Bashing Fram oil filters.

[robo339]

Originally Posted By: bbhero
If its rated for 15,000 miles and many people have had great results doing so.... Then why not try it??

It just makes me the job much easier to not to have mess with the filter every time. I do see what you are saying about the money aspect. But I think it does justify spending $9 on a Ultra. It is actually cheaper than running the extra guard for three times for $12. But, yeah you are right. It really doesn't equal a whole lot of money at the end of the day.
But again, the ability of the filter to pick up containiments increases over time. This does make sense to keep them on longer than say 5k miles because it will filter out more contaminants after this point.
But hey, it is a somewhat free country at the end if the day

Lol somewhat free is true the fram fans will fight you to death over the ultra I never said it wouldn't or couldn't do it and I've used them too but I see no need in using a 15k mile filter on a 8k oci I'd rather change it and have that piece of mind that everything is clean when I change it not including I keep very detailed maintenance records which if I ever do sell this truck and Joe blow sees that "I was to cheap to change the filter" might hurt in resale aspects

 

[jhellwig]

I am going to go back to using ocods and purilators out of spite.

 

[bbhero]

Yeah that makes sense to me

No need in a 15k filter for a 8k interval. While I am a Fram fan... I know that there are certainly other filters that work good too. But, yeah maybe it's hard to be free

 

[dlundblad]

Originally Posted By: robo339
Originally Posted By: BikeWhisperer
Originally Posted By: robo339
Yeaaaa but you can get better for the same amount of money


Maybe for the Extra Guard (but that is debatable), but not for the Fram Ultra.

The Fram Ultra has been shown to easily go the 15k it is rated for. I spent $7.50 each for mine (package of 4 for $30 shipped in sealed boxes). If I choose to only go 10k then that is $3.75 per the 5k that most "cheap" oil filters are designed for. If I go 15k then it's only $2.50 per 5k...now which is the "better filter for the same price"?

But lets say the cheap filter can go 7.5k...then if I go 15k on the FU I am still paying the same price but getting a higher efficiency and better flowing filter (due to the full synthetic media).

Either way the better filter for the same price or less is the Fram Ultra.


I'm not sold on leaving a dirty filter on and changing to clean oil it feels like taking a poop and not wiping after...... butt to each his own I'll stick with changing/wiping every time I've used fram ultra and it's cool and all and no doubt is a good filter but not my cup of tea


I used to think the oil was "dirty" too, but technically it is just used. It will be clean because it is filtered through.

That said, I understand switching the filter out every OCI, but to compare them to not wiping ones [censored] isnt the same thing.

 

[SilverC6]

I believe FRAM suffers from being overly value-engineered.

Open the can and a squirt of this and a tuft of that falls out.

I use US built FRAM OCOD's and FRAM Ultra's regularly in my 2010 and 2011 Camrys and they perform well.

But the Camrys use a cartridge style filter. You can see what the filter media cartridge looks like before and after you use them. And FRAM does claim high efficiency filtration though their media.

But a lot of the things that can be problematic with FRAM are not a part of a cartridge style filter.

There is no ABFV to leak down, no pressure bypass valve to starve the engine on acceleration or during the first few minutes after start up on a cold day, and no build quality problems hidden by a thin orange can.

 

[ExMachina]

Originally Posted By: jhellwig
I am going to go back to using ocods and purilators out of spite.

Well, Donald Trump uses ocods and purolators.... so, be a rebel, go ahead.

 

[901Memphis]

Here is a post Motorking made about efficiency and holding capacity last year. The top numbers are for the XG8A at 32 grams. I believe the smaller Fram Ultras are 22 grams according to his other posts which I can't find right now.

Also you can see the 99.5% figure I used to quote that some questioned.


Quote:

Hello,
I am the tech director at FRAM. Your correct when you say that many shops and quick lubes use a consolidated design to save on part numbers. That said, the FRAM bashing on here is almost funny. Compare the MC specs published to the least expensive FRAM
MC= 80% efficiency @20 microns
FRAM EG= 95.7 % efficiency @20 microns 11 grams capacity
FRAM TG = 99% efficiency@20 microns 15 grams capacity
FRAM Ultra= 99.5+ efficiency@20 microns 32 grams capacity
Clearly, the Least expensive FRAM is better at keeping dirt out of your engine.
ps- 100% of Ford vehicles built in 2014 roll out of the factory with a filter built by FRAM filtration. Purolator only makes the aftermarket MC's.

 

[901Memphis]

Original quote here

http://www.mercurymarauder.net/forums/archive/index.php/t-94646.html

 

[Bigdaddyeasy]

Originally Posted By: bbhero
I have had my Fram Ultra on for 11k miles. I changed my oil in my Altima 1200 miles ago. My oil color is looking really good. I've learned on here that oil filters pick up more contaminants with time.


Yes I've learned that too. Makes since.

 

[stchman]

Originally Posted By: 901Memphis
Here is a post Motorking made about efficiency and holding capacity last year. The top numbers are for the XG8A at 32 grams. I believe the smaller Fram Ultras are 22 grams according to his other posts which I can't find right now.

