The instructions do not call for emptying out the new ATF that goes in after the ARX treated fluid is removed through T-Tec. Why is that? With an engine the biggest part of the crud is supposedly removed in the rinse phase--and apparently really needs to be removed. Is there something about the cleaning method with transmissions that differs than the cleaning method with engines? I guess I have the same question as to the ARX application for power steering systems. I realize an engine will likely have more contamination than a transmission or power steering system, but wouldn't you still want to get rid of the rinse fluid after a relatively short interval?
Auto-rx: How come no tranny rinse phase?
- Thread starter LubeRube
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T-Tec is suppose to remove 98% of the old fluid, so you dont have any AutoRX left over. Im not sure if that was your question or not, but sorry if it wasnt.
I was thinking the same thing and had the same question. Seems to me that all that nice new clean fluid would be getting pretty dirty as it slowy rinses all that gunk that was softened by the ARX. Sounds to me that either a second transmission flush would be needed or the installation of a bypass tranny filter.
Let me guess...
No combustion gasses or by-products to deal with, no unburnt gasoline. No airflow.
Unless one somehow failed to notice that the tranny fluid was drastically low, had been burnt to a crisp prior to the addition of the Auto-Rx, or was somehow polluted with motor oil, anti-freeze, Slick50, etc. (i.e. assuming it was in good condition at the time of installation), apparantly a single evacuation of the old fluid and filter takes care of the installation.
Frank?
No combustion gasses or by-products to deal with, no unburnt gasoline. No airflow.
Unless one somehow failed to notice that the tranny fluid was drastically low, had been burnt to a crisp prior to the addition of the Auto-Rx, or was somehow polluted with motor oil, anti-freeze, Slick50, etc. (i.e. assuming it was in good condition at the time of installation), apparantly a single evacuation of the old fluid and filter takes care of the installation.
Frank?
But Norm, why should the fact that a transmission is a magnitude or two lower in dirtiness than an engine alter the cleaning principle behind ARX? The ARX people repeatedly state that the rinse phase is where most of the contamination removal takes place--at least for engines. So why would we want that contamination flowing (liquified or not) through our transmissions for the next 20,000 plus miles?
Some place on the web I've seen an explanation for that. IIRC, it had something to do with there being less glop in a transmissiona and the glop being different.
I thought I had seen it on Franks tranmission site but but can't find it there now.
Transmission Fluid is a high viscosity base hydraulic oil (ISO 68)plus whatever additive package manufacture wants to use.Auto-Rx at 6 ounces in any transmission is all this thin oil can carry (no need for more Auto-Rx or second clean or rinse no matter how many quarts of transmission fluid )Transmission-Power Steering all use ISO 68 there is no combustion gases (read post above by Norm Olt)Auto-Rx Application Instructions are correct for cleaning these units.
Transmission -Power Steering Seal Leaks use a non synthetic fluid and after cleaning unit put some miles on as chemistry of non synthetic fluid will help stop seal leaks.
Transmission -Power Steering Seal Leaks use a non synthetic fluid and after cleaning unit put some miles on as chemistry of non synthetic fluid will help stop seal leaks.
MolaKule
Staff member
Apologize here for being nitpicky, but most ATF is ISO 32/46 viscosity. Some PSF's are ISO 68 (30 weight) but most are also ISO 32/46.
Norm Olt is spot on !
I have found now after many 6 ounce Auto-RX AT's treatments that most healthy AT's don't need anything done after application. The stuff stays in suspension and cleans and lubes quite nicely with no fluid or filter change. Most of the time a noticeable improvement in operation and shift is mentioned.
[ March 11, 2004, 02:59 PM: Message edited by: Terry ]
I have found now after many 6 ounce Auto-RX AT's treatments that most healthy AT's don't need anything done after application. The stuff stays in suspension and cleans and lubes quite nicely with no fluid or filter change. Most of the time a noticeable improvement in operation and shift is mentioned.
[ March 11, 2004, 02:59 PM: Message edited by: Terry ]
Terry, I've got a co-worker who wants to run A-Rx in his Acura tranny. The only thing stopping him is his concern that the A-Rx might create some kind of problem because of the "special fluid" required for this unit. He's checked around for a T-Tec place, & all the shops he's talked to (two or three) have said they don't do Acura trannies 'cuz they require special handling. He's also looked on the Legend BB but didn't find anything regarding tranny use of A-Rx.
In other words, he's not worried about A-Rx properly mixing with the fluid or cleaning the tranny, but he's worried that the introduction of A-Rx into his "delicate" tranny might create a "fluid incompatability" (for lack of a better term) which will cause greater problems down the line. He's also worried that since he can't find a T-Tec place, he won't get enough of the A-Rx out on his own when he's done with the cleaning.
Do you have any experience with Acura tranny applications?
In other words, he's not worried about A-Rx properly mixing with the fluid or cleaning the tranny, but he's worried that the introduction of A-Rx into his "delicate" tranny might create a "fluid incompatability" (for lack of a better term) which will cause greater problems down the line. He's also worried that since he can't find a T-Tec place, he won't get enough of the A-Rx out on his own when he's done with the cleaning.
Do you have any experience with Acura tranny applications?
I've seen it used in the Honda trans which is probably ( I'm not sure) trans with no problems, they don't hold much so I would start with 3 ounces. They also have only a wire screen filter so the RX is perfect in that application and will disperse and clean quite nicely.
