Auto-Rx maintenance dose...

[BarkerMan]

I'm starting a maintenance dose test but I will use 4 ounces not 3 ounces.

Volvo 1996 Turbo 186k miles carefully maintained.
Commute aprox 360 miles a week to and from work 4 days a week
San Diego, good weather (no cold white stuff, ever)

OCI 5k miles since new, car purchased new. Have complete maintenance records. No work other than routing maintenance.

The owner of this car is the kind of person that might use the product, one that cares for a car and does not trade one in every 3 to 5 years.

The main goal is to see if the car gets better mileage in a commute that is repeated every week and the car is not usually driven on week ends or use for any other use.

I plan to repeat this test on one or two other vehicles as well, which will be posted.

 

[Steve S]

I use a 4oz maint dose in my 2006 4 cyk Toyota truck I don't notice any difference .But with a cleaning dose I don't know if there is a mpg increase but the engine seems smoother ,peppier and quieter.

 

[Louie's gone fishing]

Based on this site I'm going to try a 4oz maintenance dose. I have a question. What would be the steps to get the most accurate fuel mileage numbers. I can use the same pump at the same gas station and fill up at the same time on any day. Would putting the nozzle in the same way and stopping at the first click be the best way? That way you don't have to worry about the tank being right up to the top and loosing a bit later if the day warms up and your car is parked in the sunlight. Would an average over three tanks be enough?

 

[jaj]

Originally Posted By: BarkerMan
I'm starting a maintenance dose test but I will use 4 ounces not 3 ounces.


So, is the maintenance dose the same regardless of the sump size or is it a "1/2 ounce per quart" kind of measure?

 

[GROUCHO MARX]

"So, is the maintenance dose the same regardless of the sump size or is it a "1/2 ounce per quart" kind of measure?"
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I think Frank has always said 3 oz. I use 4 or more so as not to chintz.

 

[jaj]

Originally Posted By: GROUCHO MARX
"So, is the maintenance dose the same regardless of the sump size or is it a "1/2 ounce per quart" kind of measure?"
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I think Frank has always said 3 oz. I use 4 or more so as not to chintz.


Even with a 10-quart sump?

 

[Rick20]

IMO, 4 fluid ounces used as a maintenance dose performs better than 3 ounces in a average sump, which I will equate to 5 quarts.

jaj, I would think that maximum performance in a 10 quart system would likely be about 8 fluid ounces. This is not to say that 4 fluid ounces wouldn't be a good addition to the 10 quart sump, but in this case a bit more would be better.

Oil analysis with the maintenance dose over at ARX shows reduced wear metals in extended drains. But the real beauty from running the maintenance dose is retarding the formation of engine deposits in the future.

 

[kgb007stb]

This is a copy/paste from another thread, 3oz maintenance dose over 60K miles.

Jan 2005 (40k)

Mph rpm Co2 O2 HC CO NO

15, 1930, 15.0, 0.1, 5, 0.00, 42
25, 1914, 15.0, 0.1, 5, 0.00, 0

Jan 2008 (100k)

15, 2016, 15.0, 0.0, 3, 0.00, 0
25, 1983, 15.0, 0.0, 2, 0.00, 0

HCs are raw unburned fuel, that makes sense as it is hard to get a complete combustion. I forget how NOx gasses get created, but the only variable was a full clean/rinse at 36K when I bought the car, steady 10K OCI with 3oz maintenance dose.

In my other older cars it was usually the NOx gasses that made me fail emissions. This is a first time that I saw 0s in the HC column for a vehicle with more than 100K miles.

Mainly stop and go, heavy traffic, city driving.

 

[BarkerMan]

I'm going to start a couple of more 4 ounce maintenance doses. I think that in my recent experience with Auto-Rx there is a threshold that gets met with the 4 ounce does as opposed to the current 3 ounce dose. I've had several discussions with Frank Miller and he agrees that we may be on to something. The three ounce dose works but it may be that the 4 ounce does works better than would be indicated by just adding a bit more. I will have some mileage numbers on the first car, the Volvo with the turbo and the other cars will be a 4Runner with a V8, an Odyssey and a Honda Civic. I'm also going to try an include a Fit that is used for delivering documents and it driven really hard.

I also have some numbers coming on wear numbers on a brand new Fit that was hit with 4 ounces at less than 100 miles. The uoa was done at less than 50 miles and we will get one at 1000 miles and one at 5000 miles.

 

[PW01]

Keep us posted! I'm about 1200 miles from my next OCI, which also means my next maintenance dose - been using the recommended 3 ounces.

 

[glennc]

Wasn't the recommended dose once only 2oz?

Seems to me that 4oz is starting to get very expensive.

 

[badtlc]

Originally Posted By: glennc
Wasn't the recommended dose once only 2oz?

Seems to me that 4oz is starting to get very expensive.


My thoughts too. At what point is this becoming a money grab?

 

[Saturn_Fan]

Hate to be negative on the ARX, but yes, upping the ounces needed can get real expensive IMHO. I don't do the maintenance dose as I am happy with just running one bottle through. If I want to skip maintenance dose, I can just add another bottle down the road sometime.

