Best o.t.c. conventional
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VaderSS: Now Vader, you know your Daddy makes a better product than the others
Am I correct in assuming that Pennzoil, Conoco, Chevron Supreme, Havoline are all about equivalent? Close, but no. The refinery where your dad works produces a Group II+ base stock, the Chevron refineries produce Group II base stocks. The Group II+ is a little more severly hydrocracked.
Is Motorcraft manufactured to the same specs as Pennzoil/Conoco? Base stock only. All three use a different additive package.
Are there other dino oils that use Group II+ base stocks? As for as I know, no. The refinery where your dad works is the only refinery in the country that produces Group II+ (unless Exxon/Mobil or Chevron have done a major upgrade that no one knows about.
Are all Group II and Group II+ hydrocracked? Yes.
[ June 14, 2002, 08:32 PM: Message edited by: Johnny ]
Am I correct in assuming that Pennzoil, Conoco, Chevron Supreme, Havoline are all about equivalent? Close, but no. The refinery where your dad works produces a Group II+ base stock, the Chevron refineries produce Group II base stocks. The Group II+ is a little more severly hydrocracked.
Is Motorcraft manufactured to the same specs as Pennzoil/Conoco? Base stock only. All three use a different additive package.
Are there other dino oils that use Group II+ base stocks? As for as I know, no. The refinery where your dad works is the only refinery in the country that produces Group II+ (unless Exxon/Mobil or Chevron have done a major upgrade that no one knows about.
Are all Group II and Group II+ hydrocracked? Yes.
[ June 14, 2002, 08:32 PM: Message edited by: Johnny ]
Patman
Staff member
Have any of you guys heard of Cam2 motor oil? It was a popular dino oil up here in Canada for a while, the Sunoco stations used to sell it. I put it in one of my earlier cars and I swore it felt like the engine ran smoother, but it could've been my imagination. I always wondered back then if it was some sort of semi synthetic or if it was all conventional. This was in the late 80s/early 90s.
I thought so, just trying to get everything straight.
This is really a great forum.
Cam2 has been around for years. I consider it an average OTC oil, available at some discount/auto parts stores. Go to www.cam2.com
In comparing Chevron Supreme to Havoline, check the label to see who makes it. This has something to do with the Chevron Buyout of Texaco and Texaco having to sell Shell their stake in Equilon. They had to sell it with the formulas. So if the Havoline is made by Equilon, it is the old formula. If is made by Chevron, it is the new formula.
Widman: The label on my Texaco Havoline 5W-30 Qt. bottle says,-- distributed by Equlion Enterprises.
The label also says this oil has been reformulated to offer improved fuel economy and this new formulation utilizes highly refined (Group II )base oils.
So am I to understand I have the old formula?
Bill
The label also says this oil has been reformulated to offer improved fuel economy and this new formulation utilizes highly refined (Group II )base oils.
So am I to understand I have the old formula?
Bill
Bill: Most consumers would never think to ask the question you did. Let me see if I can help with an answer. Equlion was a joint venture with Shell and Texaco. Chevron wanted to buy Texaco (mainly for the fuel end of it). Shell said okay, but we keep the formula's for all of the Texaco lubricating products. In other words, you can have the name, but not the product. I believe Shell has an agreement where they can actually package and sell the Havoline name oils for another 18 months. I might be a little off on the timeline.
Texaco use to have a diesel engine oil called Texaco Ursa Super Plus, that product is now called Shell Rimula. Same product, different name. It is my opinion the Formula Shell passenger car oil in now the Texaco Havoline formula.
Whatever product is made by Chevron is not the same as it use to be.
So the bottom line is, you have purchased Havoline, blended and packaged by Shell.
Ain't this confusing?
Texaco use to have a diesel engine oil called Texaco Ursa Super Plus, that product is now called Shell Rimula. Same product, different name. It is my opinion the Formula Shell passenger car oil in now the Texaco Havoline formula.
Whatever product is made by Chevron is not the same as it use to be.
So the bottom line is, you have purchased Havoline, blended and packaged by Shell.
Ain't this confusing?
Johnny:--Widman: About the last post by each of you,somehow I feel you are not in agreement with each other. Will you each please respond again and tell how or if you differ?
Johnny,you are correct it is confusing to me anyway as to what formula is in a bottle of Havoline oil. While in a Checker Auto Parts store today,I found on the same shelve Havoline 5W-30 distributed by Equilon Enterprises--and Havoline 10W-30 by Chevron-Texaco
To escape my confusion I just bought Shevron Supreme 5W-30 to use in my next oil change.
