Battery Charger Testing Results

@JHZR2

For the noco chargers, do you have an idea of how long it might have taken to go from the optimize phase (flashing green) to the full soc (solid green)? Would it also be unwise to leave the charger on the battery to achieve the full soc, or unplug once it has finished bulk charging (75% soc)

I am considering getting a genius 1 amp for off vehicle charging on 12volt batteries
I don’t really. When in these modes, the voltage is held (approximately), and the current the battery is taking is dropping naturally to next to nil. That’s a natural logarithmic process, so it’s slow. How big the battery and charger is defines it for the situation at hand.

I don’t see the value in unplugging it. My observation with most chargers is thst in order to be green and meet energy mandates, they shut off once “done”, instead of staying at a nominal float voltage. They just watch the battery until it depletes or self discharges to a threshold, and then starts again. Some don’t work as well at that, and don’t wake up. The NoCo ones seem to be fine
 
@JHZR2

For the noco chargers, do you have an idea of how long it might have taken to go from the optimize phase (flashing green) to the full soc (solid green)? Would it also be unwise to leave the charger on the battery to achieve the full soc, or unplug once it has finished bulk charging (75% soc)

I am considering getting a genius 1 amp for off vehicle charging on 12volt batteries
IME the NOCO, at least the 10A version, rockets to the lowest current mode way too soon, and then accepts too low of a resting voltage before re-engaging. I believe the sweet spot for the money with NOCO will be 5 amps or less.
 
When one puts a smart charger on a battery at a high state of charge, it can decide to do all sorts of things.
The Noco genius 1 I tested, had three different amperage levels on the agm setting.

going by memory here:

It would output 1 amp until 1 ampere got the battery upto 13.6vish, then only 0.5 amps until it reached 13.8v, then 0.25 amps to get the battery to 14.7v. Once it hit 14.7v, it quit outputing any amperage, and would not start again until battery voltage was drawn down to 12.69v.

It can take days for this surface charge voltage, to dissipate when disconnected from anything, or when in vehicle, for parasitic loads AND self discharge to btrng it down to 12.69v . Temperature and battery health are huge influencing variables as to how long it takes surface charge voltage to dissipate, after the charger stops..

One mighty see 12.83v, and this is NOT the float voltage, the noco is likely just waiting for battery voltage to fall to 12.69v before it starts putting out amperage again and then will again raise the battery voltage to the 3 setpoints it is programmed to seek.

I've no Idea if the genius 10 does something similar, on the agm setting.
You tell me.

When the smart charger quickly is able to raise battery voltage high, it assumes the battery is very close to, or at full charge ,and will perhaps just get it to mid 14,s then stop entirely, waiting for battery voltage to drop.
Some chargers seeing a low current quickly raise battery voltgae, might then skip pas bulk and absorption stages, and instead go right to float mode, and output enough amperage to only hold the battery at the programmed float voltage.

Idea float voltage is temperature dependent and battery specific.

The Noco genius one strategy in terms of just shutting off after achieving 14.7v, rather than holding the battery at as set float voltage can be a good thing. or not so good.
Takes for example my Northstar AGM. This battery fully charged holds 13.06v for weeks, when not connected to anything.
If the Genius 1 waited until its voltage fell to 12.69v, it would take months and the battery drained to 85% or so before it kicked back on.

Note, i did not wait, to test to see if there is a time trigger on the Genius 1.. I was loading the battery with some 12v LEDS upto about 1.5 amps iirc, and only when they drew it down to 12.69v did the Noco genius one kick back on and seek 13.6+v again

One size fits all Fload voltages on a battery well outside of 77f or one specifying high or lower float voltage is not even close to ideal. No matter how nice the word 'trickle' apparently sounds.

Too low a float voltage on a cold battery will allow it to slowly discharge and sulfate, too high a float voltage will eventually overcharge. use water, positive plate corrosion. premature failure.

Tricking smart chargers into doing what one is expecting, often requires draining the battery a fair amount, so that the charger can then put out its maximum amperage and slowly raise the battery voltage from low 12's, to mid 14's, then holding it mid 14's for x amount of time.

I got so sick of trying to second guess smart chargers, I now just use a adjustable voltage power supply, and watch an ammeter.

Voltage is electrical pressure
The battery decides how much amperage it can accept at the voltage/pressure reaching the battery terminals.

If the charger is rated for 10 amps, and placed on a well depleted healthy battery, it should initially provide 10 amps until the pressure rises to mid 14's.

A 100 amp hour healthy, battery drained to 50%, will take 10 amps for about 3.5 hours, before voltage reaches 14.5v at the battery terminals, then require 2-3 more hours above 14.0v to be in the 99.5% charged range. Lesser pressure = more time, and older batteries, lesser pressure will not be able to reach full charge no matter how much time one has.

