs.
Your mother drove around town at (or close) to Idle, or at low RPM and saw the oil light flicker?

 

[jonathag]

Yes, I don't know what the heck is going on, that's why I'm asking on this forum

I did drive last night up and down the freeway at 60-70mph, my Mom was driving slower in town.

My mechanic hasn't checked the oil pressure. I just have had no time to get it back into the shop.

 

[expat]

Originally Posted By: jonathag
Yes, I don't know what the heck is going on, that's why I'm asking on this forum

I did drive last night up and down the freeway at 60-70mph, my Mom was driving slower in town.

My mechanic hasn't checked the oil pressure. I just have had no time to get it back into the shop.


The oil pressure light does not really give you (or me) , much information. That's why they are often referred to a 'Idiot Lights'
I don't know your engine, but it would typically take 2 minutes to screw a $5 pressure gauge into the block.

 

[jonathag]

Does anyone know if using engine purge/flush additives will also clean the screen if it's gunked up? Or would I still need to take the screen out and have it cleaned if I purge/flush the engine?