Best o.t.c. conventional

[Chris]

Is Chevron 5w-30 the best conventional oil? Do any analysis guys have anything info on it? Anyone with any long term experience with it? Just looking for a good conventional oil for my mother to request when she gets an oil change at Wal-mart. If this is not availible is Valvoline next best? And yes I would do it for her but she lives 500 miles away.

 

[Johnny]

Chris: You should get a lot of comments on this. My preference is neither one of these, but out of the two you questioned, I would say the Valvoline is better. If she is going to take it to a Wal-Mart, just have her use what ever brand they carry in bulk. This way she gets a good brand at their discounted price. Depending on where she lives, it will probably be Pennzoil, Quaker State, or Castrol. Any of these will work fine for her.

 

[TheLoneRanger]

I think since (almost) all oils are API rated, they are all probably about equal. That is, if they all have the same rating. In days past, my favorite was Kendall. These days, I tend to run Castrol GTX, because it's what is on sale at Wally World.

I still stay away from Pennzoil and Quaker State, for reasons I am not sure are correct; containing parrifin and sludge buildup....???

 

[Terry]

Chris, I haven't personally tested for this and please guys don't hold me to it; Since I was hired to test for auto-rx I have seen "reports" from customers who run regular(nonsyn) otc oils, with a 2 oz. load of auto-Rx and have absolutely positve results. Until I run a scientific test to show a change I can't say for certain it is meaningful or cost effective. Remember I hate additives and possibly changing the formulators chemistry but this product really doesn't change the oil at all in a negative way. Sorry bob I can't help myself.
The inventors who all have a chemistry background swear by this technique.
I have tested the new Chevron ISO-SYN product and it is solidly a good value. Texaco Havoline is good but low TBN.
Pennzoil is good and is comparable to Conoco hydroclear.
I haven't tested Quaker stuff in years(non syn).
Exxon superflo is good.
Valvoline is good but in the last tests the cold pumpability was still an issue, pre SL.

Thats all I'll give for free.

 

[Terry]

Well almost all, stick with a 10w-30 if your warranty allows it, less VI index improvers to burn up or polymerize.

 

[Johnny]

LoneRanger, this is not directed at you, but everyone that has ever said Pennzoil has wax. Please don't take offence to my comments. This is one of those rumors that started with someones grandfather's Model T. Don't use Pennzoil, it has wax in it. BS.

Okay, Pennzoil and Quaker State are made from pariffinic crude oil. Guess what, all conventional oils are made from pariffinic crude oil. End of that theory.

One of the first things that happens in the refining process is dewaxing. Why, oil would not flow in cold temp and the wax is worth more than the oil. For all you guys that are married or have girlfriends, listen up. If they use Revlon cosmetics, Chapstic, or Preperation H, they are using Pennzoil wax. If you mother or grand mother ever did any canning with wax, they probably used Pennzoil wax. If you have ever seen a cardboard box that was coated in wax, it was probably Pennzoil wax. You will see Pennzoil wax everywhere, except in the bottle of oil.

And I will assure you, with the new hydrocracking refinery in Louisiana, you will find absolutely no wax in the oils of today.

So much for wax. Oh, we make a pretty good baby oil also.

 

[Terry]

Johnny, We used Good Gulf wax to do our canning on the farm, but I waxeth too mucheth.

Goodnight.

 

[Johnny]

I forgot, I was talking about good southern waxing.

 

[Patman]

quote:

---

Originally posted by Terry:
Well almost all, stick with a 10w-30 if your warranty allows it, less VI index improvers to burn up or polymerize.

---

Here here! I constantly tell people to go with 10w30 over 5w30, and have gotten into arguments on the net over it. I even had one guy (who works for Imperial Oil even, although in the accounting end of things I believe) tell me that 5w30 offers more high temp protection than 10w30! What I don't like about 5w30 is that I feel it will thin out faster when those extra VI improvers break down.