Would you like to drive from A to B without an odometer, or speedometer on a featureless landscape, and have no good idea how to judge speed?

Knowing voltage /pressure a charger is delivering into the battery, is like saying my vehicle can go either 35mph, 75.27mph, or 100mph, but I have no idea where point A is, nor how far away B is, nor do know my speed, nor how far I have traveled. I'll just have the vehicle stop automatically when i see a green light and assume I am there.

Get an ammeter.

When amperage tapers to very low levels at voltages above 14.2ish, or stops tapering, the battery is truly fully charged. amperage the battery accepts at at float voltages ( less pressure) is much less informative.

If you dont know the amperage the battery is accepting, but only voltage, you have no idea whether you are travelling 35, 75, or 100mph, and with the Noco genius 1 anyway, you could simply be coasting towards 12.69v, after having gotten to 100mph, hours, or days, or weeks before.

Stop driving blind.

Splice these 12 awg leads inline on your charger( upto 25 amps). simple dimple, there is a source and load side. the charger will be the source, the battery the load.

https://www.amazon.com/GT-Power-Analyzer-Consumption-Performance/dp/B00C1BZSYO

it will show:
1. Voltage
2. amperage
3. wattage
4. Watt hours
5. amp hours.
6. Peak amperage
7. Peak wattage
8. Minimum voltage
9. some clones show Time, as well. some think 52 minutes is an hour, and the KWH figure is way off, but Ah are still accurate.

There are many dozens of clones of this wattmeter.
None are perfect, most are good enough.

Some do better than others reading accurately in the 0.3 amp range or less.
Some I've gotten, have been good down to 0.06amps, but at an actual 0.05amps it reads 0.00amps.
Others read 0.15a at an actual 0.3 amps and reads 0.00 at an actual 0.12 amps

I double check mine with other shunted ammeters, or a clamp on Ammeters.

Knowing how many amp hours the battery took before the charger shut off, is enlightening.
Knowing how many more amp hours the battery can accept after the smart charger shuts off, and an adjustable voltage power supply applied continues to hold the battery in the mid 14, is both frustrating, and enlightening.

On ~100 Ah batteries I found I could almost always stuff in 8 to 12 more amp hours via adjustable voltage power supply, after the smart charger said enough, green light for you.

Once I started regularly stuffing those additional 8 to 12 amp hours into the regularly deep cycling marine 12v battery, I started getting 'respectable' cycle life from them. Before that I was consistently disappointed with any brand battery, no matter how well I tried to recharge them with the tools I had, then.

How much difference it makes in a pure starter battery duty, is certainly up for debate.

Good enough, is subjective.
Opinion,
and there no shortages of uninformed versions of those, nowadays.
Would it be possible to wire in battery clamps on one end of this and a separate terminal on the other that the clamps from charger could grab onto?
That way it could be used with many different chargers?
Screenshot_20241007-150730.webp
 
I don't have the time or strength to read this entire thread. Is there a brief summary posted somewhere that would help me choose a good charger to buy?

What's the best charger for:
Wet battery?
AGM?
Both?
 
I don't have the time or strength to read this entire thread. Is there a brief summary posted somewhere that would help me choose a good charger to buy?

What's the best charger for:
Wet battery?
AGM?
Both?

What charge rate? Trickle? How “smart” of a charger do you want?

Noco products have served me well the last eight years or so, after a lifetime using only “dumb” chargers.
 
Smart just means Automatic.
So the charger will lower voltage and amps once battery is getting close to fully charged so it doesn't cook it.
Only downside to smart chargers is that they usually need some kind of voltage reported before they will *see* the battery. So they usually don't work on completely dead batteries.

I like clore products for bigger bulk chargers. Something with a voltage meter. I have a clore "charge it" that does 2/6/12 amp
For 1A trickle chargers I like Noco.
 
I don't have the time or strength to read this entire thread. Is there a brief summary posted somewhere that would help me choose a good charger to buy?

What's the best charger for:
Wet battery?
AGM?
Both?
For $40, this cannot be beat. While I do not personally own one, I know others like this brand, and at this price, hard to beat. Charges, maintains and desulfates.

4 amp, has settings for flooded, AGM and lithium ion. Also has automatic temperature compensation, which is a great feature that most brands do not have. It also can automatically restart after a power outage, where most brands will not, and go into a standby mode. It also has a mode to recharge a completely dead battery, which most are incapable of doing, as the electronics in most require a minimum voltage to begin charging.

Includes both clamps and ring terminals.

