Best action shoot-out film ? honors goes to Heat IMHO..

@billt460 I have a question.

During the scene where Neal is presenting to his crew the bank job, and an "are you in, or are you out" proposition. The audience sees very thoughtful close up affirmative responses from Chris and Michael. Very thoughtful deliberation and discussion with Neal. Then, oddly, the camera pulls back and Trejo says, "yeah, I'm in." Very unconvincing.

Fast forward, Trejo calls from a payphone and claims he is being followed and cannot dump the cops and cancels his participation (wisely, b/c the driver dies in the heist). Yet we never see any sign of police following him.

Do you think Trejo just had second thoughts and withdrew his participation?

Next question, is that Neal's presence in that diner with the black con as the cook, is one remarkable coincidence. Do you think Neal, with all of his street intelligence, put himself there suspecting Trejo may be unreliable (particularly given the very casual agreement on the job) and he might need a backup plan? This seems extremely savvy but within Neal's plotting abilities and intelligence network...
 
dnewton3 said:
I must confess I though we were constraining our assessments based on the action shoot-out concept.

As for the action scenes themselves, Heat has one of the more graphic and realistic action sequences I've seen. Den of Thieves isn't a great movie, but it's similar in terms of the shoot-out. I loved Saving Private Ryan for it's beach landing scene (also the rest of the movie had good fight scenes). Most all the movies which have been noted so far in this thread have decent shoot-out scenes (reasonably realistic). The rest of the movies are up for various fair critiscisms. Some of you are reviewing the entire movie; direction, acting, character development, plot, sub-plots ...

I confess that I prefer my action movies with at least some sense of reality. Heat does this in terms of the shoot-out. Ronin is awesome for it's car chase; probably one of the most realistic ones. Movies like John Wick or any of the F&F make me cringe due to the obscenely unrealistic action scenes.
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I will never watch a John Wick.

Thank you for mentioning Ronin.

Yes, the pursuit/followngunfight at the end of Den Of Thieves was well done.

And it featured the SMAW..
 
dnewton3 said:
I confess that I prefer my action movies with at least some sense of reality. Heat does this in terms of the shoot-out. Ronin is awesome for it's car chase; probably one of the most realistic ones. Movies like John Wick or any of the F&F make me cringe due to the obscenely unrealistic action scenes.
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While I prefer Heat, Ronin is nearly as good in all respects. Both are incredibly entertaining, thinking mans' action films with excellent plot, acting, writing, directing, and action scenes. Agree on the Wick, F&F, and I'd add anything James Bond, XXX, and similar are mind numbing...
 
stormgol said:
heat is in my top 5 favorite films. along with the first blade runner, the first alien, gladiator and the shawshank redemption.
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Agreed.

If you haven't seen them, watch Mad Max 1 and Mad Max 2, back to back. These are also simply incredible films.
 
It's very possible Trejo got second thoughts after committing himself. And made up the whole being tailed story. Plus, Pacino's crew never said anything about tailing him, or reestablishing surveillance. Also, he was dressed too casual at the pay phone for someone who was about to drive a getaway car in a $12 million dollar bank heist. Everyone else was in suits. But I believe the meeting with the grill cook was pure coincidence.
 
gmh101358 said:
The Al Pacino, Val Kilmer, Robert DeNiro .....the shootout scene does what no other movie comes close to.....gunfire is loud! The scene has to be L.E. worst nightmare.....Ive read the two in the North Hollywood shootout based thier bank heist off the move Heat
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I agree.
Some training providers even use that scene as an illustration for the proper employment of fire and movement techniques in urban terrain.
 
billt460 said:
It's very possible Trejo got second thoughts after committing himself. And made up the whole being tailed story. Plus, Pacino's crew never said anything about tailing him, or reestablishing surveillance. Also, he was dressed too casual at the pay phone for someone who was about to drive a getaway car in a $12 million dollar bank heist. Everyone else was in suits. But I believe the meeting with the grill cook was pure coincidence.
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Interesting observation. The film does not have a single wasted scene, so gratuitously showing Trejo trotting back to his car, wearing flip flops, absolutely suggests he had a change of heart. Coupled with a complete lack of any hint from Pacino that they picked up surveillance on Trejo does strongly suggest it was fabricated by Trejo.
 
y_p_w said:
Isn't the problem really that automatic fire is rarely used or even advised? I know it looks cool, but won't an M16/M4 with a 32-round magazine be out after about 3 seconds of automatic fire?
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You are correct. (except most mags, are 30 rounders)
However back in the 90s this liberal use of full auto fire was actually doctrine for small teams trying to break contact with a superior force.