 

[Chris]

Thanks for all the replies. Have seen others say to use or the do use the supertech (Walmart) oil but I know the conventional is made by Warren and would never see my car. Now the synthetic is made by Quaker state and is a maybe, any comments here? By the way Terry, I was hoping you would comment and we all appreciate your experience!

 

[csandste]

Warren?

SuperTech Oil is manufactured by PZ/QS. I got a datasheet from them. It's not as good as Pennzoil IMHO, but at least the equal of Quaker State. Personally I prefer using SuperTech over the bulk Wal-Mart oils (PZ and QS in my market) because it isn't bulk. I've seen pictures of some pretty crappy looking bulk oil tanks, and what exactly is in the bottom of some of them that they keep filling up?

This usually gets screwed up when I drop it from Excel into the clipboard, but it does give some comparisons from the fairly limited SuperTech spec. sheet. Someone on Edmunds has a SuperTech syn. sheet. Frankly some of tne numbers don't look a lot better than the Chevron SL dino, although they are comparable with other syns.
10W30 SuperTech Pennzoil Quaker St. Wolf's Head Valvoline Mobil Exxon Schaeffers Chevron
Visc. 40c 73.2 67.0 69.1 65.3 70.8 70.0 71.7 66.0 74.8
Visc 100c 11.0 10.5 10.5 10.5 10.5 10.4 10.5 11.1 10.8
Visc. Indx 140 160 139 138 135 134 132 150 135
Flash-F 410 430 410 430 421 392 408 425 453
Pour-F -29 -33 -22 -17 -33 -33 -33 -41 -36
Low Pumping-C -25 -30 -22 -30 x x x x x

 

[Bror Jace]

Terry, all your comments above are for pre-SL oils, correct? Oh, and thanks for explaining Pennzoil's and Quaker State's "waxy" composition.
I've also thought that 10W30 is a better overall choice for vehicles than 5W30 as far as protection is concerned. It's more stable, especially after 2-3,000 miles.

I had heard of a training film from GM about certain engines (V6s?) where they claim 10W30, because it is thicker, can cause rings to stick. Anyone have any comment on this?

In general, I've thought that as the standards have tightened, blenders are less able to be "creative" with their formulas ... so they are more alike now than ever. I suppose there are still a number of ways to meet the new SL specs (blends of Group I, II, III, and IV oils) but I think they are taking more or less the same route.

 

[Johnny]

The Wal-Mart SuperTech oil use to be made by Speciality Lubricants in Shreveport Louisiana. Quaker State bought Speciality, and then Pennzoil bought Quaker State. It is still blended at the Shreveport plant. No, it is not as good as Pennzoil, and it is not as good as the new Quaker State products. The only difference between the Quaker State synthetic and the Pennzoil synthetic is that the Quaker State does not have the 1.5% Pennzane in it. You should not have any problems with the bulk oils at any Wal-Mart. They use top feed tanks and the pick-up tubes are at least 8" from the bottom of the tanks.

 

[Chris]

Not sure about the bulk oil but the conventional Supertech oil on the shelf is indeed distibuted by Warren since my wife works there and can scan any item and retrieve this information. The full synthetic shows Quaker State as the distributor.

 

[widman]

Your original question before sidetracking was about the Chevron Supreme. This is not a standard oil. It is a ISOSYN base (Group II) SL rating that has outstanding results. I have the 5w30 in my 2 Ford pickups and with changes at 6,000 miles my only problem is with Silicon (dirt). They get about 10% paved roads, 90% dirt/gravel roads. Even with the dirt they always have very low wear metals, much lower than samples I have seen of other major brands. Have not seen any shear (vis. loss) or oxidation.
In my Diesel 4Runners and Pickups I run Chevron's Delo 400 15w40 with the same results.

-I analyze about 500 samples a year.
Hope this helps.

 

[csandste]

If Pz/QS doesn't make Super Tech, they're certainly taking the blame for it. Here's a request I made to the Pennzoil/Quaker State web page and their e-mail reply to me. Note that it is not Quaker State, Pennzoil, or Wolf's Head but a separate formulation. My assumption is that the same stuff may show up as other private brands. The e-mail address is [email protected]. The envelope had a Pennzoil/Quaker State return address.