Bill
Johnny,you are correct it is confusing to me anyway as to what formula is in a bottle of Havoline oil. While in a Checker Auto Parts store today,I found on the same shelve Havoline 5W-30 distributed by Equilon Enterprises--and Havoline 10W-30 by Chevron-Texaco
To escape my confusion I just bought Shevron Supreme 5W-30 to use in my next oil change.
Bill
Bill: I think Widman and I are probably in agreement, just worded differently.
Maybe there is some confusion in Old Formula and New Formula.
The old formula was the formula that Texaco used before Chevron bought them. And it is a very good product using Group II base stock. I sure the new formula (Whatever Chevron is blending now)is also a good oil. It could even be the same as the Chevron, though I doubt it. It also is a Group II.
So, the bottle that says Equilon on it is blended and packaged by Shell, and the one with Chevron-Texaco on it, is blended and packaged by Chevron.
Two completely different formulations and both good oils.
Maybe there is some confusion in Old Formula and New Formula.
The old formula was the formula that Texaco used before Chevron bought them. And it is a very good product using Group II base stock. I sure the new formula (Whatever Chevron is blending now)is also a good oil. It could even be the same as the Chevron, though I doubt it. It also is a Group II.
So, the bottle that says Equilon on it is blended and packaged by Shell, and the one with Chevron-Texaco on it, is blended and packaged by Chevron.
Two completely different formulations and both good oils.
I have a comment regarding the use of 10W-30 over 5W-30...
it will void Ford's warranty for new modular engines.
I spoke to several Ford powertrain engineers and folks who work with high performance modular setups. They all agreed that 5W-30 was the BEST oil to use with these higher-tech motors.
I believe the reasoning was that w/ the smaller oil passages, much tighter tolerances, and because of the OHC design that 5W-30 would flow faster to reach all rotating parts that require lubrication.
There are some modular engine owners that go so far as using 0W-30 synthetic... then again some ppl just pour in 10W-40 dino every 2500 miles
but the engineers all say 5W-30 (and these guys are true gearheads!! you should see what they'd produce if it weren't for marketing and accounting at Ford)
it will void Ford's warranty for new modular engines.
I spoke to several Ford powertrain engineers and folks who work with high performance modular setups. They all agreed that 5W-30 was the BEST oil to use with these higher-tech motors.
I believe the reasoning was that w/ the smaller oil passages, much tighter tolerances, and because of the OHC design that 5W-30 would flow faster to reach all rotating parts that require lubrication.
There are some modular engine owners that go so far as using 0W-30 synthetic... then again some ppl just pour in 10W-40 dino every 2500 miles
but the engineers all say 5W-30 (and these guys are true gearheads!! you should see what they'd produce if it weren't for marketing and accounting at Ford)
Patman
Staff member
Does Ford realize that a good 10w30 synthetic will flow just as fast on a cold start, if not faster than a poor 5w30 dino oil will? And at operating temperature they will be similar in viscosity (although 5w30 will thin out faster in a lot of cases)
[ September 14, 2002, 06:33 AM: Message edited by: Patman ]
[ September 14, 2002, 06:33 AM: Message edited by: Patman ]
I just know almost everyone with a 400+ hp supercharged modular Stang will still continue to use 5W-30 over any other oil weight.
I know of a guy with a 450 hp blown T-bird (95) that is close friends with a former Ford powertrain engineer and will not use anything other than 10W-30.
My friend is Los Angeles ran Mobil 1 5W-30 throughout the life of his 4.6L SOHC V8 (about 200,000 miles) and when he tore it apart to modify it at the end, the engine looked brand new.
I think the absolute need to use 10W-30 in the modular engine is uncessary. In fact, the thinner 5W-30 might be more beneficial. Yes some dept's use 15W-40 or what not in their cop cars but ever notice how cop cars start blowing out blue smoke?
Here's a tip: don't buy any used 98-up cop cars unless you want to spend $$$$$ on repairs.
I know of a guy with a 450 hp blown T-bird (95) that is close friends with a former Ford powertrain engineer and will not use anything other than 10W-30.
My friend is Los Angeles ran Mobil 1 5W-30 throughout the life of his 4.6L SOHC V8 (about 200,000 miles) and when he tore it apart to modify it at the end, the engine looked brand new.