 

[Rick20]

I am waiting to see the results that Barkerman provides us with.
As far as a money grab, I don't see it that way. I am told most people purchase multiple bottles of ARX and take advantage of the generous volume discounts. At $1.66 per fluid ounce of ARX, if 4 fluid ounces shows me more than what has been documented on the 3 ounce applications, then I guess I'll have to check under the couch pillows to anti-up that extra fluid ounce.

 

[Saturn_Fan]

I see your point, but on someone who has 3 cars, that is 5 bucks per ounce more. That is considerable when factoring in oil, filter, and the uppage of ARX needed.

Then again, I haven't heard Frank comment on this quite yet, so I must reserve judgment until then.

 

[glennc]

Originally Posted By: Rick20
At $1.66 per fluid ounce of ARX, if 4 fluid ounces shows me more than what has been documented on the 3 ounce applications, then I guess I'll have to check under the couch pillows to anti-up that extra fluid ounce.

$1.66 isn't that bad, you're right - although it all adds up of course: even at that price four ounces is about as expensive as an entire extra quart of Red Line oil with every change. Still, it stands to reason that every car would be different. I'd be inclined to start with a lower dose and increase it if necessary, but the problem with that approach is the same as with any additive: how do you measure performance when you are talking about very small changes, which happen very slowly? In my case A-RX didn't make a difference in the first place (don't know why; it's been beaten to death here; my conclusion is the engine stayed clean by itself), so I've decided the appropriate maintenance dose is zero ounces. But if I ever have another car that gains "keeper" status I'll probably try it again, and in that case the difference between 2oz and 4oz every OCI will be something I'll have to consider carefully.

By the way what volume do you have to buy to get down to $1.66/oz?

 

[BarkerMan]

The idea of upping the dose is responding to testing and user experience. This has been a strong point with Auto-Rx. You can get in touch with the architect of the product an ask questions and share information. You will get information based on the technical merits of the product not a marketing pitch. The three ounce does works but if the four ounce dose works better then I want to chase it and see what comes of it. Instead of going into projected fuel mileage and increased engine life and numbers that can be chased around in a circle lets look at the maintenance from a different angle. I have no test data but would like to throw out an idea. It appears with my limited experience that one could buy a conventional oil and dose it up with Auto-Rx and get better lubrication without going to a synthetic oil. I'm doing just that with Delo 400, a diesel grade oil in my Datsun wagon with a highly modified engine. A friend is using Amsoil ACD with Auto-Rx instead of one of the more expensive Amsoil choices. The guy next door went from Mobil 1 to Mobil Clean with Auto-Rx. He is vary happy with results. It's just an idea and data from one of these switches will be the subject of an upcoming thread.

 

[badtlc]

Originally Posted By: BarkerMan
The idea of upping the dose is responding to testing and user experience. This has been a strong point with Auto-Rx. You can get in touch with the architect of the product an ask questions and share information. You will get information based on the technical merits of the product not a marketing pitch. The three ounce does works but if the four ounce dose works better then I want to chase it and see what comes of it. Instead of going into projected fuel mileage and increased engine life and numbers that can be chased around in a circle lets look at the maintenance from a different angle. I have no test data but would like to throw out an idea. It appears with my limited experience that one could buy a conventional oil and dose it up with Auto-Rx and get better lubrication without going to a synthetic oil. I'm doing just that with Delo 400, a diesel grade oil in my Datsun wagon with a highly modified engine. A friend is using Amsoil ACD with Auto-Rx instead of one of the more expensive Amsoil choices. The guy next door went from Mobil 1 to Mobil Clean with Auto-Rx. He is vary happy with results. It's just an idea and data from one of these switches will be the subject of an upcoming thread.


I have already done that because of $$$ and OCI length. THe last thing I want to do is now start paying more than I was for a fully synthetic oil change and get less miles out of it.

 

[Louie's gone fishing]

My brother and his wife rented a mobile home for vacation. It's a GM chassis with a big block gas engine. The rented it for the winter to escape the cold weather. The got a reduced rate because the rented it for three months and agreed to do the minor maintenance, change oil, check things off a list and other minor stuff. They were told to use Delo 400 15w-40 and there were 6 gallon jugs on board plus oil filters. It smoked a bit and pinged a lot. They ran two pints of Chevron ProGuard gas additive through it and added a maintenance dose of 6 ounces of Auto-Rx to the oil. Over the first leg from Chicago to Georgia the pinging disappeared and the smoking on start up was reduced to just about nothing. As the miles added up the engine continued to perform better and run smoother. They changed the oil at the start with 6 ounces and again at 2,500 miles along with the standard 3 ounces of Auto-Rx and again after another 2,500 miles with 3 ounces toward the end of the trip. When that stopped at my home the engine was running like new. You could see the stains on the back of the rig where engine smoke had accumulated but it was not smoking any more. They claimed the rig pulled up the hills better as the miles added up and they got better mileage, from terrible to just bad and they went from premium to regular. My brother thinks he got his money back in better mileage alone. He is now a believer.

 

[Dyoel182]

Originally Posted By: glennc
Wasn't the recommended dose once only 2oz?


Hence why I still just use the 2oz per oil change. I keep saying the old instructions were fine and the upped amount makes me think of that stride gum commercial where they are begging people to spit out their first piece and use more.