Most units and training providers, emphasize ammo management more now full auto is used only by exception.
 
Laying down heavy fire, particularly fully auto fire, for suppression, remains doctrine while bounding to for from an objective. Whilst many movies liberally use full auto with no tactical reason nor justifiable excuse for doing so, the bank heist scene is plausible and explained very well. This crew is exceptionally well trained in weaponry, and has resources to acquire it. I absolutely love the flavor of the different variety of guns, from ARs, Galils, shotguns, HKs, Sigs, etc.

Not to mention, a few years later as others commented a bank heist was literally pulled off by a pair using modified fully auto weapons. Truth is stranger than fiction it appears.
 
CharlesInCharge said:
While I prefer Heat, Ronin is nearly as good in all respects. Both are incredibly entertaining, thinking mans' action films with excellent plot, acting, writing, directing, and action scenes. Agree on the Wick, F&F, and I'd add anything James Bond, XXX, and similar are mind numbing...
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Ronin is about perfect.
 
CharlesInCharge said:
I remember hating that film, intensely. I require some level of believability in a film, in order to be invested in it and the outcome. It's why I don't care for most of what Hollyweird pushes these days. YMMV.
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You said it. I can not remember the last time I saw a "new" movie that I was interested in. I do not watch network (ABC / NBC / CBS) at all.
 
CharlesInCharge said:
When you think of all the fantastic films DeNiro and Pachino have starred in, I think Heat might be them both at the top of their game. It's probably Sizemore's best or 2nd best film (the other being Saving Private Ryan). Kilmer has had an incredible career, including Tombstone, and Heat is probably his best role. The same could be said for a few other stars. It is an absolute 5 star perfect film IMO. I've probably watched it 50 times, including seeing it in the theater when it came out. It's a flawless action suspense movie IMO.
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I always though Sizemore deserved an award for Private Ryan , maybe more than Hanks. I agree. Have owned HEAT on DvD for years. Plus Donnie Brasco, Goodfellows, Tombstone, Once Upon A Time In America. I just recieved for a Christmas gift the Tv series Justified. Had not seen it but had a friend kept telling me about episodes the whole time it was on Tv. Now I am catching up n about half way into it. Very good so far. Noticed it was authored by a name that is attatched to many of the old classic western movies I have liked since childhood. Elmore Leonard.
 
gmh101358 said:
The Al Pacino, Val Kilmer, Robert DeNiro .....the shootout scene does what no other movie comes close to.....gunfire is loud! The scene has to be L.E. worst nightmare.....Ive read the two in the North Hollywood shootout based thier bank heist off the move Heat
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I don't know if it's been mentioned. "The Town" has a couple of good sequences.
 
madeej11 said:
I don't know if it's been mentioned. "The Town" has a couple of good sequences.
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"The Town", while not quite as good as "Heat", certainly was up there. The bank and armored car heists were very well played out. Not to mention the chase scene, and it various shootouts through the narrow streets of Charlestown, was excellent.

It also had the same cat and mouse game between the head of the robbery crew, (Ben Affleck), and the police Captain, (Jon Hamm). And the big robbery at the end of Fenway Park in Boston was well executed.
 
billt460 said:
"The Town", while not quite as good as "Heat", certainly was up there. The bank and armored car heists were very well played out. Not to mention the chase scene, and it various shootouts through the narrow streets of Charlestown, was excellent.

It also had the same cat and mouse game between the head of the robbery crew, (Ben Affleck), and the police Captain, (Jon Hamm). And the big robbery at the end of Fenway Park in Boston was well executed.
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THE TOWN. I did enjoy. I wonder how many modern day theif crews watched that movie with anticipation of what they can go out and do better?!?
Talk about your University of Crime school that movie was :oops: like several others? :love:
 
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