Best Napa oil filter for GM crate engine for max power/torque?

[ZeeOSix]

Assume the oil pump moves 8 GPM with an output pressure of 75 PSI. Calculate the required HP into the pump.

The required HP to move 8 GPM at 75 PSI with filter A and a 85% efficient oil pump = 0.41 HP.

The required HP to move 8 GPM at 80 PSI with filter B (with 5 PSI more delta-p) and a 85% efficient oil pump = 0.44 HP.

The change in HP due to the more restrictive oil filter is +0.03 HP ... which is 22.4 watts. That's like 4 night lights ... basically nothing worth even focusing on.

 

[Onefastzl1]

Hold on, bud. You said the engine was rolling over at high rpm. On 10w30??? What oil Temps are you running??? Where are you sampling oil temps, what's the oil pressure???

If it's rolling over on 10w30, that can only mean that it's bleeding out of the lifters at high rpm. If 10w30 does that on a simple 350 with a 6200 rpm limit, that oil has to be running crazy high temperature.

Been a bit since trying to make power with a 350, but I'd watch out for number 7. If the oil is that thin to be bleeding down at high rpm, I'd be worried about oil pressure to number 7 rod as I believe it's the last to get pressure, it may be 8....been a bit. But watch out either don't exit stage left.

I do not have an oil temp gauge in the car, thought about adding one. Many have run 10w-30 for the longest time but the newer engine seem that they the lifters like the thicker oil. Its getting plenty of air and never runs hotter than 190 on the hottest night. The oil is just not enough to pump up the lifters even at the gm oil level or a qt less.

Not sure the rule book on the vacuum pump but I can look into that. 30 hp just on a race 350 or stock 350 circle track engine?

 

[Onefastzl1]

Assume the oil pump moves 8 GPM with an output pressure of 75 PSI. Calculate the required HP into the pump.

The required HP to move 8 GPM at 75 PSI with filter A and a 85% efficient oil pump = 0.41 HP.

The required HP to move 8 GPM at 80 PSI with filter B (with 5 PSI more delta-p) and a 85% efficient oil pump = 0.44 HP.

The change in HP due to the more restrictive oil filter is +0.03 HP ... which is 22.4 watts. That's like 4 night lights ... basically nothing worth even focusing on.

Thank you for this, this was exactly the info I was looking for. As stated above I went down a rabbit hole lol...again just an inquiring mind haha.
So no matter the oil filter 10 mircron or 62 should not be a huge difference. Some of these dyno guys must be blowing smoke then lol.

 

[DuckRyder]

You said a sealed crate engine - 350 so a CT350? 88869602

https://www.chevrolet.com/content/dam/chevrolet/na/us/english/index/performance/resources/installation-guides/crate-engines/02-pdf/ct350-circle-track-racing-engine-88869602.pdf

If so it says the maximum recommended RPM is 5800 and the recommended oil is 15/50.

No wonder it rolls over at the top... you're turning it 400 rpm over redline...

As for your oil filter question in relation to HP - I'll eat an entire box of corndogs if any filter actually makes a difference anyone can feel (if at all)

 

[ZeeOSix]

Thank you for this, this was exactly the info I was looking for. As stated above I went down a rabbit hole lol...again just an inquiring mind haha.
So no matter the oil filter 10 mircron or 62 should not be a huge difference. Some of these dyno guys must be blowing smoke then lol.

You could see a bigger effect on HP on the dyno from the oil used in the engine than you could with what oil filter was used.

 

[flash7210]

I'd say the problem is with the lifters not the oil.
Maybe the lifter pre-load isn't exactly right.
You might need a "anti pump-up" type lifter but you'll also need adjustable rocker arms.
You could look for "cheater" solid lifters.

 

[Vermess]

I do not have an oil temp gauge in the car, thought about adding one. Many have run 10w-30 for the longest time but the newer engine seem that they the lifters like the thicker oil. Its getting plenty of air and never runs hotter than 190 on the hottest night. The oil is just not enough to pump up the lifters even at the gm oil level or a qt less.

Not sure the rule book on the vacuum pump but I can look into that. 30 hp just on a race 350 or stock 350 circle track engine?

No bud, it was on a s550 stang road race 2.3T. That's where the 30 plus was found, totally different beast than a 350, bit same concepts apply.

Yes, your coolant Temps(I use coolant as a blanket term as many organizations allow water only, some regular coolant) may be 190*, however your oil Temps can be 300 or more.

Do not correlate coolant temp as a indicator of good oil Temps. I've seen coolant Temps in the 190s, oil temp in the 290s or more. Same engine equipped with a higher temp thermostat that ran it in the low 200s got the oil Temps in the 260-270 range.

Besides, why a jump from 30 to 50??? Why not split the difference at 40??

I think your worries are a oil cooler away. Don't go too small if you get a oil cooler. With a oil temp gauge, you can block off some of it and get that temp just right for your application.

 

[kschachn]

You’re racing a car and you have no idea what the oil temperatures are?

A lot of strange things going on here in this thread.

 

[Vermess]

You’re racing a car and you have no idea what the oil temperatures are?

A lot of strange things going on here in this thread.

