Average new car price is $50K ? Insanity.

[IndyIan]

This scenario about flipping your existing vehicle for a new one is hard for some to understand on here.

I understand it, but I find for us, the numbers never really favor trading in (the exception was at some points during COVID). We also use our vehicles for whatever comes up on the hobby farm, and keeping a DD near blemish free for a good trade value isn't a hobby for me...

TBH I do like the simplicity and directness of the analogue Focus, and not worrying about paint or whatever, its a tool like my tractor or mountain bike, dish washer, etc, not a showpiece of automotive art. I don't worry about warming it up, or cooling it off, or putting snow covered skis in the back... I'll leave the hatch open to make sure it doesn't get moldy back there, but if skis scratch some plastic trim that's OK! I like even autocrossing it, which I wouldn't do in a car of significant value at our main location(walls nearby). I guess its thinking of your car like work boots or trail running shoes, you use them until they are done.

I am a bit worried as these simple cars are disappearing as more people get into complex cars and trade in before their out of warranty though. The next one after the Focus may have to go quite a while!

 

[CKN]

I think there is quite a bit of sour grapes in there. Instead of people saying they are happy with their older paid for vehicles and they can't afford a new one or don't want to spend the money on a new one, they denigrate the new vehicles' features. I could see not wanting the start/stop but premium stereos and a heated steering wheels are great. I wish my car had a heated steering wheel and better stereo. The electronic nannies are not that big of a deal. Most of them in my RAV4 can be turned off easily.

The gentleman from Georgia is correct and I think we are in the middle of a huge evolution in vehicles. My wife and I are retiring, God willing, in two years. I guess we'll keep both cars but I don't if that will make sense. It's pretty rare that we're both going out separate places now except to work. I'd buy a new car today but there's nothing revolutionary out. And I think some cool new cars will be coming out in the next few years and that's what I'm waiting on.

Exactly. Well said. And it's only going to get worse as the new vehicle prices climb-and the price of used (i.e. beaters) climb as well. The "the world is going to you know where in a handbasket" because of car payments is the new "thick vs. Thin" on here and is getting just as repetitious!

According to the post above (boarding on a personal attack I may add). I'm not a bright bulb. OK sure. I retired at 55 years of age (due to Real Estate investments)-I got two automobiles collectively worth $70,000.00-sitting in my garage-and just got off a 74 day Grand South America cruise.

Yea sure......

 

[svtrit]

Remember when the world was going to end when gas went from $0.89/gal to $1.89/gal almost overnight in 1999! I thought it would. Today gas is $3.29 and I don’t bat an eye, though I now drive more efficient cars than I did then.

 

[brianl703]

On the other side of the coin is that there are no pockets in coffins. When you get in a save your mentality, it's hard to spend it. There's a happy middle point but it's hard to find.

I am reminded of when my 80-year-old mother told me that I should give her the money for a new car because "you can't take it with you".

She got quite a bit of of money from my dad in the divorce, and certainly took that attitude with it. Now she has almost nothing of it left, save for a house she's paid off (and heaven forbid that she discover what a reverse-mortgage is...)

 

[JeffKeryk]

Wow, lotsa comments here... My original gripe was, there should be some quality, lower cost options. Heck, Mustangs were under $3K when they came out. VW bugs were under $2K I think; earlier ones even less. And they ran and ran.

Sometimes I think car companies refuse to make strippies because there is less profit. Of course, they are not in the business of being our friend; they are in the business of making a profit and maximizing the wealth of their shareholders.
Just my 2 cents...

 

[SeanE]

Almost all cars will depreciate to near worthless after just a few years. Rode in a coworkers 2022 Accord Touring 2.0T yesterday, honestly a really nice car. But for $500 a month for 6 years? I don’t see it a worthy upgrade over my 2013 Camry XLE. Besides the Accord having ventilated seats and adaptive suspension, both cars have leather, heated power seats with rear air vents, a backup camera, a sunroof and after I added an aftermarket headunit, both have Apple CarPlay. The Accord also has a bunch of crap I don’t care about, like automatic emergency braking and the other “active safety” stuff.

The point I’m trying to get at, is a 10 year old car is only missing a few features compared to a new model, and the 10 year old model is a better buy. Anyone who buys a new model in my opinion, falls into a trap of getting into debt because society says “you must have a new car”. By the time you pay off that new car, it’ll be worth half or less what you payed all that money for. So I’m my opinion (i’m no financial advisor) saving up and buying a well maintained reliable used car full price will always be better than the bank owning your “new” at the time car until you’ve paid more than it’s worth.

It’s better a used car and a personal mortgage than a new car and an apartment. You’re only trying to impress others who don’t care when you show off a new car. Property will always be a better use for money as they can actually appreciate unlike almost any car.
But hey, what do I l know? I’m 20 years old and just getting started.