At 03:14 PM 5/1/2002 -0500, you wrote:
Although we do manufacture Super Tech for Wal-Mart, it is not
a relabeled version on either products. I would be happy to send
you a product data sheet. Please submit your name and address.
Thank you.

-----Original Message-----
From: Carl R. Sandstedt [mailto:[email protected]]
Sent: Wednesday, May 01, 2002 2:08 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: SuperTech Oil...

I have heard repeatedly that Pz/QS makes SuperTech oil for Wal-Mart. Is
it relabled Pennzoil, relabled Quaker State or something else
entirely? Would it be possible to obtain tech. sheets?

 

[csandste]

For whatever it's worth, here's the datasheets for Wal-Mart dino. sent to me by Pennzoil/QS. They didn't send a syn. sheet even though someone else posted some syn. data on Edmunds. This is for their SJ grade, apparently they don't have SL datasheets even though it's now in stores.

I'm no expert in reading datasheets, but to my untrained eye it looks much better than Wolf's Head, a little better than Quaker State, but not as good as Pennzoil.

This is Excel into clipboard. It should be hard to read but possible to decipher.

Super Tech SAE Grade(SJ) 5W30 10W30 10W40 20W50
API Gravity 30.7 30.3 31.3 27.9
Viscosity cSt 40C 67.0 73.2 104.0 170.5
Viscosity cSt 100C 10.7 11.0 15.2 19.4
Visc@100F SUS 342.0 376.0 532.0 887.0
Visc@210F SUS 62.8 63.9 80.3 98.3
Visc. Index 155.0 140.0 152.0 121.0
Flash Point c (F) 207(405) 210(410) 221(430) 227(441)
Fire Point C(F) 221(430) 227(441) 232(450) 235(455)
Pour Point C(F) "-37(-35) "-34(-29) "-34(-30) "29(-20)
Viscosity cP, Max 3500@
"-cp Max, 4500 "-25(-13) "-20(4) "-20(-4) "-10(14)
Low Temp Pumping C(F) "-30(-22) "-25(-13) "-25(-13) "-15(-5)
Viscosity cP Max 30,000.0 30,000.0 30,000.0 30,000.0

 

[TheLoneRanger]

Johnny, no offense taken. Thanks for clearing up a long-standing rumor, with me at least (about Quaker State oil sludging up engines because of the parrifin base stock).

I will consider QS in the future. Their packaging is first rate. The bottles really look good on the shelf.

 

[csandste]

Johnny-- Thanks for the info. on QS and Specialty. Here's something I stole from their web page...

"Among the important acquisitions was Specialty Oil Companies of Shreveport, Louisiana. This firm's broad product line included a wide range of industrial lubricants and a strong private label manufacturing capability. In addition, its distribution system greatly enhanced the overall Quaker State system. Specialty Environmental Services greatly enhanced Quaker State's "green" capabilities, particularly in the field of waste oil collection and recycling. These services not only assist Q Lube operations, but they also enable the newly formed Fleet, Commercial and Industrial (FCI) division to provide its customers with complete lubricant service."

Question-- To my untrained eye, it looks like QS's specs. aren't up to Pennzoil's and about the same as the Wal-Mart house brand. This is from memory, not from going over their datasheets. Why is the Specialty line substandard when compared with the other two? Can you tell me some of the other private labels that Specialty or other parts of PZ/QS make?

Also, where in the Pz/QS world does Wolf's Head fit in?

 

[csandste]

More Questions for Johnny...

Here's why I thought SuperTech was better than Quaker State, but not up to Pennzoil. This is 10W30 SJ SuperTech and SL PZ/QS.

Flash Point (F):SuperTech 410F, Pennzoil 430F, Quaker State 410F.

Pour Point (F): SuperTech -29F, Pennzoil -33, Quaker State -22.

Viscosity Index: SuperTech 140, Pennzoil 160, Quaker State 139.

There's more to good oils than these three specs., but the differences between Pz and QS look greater than I would have thought.