I think the absolute need to use 10W-30 in the modular engine is uncessary. In fact, the thinner 5W-30 might be more beneficial. Yes some dept's use 15W-40 or what not in their cop cars but ever notice how cop cars start blowing out blue smoke?
Here's a tip: don't buy any used 98-up cop cars unless you want to spend $$$$$ on repairs.
Back to the original question about what is the best OTC conventional, am I to understand the general concensus is, Havoline(Chevron/Texaco), Chevron Supreme, Pennzoil, Conoco, and Motorcraft?
Bill- Didn't see your post earlier...... Yes, Johnny and I are saying the same thing from different sides. Not that I have much inside information, but I do talk to the Texaco people as well as read the buletins.
As for Ford: Here they strictly insist on Chevron Supreme 5w30 in EVERYTHING. Compacts through Expeditions. I offered them 10w30 and they said no-way, not allowed. It's a great Group II+, and they have been happy with it for the year and a half or so that I have supplied them. They do take Delo for the diesels.
As for Ford: Here they strictly insist on Chevron Supreme 5w30 in EVERYTHING. Compacts through Expeditions. I offered them 10w30 and they said no-way, not allowed. It's a great Group II+, and they have been happy with it for the year and a half or so that I have supplied them. They do take Delo for the diesels.
I think with recent results the Mobil Drive Clean should be thrown in the mix along with the Drive Clean Blend @ $1.75 per quart. It is a true PAO blend unlike the others
Some unteststed oils
Phillips Trop Artic
Citgo
Amoco
Kendall
These might be some pretty good oils
I know that Kendall hase a Race Proven oil
Some unteststed oils
Phillips Trop Artic
Citgo
Amoco
Kendall
These might be some pretty good oils
I know that Kendall hase a Race Proven oil
I did not hear one person mention Castrol GTX. If you were to ask this question on some other boards(caranddriver.com, explorerforum.com, fordranger.com) that I used to hang out at, 9 out of 10 people would say Castrol GTX. I am not saying that it is a bad oil, I'm just proving that their marketing hype works. Personally, I have been trying to get some Chevron Supreme 5W30, but Wal-mart can't keep it on the shelves.
-Joe
If you can't get Chevron Supreme 5W-30, just find Pennzoil PureBase 5W-30 - you should be able to find it at Wal-Mart, albeit Chevron is less expensive.
Let me put it this way re: 5W-30/warranty.
my sources that recommend using 5W-30 could care less about Ford's warranty. These same sources state 5w-20 is for gas mileage and gas mileage ALONE. It will not protect your engine properly and should never be used in modern Ford V8s. Basically the Fords that have "5w-20 ONLY on the filler caps" should be using 5W-30, but yes, not using 5W-20 technically voids Ford's warranty on engines like 2001-up 4.6L SOHC V8s.... but why did these same sources say to use 5W-30? Even in high performance applications?
I'm not talking bone stock TDIs or 4-bangers or V6s...
I'm talking 400+ horsepower blown and NOS'd SOHC and DOHC 4.6L V8s that are street driven w/ 4.10s
Let me put it this way re: 5W-30/warranty.
my sources that recommend using 5W-30 could care less about Ford's warranty. These same sources state 5w-20 is for gas mileage and gas mileage ALONE. It will not protect your engine properly and should never be used in modern Ford V8s. Basically the Fords that have "5w-20 ONLY on the filler caps" should be using 5W-30, but yes, not using 5W-20 technically voids Ford's warranty on engines like 2001-up 4.6L SOHC V8s.... but why did these same sources say to use 5W-30? Even in high performance applications?
I'm not talking bone stock TDIs or 4-bangers or V6s...
I'm talking 400+ horsepower blown and NOS'd SOHC and DOHC 4.6L V8s that are street driven w/ 4.10s
Patman
Staff member
joee, I think Castrol GTX is a good oil, as a matter of fact it seems to perform better than their more costly Syntec!
Patman, I agree that Castrol is a good oil, you just don't hear many people on this board talking about it. Since I can't get Chevron Supreme at Walmart, I have been putting the 5 Quart container of Castrol GTX($8 US) in my Explorer with a Motorcraft FL 820-S filter. -Joe
Patman, I checked out your homepage, very nice. I knew that you were a Firebird/TA fan, but I had no idea that you were also a 5.0 Mustang fan. I used to own a 1990 5.0 LX convert, the limited edition that was green with the white top and white leather interior. -Joe
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