You would be surprised a the lack of instrumentation on some oval cars, be it dirt or asphalt. I've seen them with a tachometer only.

 

[Greasymechtech]

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www.gopurepower.com

Free up horsepower with below link, but might need to do regularly scheduled bearing replacements. But, more power yo

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www.sae.org

 

[kschachn]

You would be surprised a the lack of instrumentation on some oval cars, be it dirt or asphalt. I've seen them with a tachometer only.

Yes I was thinking more of temporary just so he knows.

 

[AdmiralYoda]

My 2 cents. If you are looking for power an oil filter isn't going to be the smoking gun. Yes you have a larger capacity oil pan that may have some baffling in it...but is it a true race oil pan? There are some really trick oil pans out there with integrated crank scrapers and elaborate windage trays. Oil volume also really makes a significant difference.

Motortrend TV has a show called "Engine Master's" if you aren't familiar with it. They did an episode testing oil pans for power. A trick race pan gained something like 25+hp over a standard kickout style oil pan. This engine was a very high performance engine but still gains to be had on a smaller crate engine. They also adjusted the oil volume to minimize aeration to provide proper oil pressure which also increased power.

That said...a dry sump oiling system will outperform even the best oil pan. Food for thought.

For sustained operation at high RPM you'd probably be better off with a solid or solid roller lifter. Engine Master's also did an episode on hydraulic lifters as well. They compared OEM vs budget "performance" vs very high quality lifters, I think it was Crane that they used for the good ones. There was a pretty good jump in peak HP at high rpm. The cheap lifters and even the OEM lifters started to bleed down and caused valve float sooner than the performance lifters.

Sounds like you may need more spring pressure too. Do you have a cam in there intended for higher HP at higher RPM's? If not, operating at a higher RPM than the power peak isn't going to gain you anything. You may need a gear ratio change to get back into the powerband....or a bigger cam!

 

[userfriendly]

Looking for a little more top end cheap, without going to a bigger cam? Try retarding the cam 2 crank degrees from where you have it now and use higher ratio rockers on the intake side. The higher lift will load the spring another 30 lbs or so, and maybe prevent valve float.
Adjust valves at zero lash plus 1/2 turn.
Use at least the SBC HV oil pump with a pinned drive. Some use a BBC oil pump converted for SBC use.

I would go no thinner than 15w40, but use whatever works for you.

AdmiralYoda mentioned a bigger cam. Yep, sounds like a good idea. But only more on the intake side, or you might throw out the
baby with the bath water. More rocker is the easiest way to make the cam act bigger.

 

[bullwinkle]

I ran 10w-30 and as stated above the engine rolled over up top even with new springs. Back to 20w-50 and engine was best its been and top 5 in hot laps. So hard to go thinner with newer crates as lifters don't like it. What is your suggestion?

My brother has run 20W50 & 15W40 HDEO (fleet, dual rated gas/engine oil), he’s never mentioned any revving issues when he’s used it in his SBC based dirt track car (usually a stroker 350/383 or occasional 400 small blocks). I know he’s pushed 7000 RPM, he’s pulled studs out of heads, launched pushrods & lifters, big fun in the pits…

 

[JohnnyJohnson]

You could see a bigger effect on HP on the dyno from the oil used in the engine than you could with what oil filter was used.

Yes I was just wondering what the expectation for HP gain where?

 

[timtupper]

The 20w50 is costing more than the filter ever will.

 

[sjw91]

I remember an episode of Engine Masters a couple years ago where they tested different filters for hp gain. The winner was K&N gold, but there really wasn't much difference.

 

[ZeeOSix]

I remember an episode of Engine Masters a couple years ago where they tested different filters for hp gain. The winner was K&N gold, but there really wasn't much difference.

Sure it wasn't different oils? Don't think the required oil pump HP delta from different oil filters could ever be seen on dyno ... way too small and into the dyno accuracy noise level.

 

[sjw91]

Sure it wasn't different oils? Don't think the required oil pump HP delta from different oil filters could ever be seen on dyno ... way too small and into the dyno accuracy noise level.

It was different filters. They were checking for the best flow. It was 2 years ago, and I don't remember much.

I tried jogging my memory and found a thread on here about the episode. Not many fans (including you).

Enginemasters new episode 4/30 oil filter showdown!

Just started watching. Available on the MT on demand app. Looks like they tear through fram, wix, and MC.

bobistheoilguy.com

 

[ZeeOSix]

It was different filters. They were checking for the best flow. It was 2 years ago, and I don't remember much.

I tried jogging my memory and found a thread on here about the episode. Not many fans (including you).

Enginemasters new episode 4/30 oil filter showdown!

Just started watching. Available on the MT on demand app. Looks like they tear through fram, wix, and MC.

bobistheoilguy.com

Yeah, as I and @OVERKILL pointed out in that thread, lots of things going on that the testers didn't seem to realize. As shown earlier in this thread, an oil filter with a few PSI difference in delta-p isn't going to change the required parasitic HP into the oil pump enough to even be able to be measured on a dyno with +/- accuaracey and repeatablity way over what the filter would change in terms of HP output.