Also you can see the 99.5% figure I used to quote that some questioned.


Quote:

Hello,
I am the tech director at FRAM. Your correct when you say that many shops and quick lubes use a consolidated design to save on part numbers. That said, the FRAM bashing on here is almost funny. Compare the MC specs published to the least expensive FRAM
MC= 80% efficiency @20 microns
FRAM EG= 95.7 % efficiency @20 microns 11 grams capacity
FRAM TG = 99% efficiency@20 microns 15 grams capacity
FRAM Ultra= 99.5+ efficiency@20 microns 32 grams capacity
Clearly, the Least expensive FRAM is better at keeping dirt out of your engine.
ps- 100% of Ford vehicles built in 2014 roll out of the factory with a filter built by FRAM filtration. Purolator only makes the aftermarket MC's.


So the Motorcraft oil filters that people on BITOG rave about are 80% @ 20 microns while the OCOD Fram filters that people on BITOG complain about are 97.5% @ 20 microns. Hmmm, does not even seem like a fair fight, the cheapie Fram beats the mighty Motorcraft oil filter easily?

I now question how people judge a filter's ability to filter oil by simply looking at the element when cut open. Sure the Motorcraft may "look" better, but the inside of an engine does not care about how a filter's innards look.

 

[Sayjac]

Quote:
....So the Motorcraft oil filters that people on BITOG rave about are 80% @ 20 microns .....

Not.

As with most OEM's efficiency is generally proprietary. MC listed a vague ~80%>20um for a long time.

However anyone that has frequents this board knows that Amsoil tested the Motorcraft FL820 (and other oems) and it tested ~94%@20um, very respectable.

That would be in comparison to the Fram made Honda A02 which tested ~66%@20um.

So once again more spurious misinformation reported, even with the Amsoil graph posted here more times than one can count. But sourcing the comment, unsurprising 'to me.'

 

[stchman]

Originally Posted By: sayjac
Quote:
....So the Motorcraft oil filters that people on BITOG rave about are 80% @ 20 microns .....


Not.

As with most OEM's efficiency is generally proprietary. MC used to list a vague ~80%>20um.

However anyone that has frequents this board knows that Amsoil tested the Motorcraft FL820 ( adn other oems) and it tested ~94%@20um, very respectable.

That would be in comparison to the Fram made Honda A02 which tested ~66%@20um.

So once again more spurious misinformation reported, even with the Amsoil graph posted here an more times than one can count. But sourcing the comment, unsurprising 'to me.'

So the el-cheapo AC Delco PF48 is almost as good as the $17 Amsoil filter in particle filtering? I gather the Amsoil has a greater dirt holding capacity.

The Toyota and Honda oil filters appear to be gravel screens.

 

[mjoekingz28]

Save the benchracing for winter-time!

 

[901Memphis]

The comment was provided solely for the contamination capacity someone mentioned. I just decided to copy the entire paragraph to be more thorough.

 

[ExMachina]

Originally Posted By: stchman
.
So the el-cheapo AC Delco PF48 is almost as good as the $17 Amsoil filter in particle filtering? I gather the Amsoil has a greater dirt holding capacity.

The Toyota and Honda oil filters appear to be gravel screens.


I don't know how those cellulose media oil filters of AC, Chrysler, and Ford in sayjac's Amsoil chart even got above 90%. Usually all-paper elements don't score that high. Maybe bad info. Typical values for paper oil filters are around 80% at 20 microns, not over 90% !

 

[kschachn]

Originally Posted By: stchman
The Toyota and Honda oil filters appear to be gravel screens.


It would appear that way from the Amsoil graph, yet my Honda and Toyotas have used OEM filters for nearly their entire lives without any issues. Once again (if you believe the Amsoil graph) it tends to support the idea it doesn't matter one bit.

 

[Sayjac]

I suppose one can call Amsoil's (not mine) ISO 4548-12 efficiency ratings a lie. Been out for some time now it hasn't been taken down so I'd say no one has been able to dispute it. Been posted here regularly by many over the years, including here just recently.

And tears aside, Purolator has had ISO ratings in the ~97-99%@20um using cellulose media for some time.

The Amsoil graph oem results seem very reasonable to me, mid 90's@20um for majority, cellulose or not.

I'd use MC filters for ~5-6k mile ocis with complete confidence. But getting Napa Gold for <$3.75, they are my go to at the moment for ROI on my oci.

 

[Bigdaddyeasy]

But really where do they make and sale French donuts in the us? I really wanna try one.

 

[kschachn]

Originally Posted By: Bigdaddyeasy
But really where do they make and sale French donuts in the us? I really wanna try one.


Beignets? They are available lots of places if you just look around.

 

[stchman]

Originally Posted By: kschachn
Originally Posted By: stchman
The Toyota and Honda oil filters appear to be gravel screens.


It would appear that way from the Amsoil graph, yet my Honda and Toyotas have used OEM filters for nearly their entire lives without any issues. Once again (if you believe the Amsoil graph) it tends to support the idea it doesn't matter one bit.


The old VW Beetle simply had a junky screen and those little engines lasted a LONG time.