IF Auto-RX impacts the FM characterists of the Honda/Acura fluid it will be to make it too slick and a simple drain and refill would take care of that easily.
If the trans is really dirty a 6 ounce dose is in order but only add the extra 3 ounces if the first 3 are not sufficient.
Enjoy the cleaned and revitalized trans !
Sample the fluid to get a good look at what it needs to be sure.
Terry
IF Auto-RX impacts the FM characterists of the Honda/Acura fluid it will be to make it too slick and a simple drain and refill would take care of that easily.
If the trans is really dirty a 6 ounce dose is in order but only add the extra 3 ounces if the first 3 are not sufficient.
Enjoy the cleaned and revitalized trans !
Sample the fluid to get a good look at what it needs to be sure.
Terry
Terry... are you saying just dump the Rx in the trans and DO NOT change the fluid after xxx miles?
I'm in the exact same situation as your friend. I also have an AT Acura and wanted to put ARX in. However, a problem is that you can't drop the pan and change the filters on Acura/Honda trannies.
When I called several Acura Dealerships, they recommended against using the T-Tech process, and instead recommended a "triple flush"
However, if Terry says I can leave it in, I just may.
I just ran ARX in my 88 Acura Legend. I am doing a triple or quadruple flush instead of T-Tec (although the Acura dealer says no problem with T-Tec--they do them in fact). No problems encountered, but then I can't for sure say I noticed any improvement either.
I still would like a straight answer to my original question instead of the usual "just follow the instructions and you'll be fine." Why doesn't the fresh ATF that is put in after the ARX run cause the same contamination loosening and transport effect that it is supposed to cause in an engine? What is different about the cleaning METHOD in a transmission?
I still would like a straight answer to my original question instead of the usual "just follow the instructions and you'll be fine." Why doesn't the fresh ATF that is put in after the ARX run cause the same contamination loosening and transport effect that it is supposed to cause in an engine? What is different about the cleaning METHOD in a transmission?
I am in favor of the double or triple dump after an ARX application in the tranny. Left over ARX left in the system is not a problem. Dumping the pan usually will remove about one third of the volume. I would do the dumps in 1500 mile interval on the first, then the second, or third in 5000 mile runs. I think the one third dumps are better than running a T-Tech. Those machines put alot of pressure on seals. Much more so than the sytem in drive running.
In essence by this approach you have done a rinse.
The worn out ATF, is much different than what accumulates in the crankcase of the motor. Its basically a sealed unit. The motor has hugh outside influence, combustion contaminants, moisture, dirt and dust.
In essence by this approach you have done a rinse.
The worn out ATF, is much different than what accumulates in the crankcase of the motor. Its basically a sealed unit. The motor has hugh outside influence, combustion contaminants, moisture, dirt and dust.
Rick, thanks for the reply. Let me try and express this another way: Just stating the obvious fact that the contaminants in a transmission are different than those in an engine does not answer the question of why a rinse phase that is the main cleaning phase in the engine procedure is not even called for in the transmission procedure. Noting that there is no blow by in a transmission, etc., etc. really doesn't get to it.
LubeRube,
Frank has said several times that the rinse phase of an engine doesn't do any cleaning. He says the fresh oil splashing against the remaining deposits is simply a mechanical method of "wiping off" what's been softened by the A-Rx. Since the tranny's a closed system, perhaps the circulation path/pressure does a good enough job of removing any deposits during the application phase, & all that needs to be done is remove whatever contaminants have been placed into solution.
Have you posted this question directly on Auto-Rx's Forum?
Frank has said several times that the rinse phase of an engine doesn't do any cleaning. He says the fresh oil splashing against the remaining deposits is simply a mechanical method of "wiping off" what's been softened by the A-Rx. Since the tranny's a closed system, perhaps the circulation path/pressure does a good enough job of removing any deposits during the application phase, & all that needs to be done is remove whatever contaminants have been placed into solution.
Have you posted this question directly on Auto-Rx's Forum?
Luberube, Rick does answer your question but let me put it in my words, the contamination levels, type, and SIZE are different in the closed system of a trans, SO because of all those factors Auto-RX doesn't have to continue cleaning residuals because they are either SAFELY cleaned up and trapped in the filter or have been solubilized into particle sizes that are SAFELY carried in the Micel of the RX. Whereas the level of CARBON contamination in an internal combustion engine lends itself to needing a rinse phase for more complete cleaning.
Auto-RX will clean and continue to clean until the level of contaminantes or the level of RX degrades to some level (whatever that is).
i.e., varnish in a trans is not the same as coking in a engine.
Hope that helps you understand.
Auto-RX will clean and continue to clean until the level of contaminantes or the level of RX degrades to some level (whatever that is).
i.e., varnish in a trans is not the same as coking in a engine.
Hope that helps you understand.
Terry,
You said,
"varnish in a trans is not the same as coking in a engine."
Is varnish what we're trying to clean out of our transmissions when we use ARX? In the FAQ on the ARX website Frank said that varnish is nothing more than "a cosmetic stain" that does not affect the performance of an engine. You imply that is there something materially different about transmission varnish and that we need to get rid of it. Please comment.
LubeRube
You said,
"varnish in a trans is not the same as coking in a engine."
Is varnish what we're trying to clean out of our transmissions when we use ARX? In the FAQ on the ARX website Frank said that varnish is nothing more than "a cosmetic stain" that does not affect the performance of an engine. You imply that is there something materially different about transmission varnish and that we need to get rid of it. Please comment.
LubeRube
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