Have a good day everyone

 

[SC Maintenance]

The point I’m trying to get at, is a 10 year old car is only missing a few features compared to a new model, and the 10 year old model is a better buy. Anyone who buys a new model in my opinion, falls into a trap of getting into debt because society says “you must have a new car”. By the time you pay off that new car, it’ll be worth half or less what you payed all that money for. So I’m my opinion (i’m no financial advisor) saving up and buying a well maintained reliable used car full price will always be better than the bank owning your “new” at the time car until you’ve paid more than it’s worth.

It’s better a used car and a personal mortgage than a new car and an apartment. You’re only trying to impress others who don’t care when you show off a new car. Property will always be a better use for money as they can actually appreciate unlike almost any car.
But hey, what do I l know? I’m 20 years old and just getting started.

Have a good day everyone

You can pay cash for a new car as well. Many people do. I do. Just saying.

 

[SeanE]

You can pay cash for a new car as well. Many people do. I do. Just saying.

If you can afford it, then good on you. My point was if you have a car payment and live in an apartment, then in my opinion, you’re not focusing on what’s actually important.

 

[Cdn17Sport6MT]

I will defend the Yugo. They are Fiats. the are FUN to drive and very capable and stable at super legal interstate speeds. Fantastic, bullet proof engine designed by famed Ferrari engineer Aurelio Lampredi. They are light, unibody cars no worse than a Fiesta or Escort or Alliance or Rabbit. If you know the care and feeding of a Fiat you would be fine. Only Secondary rocker switch gear was a bit of a snap together -snap apart affair. Seats could be a bit better. No syncromesh 1st gear confused some inexperienced drivers.

Yugo didn't export the cars per-se M. Bricklen, Subaru importer pulled massive Gov't strings and imported them. Then he gave them an unfortunate name rather than the Native Zastava.

View attachment 147758View attachment 147759

Hey, I wouldn't be embarrassed to drive one. I like plain, simple, stupid... if it has a "joi de vivre" drive sense... The Italians say "piacerre guidare"... and most Italian cars have it...

 

[leadcounsel]

The evolution of cars with built in short lifespans is the trend following the push for cheaper appliances that don't last as long. The prices go up, complexities increase, repairs are not cost effective, and lifespans go down.

Growing up a refrigerator was 1 week salary, and could be expected to last 3-5 decades. Same with washing machines, driers, dishwashers, etc. How about TVs. Used to last 30-40 years. Now, 5 years and they burn out.

Now the prices are staggeringly high, and lifecycles around 5-10 years. A new nice refrigerator is about a months salary for the average person and can be expected to last about a decade. We live in a disposable and unsustainable system. The auto market has been moving in this direction for decades and the EV platform is perfect for their goals. Very high profit and mandatory short life cycles. Just look at anything you use that has a large lithium battery - phones, laptops, power tools, etc.

Just more ways to be a slave to the consumerism system so folks are on the constant "new car" purchase lifestyle. By eliminating all those easy to maintain long-lived gasoline cars and trucks.

 

[JeffKeryk]

Almost all cars will depreciate to near worthless after just a few years. Rode in a coworkers 2022 Accord Touring 2.0T yesterday, honestly a really nice car. But for $500 a month for 6 years? I don’t see it a worthy upgrade over my 2013 Camry XLE. Besides the Accord having ventilated seats and adaptive suspension, both cars have leather, heated power seats with rear air vents, a backup camera, a sunroof and after I added an aftermarket headunit, both have Apple CarPlay. The Accord also has a bunch of crap I don’t care about, like automatic emergency braking and the other “active safety” stuff.

The point I’m trying to get at, is a 10 year old car is only missing a few features compared to a new model, and the 10 year old model is a better buy. Anyone who buys a new model in my opinion, falls into a trap of getting into debt because society says “you must have a new car”. By the time you pay off that new car, it’ll be worth half or less what you payed all that money for. So I’m my opinion (i’m no financial advisor) saving up and buying a well maintained reliable used car full price will always be better than the bank owning your “new” at the time car until you’ve paid more than it’s worth.

It’s better a used car and a personal mortgage than a new car and an apartment. You’re only trying to impress others who don’t care when you show off a new car. Property will always be a better use for money as they can actually appreciate unlike almost any car.
But hey, what do I l know? I’m 20 years old and just getting started.

Have a good day everyone

Good points. I drove used Toyota strippie pickups and Hondas forever. Paid off my house. Now I can buy any car I want.

 

[emmett442]

Exactly. Well said. And it's only going to get worse as the new vehicle prices climb-and the price of used (i.e. beaters) climb as well. The "the world is going to you know where in a handbasket" because of car payments is the new "thick vs. Thin" on here and is getting just as repetitious!

According to the post above (boarding on a personal attack I may add). I'm not a bright bulb. OK sure. I retired at 55 years of age (due to Real Estate investments)-I got two automobiles collectively worth $70,000.00-sitting in my garage-and just got off a 74 day Grand South America cruise.

Yea sure......

A number of us do well for ourselves, while still being capable of making sense of all of this.

You're a step behind, bud.

 

[demarpaint]

Insanity.