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00U3ZBU2...TSOFSKRQ&psc=1&ref_=list_c_wl_lv_ov_lig_dp_it
 
For inexpensive 1amp charger, I like this Battery Minder which has multiple stages and charges, maintains and desulfates, and includes automatic temperature compensation, like their larger more expensive units. For flooded and AGM only. Still includes a 5 year warranty too:
https://www.northerntool.com/produc...wSIwQS0cAs7d-YRbsAgaArNxEALw_wcB&gclsrc=aw.ds

If you want to spend more, and get a few more features, I like this one, which adds more features, like 2, 4 and 8 amp settings, flooded, AGM and Lithium ion. Also automatic temperature compensation. Does not have a voltage display.

https://www.batteryminders.com/batt...tainer-desulfator-lithium-charger-maintainer/

Shop around online, you can find this for a lot less, around $180 or so.
https://www.rvupgradestore.com/Batt...8d2ai2V77TnBliCl8YUaAocdEALw_wcB&gad_source=1
 
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Its been mentioned before. How do you like it?
I only use it to top my trailer batteries off. It’s so nice using Bluetooth because the charger remains locked in with batteries with only a power cord hanging out. Also at least this one doesn’t seem to run hot at all. My previous 5a Noco just ran too hot for my liking in an enclosed space.
 
Very interesting thread. Thank you for all of the work.

A couple of points though.
  1. It would be nice if the integrated Ah for the charging cycle was provided. Ideally at each time point as a third graph, but at least as a numeric value for the whole test. If the data starts out in some sort of text format, like CSV, it would be easy to calculate it from that file. Deriving it from the images is challenging.
  2. It would be helpful to know what the batteries' claimed Ah ratings are for each test. Also the range of ambient temperatures during the test.
  3. If a test battery came out of a vehicle it should be briefly discharged before the charger is attached. In my own experience surface charge in some instances caused both a Battery Tender Jr. and a Harbor Freight "Viking" 63350 to not charge a battery properly. They went straight to maintenance mode. For the same reason, both of those devices failed to resume charging if the power was interrupted before they had fully charged a battery. Both would resume charging at a higher rate once the surface charge was bled off. Some chargers may handle this issue without manual intervention, but others, like these two, don't.
 
I’ve got a Noco 5 and no complaints. I also have the ultimate in Chinese manufacturing, an axtra 3.6 amp that I actually find myself reaching for 1st. Hook it up and it’s automatically know whether your charging an agm or flooded battery, unlike the Noco. IMO the biggest thing is actually using one on the regular. Nissan replaced my wife’s battery in her Altima (efb) that failed in less than 6 months with an agm. I figured with actual temps being -10 this week that I better check all of my batteries and top them off to be safe. Glad I did, because that new agm had a charge of 15%! There’s no issues and standard parasitic draw, the problem is this time of year it’s only being driven about 10 miles per day and Nissans “smart charge” system. Precisely why when this battery dies an early death that I’ll just replace it with a flooded battery.
 
I’ve got a Noco 5 and no complaints. I also have the ultimate in Chinese manufacturing, an axtra 3.6 amp that I actually find myself reaching for 1st. Hook it up and it’s automatically know whether your charging an agm or flooded battery, unlike the Noco. IMO the biggest thing is actually using one on the regular. Nissan replaced my wife’s battery in her Altima (efb) that failed in less than 6 months with an agm. I figured with actual temps being -10 this week that I better check all of my batteries and top them off to be safe. Glad I did, because that new agm had a charge of 15%! There’s no issues and standard parasitic draw, the problem is this time of year it’s only being driven about 10 miles per day and Nissans “smart charge” system. Precisely why when this battery dies an early death that I’ll just replace it with a flooded battery.
Prevention might be the easier solution. You have the battery tenders, just come up with a convenient way to connect it up to the Altima. Then simply plug it in a couple times a week. I've done that with a couple "garage queens" that makes it so easy, I just plug them in whenever they are parked in the garage. So they are always plugged in when parked at home.

Even a flooded battery will have issues with a short tripped car, esp with these new charging algorithms. My rarely driven BMW is 7 years old, but since it sits on a Battery Minder when parked, both of the factory original AGM batteries still exceed their rating when tested.
 
How does it determine that?
Google AI says:

A battery charger typically detects whether a battery is flooded or AGM by analyzing the battery's voltage and current characteristics during the charging process, with a smart charger using sophisticated algorithms to differentiate between the two types based on their unique charging profiles, which are different due to the different internal construction of flooded and AGM batteries; essentially, an AGM battery will accept a higher charging current at a slightly lower voltage compared to a flooded battery, allowing the charger to identify the battery type.
 
I just ordered the motomax that so many have spoke highly of. I haven’t decided how, or what I’ll use it on, but I like the 13.4 constant volts supplied.
 
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