The first house Sue and I bought, and a nice one too, had a 30 year fixed at $600 a month, $5K down.

Scott

LOL my first house was under $35K, needed a ton of work and turned out to be the best investment I ever made. Car prices today, insane, yes, in fact that's an understatement. As long as people are willing to pay the insane prices the insanity will continue. Yes, cars get stolen, or totaled and have to be replaced, and people can unfortunately can get screwed when their back is against the wall. It's the people who buy cars because they want the latest and greatest, are trying to impress someone, etc. and are willing to pay the insane prices, they're keeping prices high. Bottom line if a person falls into that category and is willing to pay those prices they shouldn't complain.

 

[eljefino]

An interesting quandry I found when looking for SUV's in 2019, for example a 10 year old Highlander had about the same cargo space and cabin dimensions as a new Rav4. The Highlander did have 3rd row, but beyond that not a lot different. So if someone has a 10 year old Highlander, and trades it in for a new Highlander, there actually not just getting new, there upgrading size by quite a bit.

Same with trim levels. The second or third highest trim levels now have the same amenities as a limited 10 years ago.

So I wonder if anyone besides me evaluates there actual needs, or they just trade like for like?

This is called the "Thunderbird effect." They made a cute 2-seater from 1955-57 then decided, well, we love the car, but let's make it longer and add a rear seat.

The Mustang then bulked up so much they made the Mustang II.

Whatever focus groups they do, find that people are getting fatter, have more junk, and want more room. Seems like only the Miata and Prius have escaped this embiggening.

 

[ARCOgraphite]

Depends on your area. If you live in a young professionals area, like Austin, they are probably young tech workers.

They are cheap. My buddy has a 750 Li xDrive twin-turbo V8. Paid $12K for it a couple years ago with some miles on it. We discussed it. BMW was on the hook (class action) for engine issue through 125K miles IIRC. He also bought a good extended service contract. Now he drives a top of the line, good looking 89,000 dollar executive jet for the price of a very used Camry. Most of the BMW around here - driven by kids - are pretty old ( 10 years) and pretty cheap used. Just like most MB, no big resale value off warranty unless certified, or AMG or M cars or a Geländewagen

Same year and model as buddy's car:

 

[jeepman3071]

I'll admit for me it is more of a justifying the cost vs. want type of scenario. I could buy a new car tomorrow, but I don't really like new cars. Maybe working in the tech field has soured my opinion of cars filled with gadgets, but after staring at multiple computer screens all day the last thing I want to do on my drive home is toggle through a bunch of menus in an infotainment system to turn on my heated seat. I'm a driving enthusiast, I like shifting gears, steering feedback on a nice curvy road, and appreciating the sound of my BMW's inline six. Many new cars are mind numbingly boring, and honestly quite ugly for me to justify dropping the cash. I almost have a few times, but nothing stood out to me enough to be "better" than what I currently have. I'm sure I'm in the minority, and feel fortunate that I have a problem that is more about taste than affordability, but even when I see a new pickup truck for $80k, I instead think about how many cooler classic pickups I could buy for that money that I would like more.

 

[jeepman3071]

They are cheap. My buddy has a 750 Li xDrive twin-turbo V8. Paid $12K for it a couple years ago with some miles on it. We discussed it. BMW was on the hook (class action) for engine issue through 125K miles IIRC. He also bought a good extended service contract. Now he drives a top of the line, good looking 89,000 dollar executive jet for the price of a very used Camry. Most of the BMW around here - driven by kids - are pretty old ( 10 years) and pretty cheap used. Just like most MB, no big resale value off warranty unless certified, or AMG or M cars or a Geländewagen

Same year and model as buddy's car:

View attachment 147896

Yep, they are cheap and the more expensive problematic models usually sell for even less. You can usually tell when you see a young kid driving a clapped out twin turbo 5-series that is smoking. I work on my own BMW and family/friends' BMWs as a hobby, and because of that I've had people refer their friends to me, and it is always a disaster. I feel bad, but it is usually a young kid who bought a "too good to be true" cheap BMW that needs a laundry list of stuff and they had no idea. If you buy a 6-cylinder one and maintain it, they can be great cars, if you buy a v8/v10/v12 car that isn't maintained it will bankrupt most people.

 

[GON]

Many reports point to the devaluation/ printing of the USD as the reason for the 50k average new car price. The theory is the price of new vehicles have not significantly gone up, the buying power of the USD has significantly been reduced.

Academics report the USD devaluation started in the early 1970s. These same academics say one should compare the Roman empire's devaluation of their currency, to what is happening to the USD since the early 1970s.

 

[odie]

High gas prices were enough to go small ( lower payments and gas fills ) . That was in '79 until this day and beyond . Oil is now $76 . Gas is over $3.50 . This doesn't include the increase when summer blend arrives . Usually tacks on 15 cents or so .

 

[ATex7239]

Lot of depreciation talk going on…

What happened to none of anyone’s business what people do with their money? Only applicable when we agree with the choices I guess.